Delphi, we have a problem.

[DreamTheaterRules]

While not getting into any debates, I have a few points to make in response to some of the posts:

Why Do So Many "World Organizations" Have A Flat Earth Map As Their Logo?

Have you ever tried to take and use your globe in the car for directions when on vacation? It just doesn't work. The flat, foldable map is a much more convenient format when traveling.

It Was Said Earlier That The Firmament Doesn't Exist And There Is No Evidence Of It. The Firmament Is Mentioned In The Bible Several Times.

The issue here is the thought that it is some hard barrier. That is not what it means in the Bible.

It doesn't contradict science so long as you take things like the firmament as allegory. Objectively, we have never seen any evidence of a dome structure encompassing the Earth. There is certainly no physical evidence to suggest it's existence. If it was there, we'd know about it.

See previous comment, and if you want to know what it means, look up the Greek word it was translated from and the context. Prior to this thread, I've never even heard of anyone who thought or implied that it was some hard barrier.

I'll say it again, there is ZERO evidence of a dome-like structure encompassing the Earth, and I can say that with confidence. Think of it like this...we have millions of pictures of the globe Earth from space. You can say Earth photos are fake, but all we need is ONE to be real and flat earth and firmament theories are done. Flat Earth researchers have, in all this time, amassed ZERO pictures or videos of the firmament.

see previous comment

Edit: I Love All You Knuckleheads Even If You Don't Like Me.

Even DreamTheater???

And one more: I said this in a previous thread here. One doesn't need ANY science books or even the Bible (which confirmed the earth was a sphere centuries before anyone had the means of traveling far enough to verify it) to prove that the earth is round. I have verified it WITH MY OWN EYES more than once. So, no matter what ANY other source said to the contrary, I have SEEN proof with my own eyes. If you want to know just how easy that is, I offer the same two examples I did the last time this topic came up.

#1- I have been up in the Sears Tower both after dark, and during a bright sunny afternoon. In both instances, it was clear to the naked eye (and even more clear with binoculars, which I had both times) that the objects you see on the earth are visible UP UNTIL the point where they fade over a horizon. If the earth was flat, you could see as far as... well, you could see and identify things, but it would be clear that the land kept going and you just couldn't see well enough to identify things but the ground/earth was still there. That's not what happens! You can see WAY far away, until things fade over the horizon. That alone could mean that there is a valley or change to lower altitude in that direction. But when you look in every direction, including out over the lake, and in EVERY direction, you can see as far as until things fade over the horizon and from that point on you can't see ANYTHING past that point in ANY direction. This proves that at least from the spot on the earth that you are at, that every direction around you is rounded. So that leaves some small possibility that is answered for sure by #2...

#2- Ever been in a jet and flown anywhere? I have. Not a lot, and not all the way around the globe. But you don't have to fly far, to verify that everything I said in #1 also applies while you are in the air, and moving. So, you get WAY higher up than the Sears Tower, and you can see in every direction UP TO the point where the curvature of the earth makes it go out of your line of vision. But you are so much higher, it's even more clear. And here is the kicker... as you fly, that horizon keeps moving... As you fly one direction, you keep seeing more and farther in that direction, and what is behind you that you just saw, fades down below that horizon as you move forward. As the plane maintains an altitude level above the earth, it becomes clear that the plane is taking a circular path to stay at the same altitude, and that you are flying around a ball.

Sorry, these are things you can literally see as they happen. If there were 50/50 reliable sources divided on this topic, one trip of a hundred even miles, would clearly allow you to see the shape of the earth. While that wasn't the topic of this thread at first, it was brought up again. There is no "open your mind" or "listen to my side as well" on this topic. I've seen it CLEARLY with my own eyes more than once and it is incredibly undeniable. I have friends who were in the service and one friend who went to China a year ago, and they literally DID fly all the way around the world. At some point, if you go east or west long enough, you end up back where you started and that can only mean one thing. LOL

 

[Draconomics]

I’ve never taken the time to ask a flat-Earther about Coriolis effect or Hadley Cell theory. I wonder what they would say?

The ones I've asked straight up don't believe in Coriolis or Hadley Cells. They totally dismiss them as bunk.

 

[Draconomics]

I have been up in the Sears Tower both after dark, and during a bright sunny afternoon

Ok...this reminded me. There is a great observation you can do using tall buildings. So, flat earthers claim when the Sun sets, it only appears to. They say it reaches a vanishing point at which you cannot resolve the shape of the Sun anymore. However, you can debunk this.

Imagine being on the ground. You see the Sun set. Now, head into the tower, get as high as you can as fast as you can. What will happen is you will see the Sun set again. Your angle toward the horizon changes allowing you to see this. It's something anyone can do. There's even a song about it called "Two Sunsets" by Ludovico Einaudi.

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

Ok...this reminded me. There is a great observation you can do using tall buildings. So, flat earthers claim when the Sun sets, it only appears to. They say it reaches a vanishing point at which you cannot resolve the shape of the Sun anymore. However, you can debunk this.

Imagine being on the ground. You see the Sun set. Now, head into the tower, get as high as you can as fast as you can. What will happen is you will see the Sun set again. Your angle toward the horizon changes allowing you to see this. It's something anyone can do. There's even a song about it called "Two Sunsets" by Ludovico Einaudi.

I actually saw this the other way, from a jet. Watched the sun set, took off and as we got higher and higher, we saw the sun again, and it stayed JUST above the horizon as we continued to rise (Flying from south to north in this instance). Once we had been at cruising altitude for a while, the sun set again. (And, a sunset from 25,000 feet is a whole different thing! AWESOME!)

p.s. My boss flew to Vegas (from Cincinnati) two weeks ago. When he left Cincy, the sun had just set. In the air, it was back. When he got to Vegas, it was still up and set just a little while after he got there.

 

[Clashcityrocker]

While not getting into any debates, I have a few points to make in response to some of the posts:


Have you ever tried to take and use your globe in the car for directions when on vacation? It just doesn't work. The flat, foldable map is a much more convenient format when traveling.

The issue here is the thought that it is some hard barrier. That is not what it means in the Bible.

See previous comment, and if you want to know what it means, look up the Greek word it was translated from and the context. Prior to this thread, I've never even heard of anyone who thought or implied that it was some hard barrier.

see previous comment

Even DreamTheater???

And one more: I said this in a previous thread here. One doesn't need ANY science books or even the Bible (which confirmed the earth was a sphere centuries before anyone had the means of traveling far enough to verify it) to prove that the earth is round. I have verified it WITH MY OWN EYES more than once. So, no matter what ANY other source said to the contrary, I have SEEN proof with my own eyes. If you want to know just how easy that is, I offer the same two examples I did the last time this topic came up.

#1- I have been up in the Sears Tower both after dark, and during a bright sunny afternoon. In both instances, it was clear to the naked eye (and even more clear with binoculars, which I had both times) that the objects you see on the earth are visible UP UNTIL the point where they fade over a horizon. If the earth was flat, you could see as far as... well, you could see and identify things, but it would be clear that the land kept going and you just couldn't see well enough to identify things but the ground/earth was still there. That's not what happens! You can see WAY far away, until things fade over the horizon. That alone could mean that there is a valley or change to lower altitude in that direction. But when you look in every direction, including out over the lake, and in EVERY direction, you can see as far as until things fade over the horizon and from that point on you can't see ANYTHING past that point in ANY direction. This proves that at least from the spot on the earth that you are at, that every direction around you is rounded. So that leaves some small possibility that is answered for sure by #2...

#2- Ever been in a jet and flown anywhere? I have. Not a lot, and not all the way around the globe. But you don't have to fly far, to verify that everything I said in #1 also applies while you are in the air, and moving. So, you get WAY higher up than the Sears Tower, and you can see in every direction UP TO the point where the curvature of the earth makes it go out of your line of vision. But you are so much higher, it's even more clear. And here is the kicker... as you fly, that horizon keeps moving... As you fly one direction, you keep seeing more and farther in that direction, and what is behind you that you just saw, fades down below that horizon as you move forward. As the plane maintains an altitude level above the earth, it becomes clear that the plane is taking a circular path to stay at the same altitude, and that you are flying around a ball.

Sorry, these are things you can literally see as they happen. If there were 50/50 reliable sources divided on this topic, one trip of a hundred even miles, would clearly allow you to see the shape of the earth. While that wasn't the topic of this thread at first, it was brought up again. There is no "open your mind" or "listen to my side as well" on this topic. I've seen it CLEARLY with my own eyes more than once and it is incredibly undeniable. I have friends who were in the service and one friend who went to China a year ago, and they literally DID fly all the way around the world. At some point, if you go east or west long enough, you end up back where you started and that can only mean one thing. LOL

Last time I flew I looked for curvature and never saw it. Many will say they see it on planes but I never have. It's just in your mind. When you say that you can only see so far. That's just because you can only see so far with your normal eye. If you zoom in with a good camera you can see further. People have video'd land that would be too far to see if with globe curvature. There is many examples on youtube. There is also video of clouds behind the sun, the sun coming up through the clouds.

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

Last time I flew I looked for curvature and never saw it. Many will say they see it on planes but I never have. It's just in your mind.

Sorry. Not correct. If the earth were flat, and you sat well above it (even the Sears Tower example I used) you could just use more and more powerful binoculars or telescope and see further and further. That is not the case, because the earth curves which takes it out of your line of site.

I need you to explain something to me though. How is it that I can fly east, or west, and get to Japan either way? I know this is a silly waste of time to even ask questions like this, but how would YOU explain that? And, don't tell me it's not possible because I know people who have flown to the other side of the globe, and depending on where they left from, some went east and some went west. How do you explain that?

Further, if it's flat, where does it end? And, are you proposing that where it ends, you'd "fall off" if you go any further, like the ancient people believed?

 

[Clashcityrocker]

Think about this...if the earth is spinning with the atmosphere one way, You fly in a plane the other way. Wouldn't it take A LOT longer that way than the other way with the spin of the earth? That's a quick way to realize it's not spinning with the atmosphere. You notice when flying that the plane doesn't correct for a curved earth. Landind would be much harder on a spinning earth. They just fly like it's a flat plain you are on.

 

[markd21]

I do not belive anyone has been to the moon.

 

[markd21]

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

My cats' breath smells like tuna!!

 

[Bogner]

When People Fly To New Zealand And Australia, Etc From America How Do They Land Right Side Up? Wouldn't The Plane Have To Do Some Sort of A Barrel Roll To Make That Work? I Could See The Pretzels Flying Now!

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

When People Fly To New Zealand And Australia, Etc From America How Do They Land Right Side Up? Wouldn't The Plane Have To Do Some Sort of A Barrel Roll To Make That Work? I Could See The Pretzels Flying Now!

If you've ever flown "down under" you'd know that the barrel roll is one of the things most passengers most look forward too on the trip! That and the free Fosters!

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

Think about this...if the earth is spinning with the atmosphere one way, You fly in a plane the other way. Wouldn't it take A LOT longer that way than the other way with the spin of the earth? That's a quick way to realize it's not spinning with the atmosphere.

Actually, that would only make sense if the earth was spinning but the atmosphere WASN'T, or vice versa. If the atmosphere spins with the earth, then there would be virtually no difference in flying east vs. west. Which IS the case when flying. IF one or the other didn't spin, then the headwind/tailwind would be incredibly strong. Ha, too strong to safely take off or land in, and there would be NO outdoor life as a 1100mph breeze would make life outside untenable for any person and most plants. So... you're saying it's not round AND it's not spinning?

 

[Bogner]

Don't Forget...A Pizza Is "Round" And A Pizza Is Also "Flat" So Don't Get "Round" Mixed Up With "Globe." Flat Earth Could Very Easily Be Round And Not Be A Spinning "Globe."

 

[Clashcityrocker]

Well if you believe the atmosphere is spinning with the earth, If you flew in the direction of the spin you would have to travel a longer time because the atmosphere and earth would be with you. The other way you face higher windspeed, but a shorter distance because the earth is moving. Fun to think about huh? I've never noticed much difference either way other than the jet stream.

 

[Draconomics]

When People Fly To New Zealand And Australia, Etc From America How Do They Land Right Side Up? Wouldn't The Plane Have To Do Some Sort of A Barrel Roll To Make That Work? I Could See The Pretzels Flying Now!

Yeah, so...this is going to be a bit difficult to answer because you have to understand one basic concept: there is no such thing as a universal down. When I say something falls in a downward direction, it's falling with the direction of gravity, which in the case of our planet is towards the center of it core, more or less. This is why the direction of down in say...Sweden and down in Antarctica are technically going in opposite directions, but for people on the surface of these places there's no apparent difference. When a plane flies to the southern hemisphere, no barrel roll is required because it's always right side up with respect to the surface of the Earth. I apologize if this seems difficult to understand, but it's the truth.

Think about this...if the earth is spinning with the atmosphere one way, You fly in a plane the other way. Wouldn't it take A LOT longer that way than the other way with the spin of the earth? That's a quick way to realize it's not spinning with the atmosphere. You notice when flying that the plane doesn't correct for a curved earth. Landind would be much harder on a spinning earth. They just fly like it's a flat plain you are on.

Ok, so this is simple. Imagine you are a passenger in a train. Let's make it one of those bullet trains traveling at 200+mph. Guess what else is traveling that speed? Everything in the train and you as well. You can walk with the direction of the train, or against it, does not matter. You are not fighting the speed of the train. If you jump, you don't land in some other places, you will land pretty much in the same spot you took off from. This is a basic concept of motion. Planes can take off and land with ease, fly with the rotation or against it with no issue, because ALL things are traveling with the Earth, including the air they fly in. If the Earth quit spinning abruptly, we would all fly off toward the east at hundreds of mph, and splat across the land.

Another easy way to prove the Earth is rotating is with gold. Gold, being extremely valuable even in tiny amounts, can be affected by the rotation via its weight. It will weight slightly more at the poles than at the equator, meaning a difference in the overall price of a sample that in large amounts of gold would be substantial enough to take into acvount. On a flat earth, this would never be possible.

 

[Draconomics]

Don't Forget...A Pizza Is "Round" And A Pizza Is Also "Flat" So Don't Get "Round" Mixed Up With "Globe." Flat Earth Could Very Easily Be Round And Not Be A Spinning "Globe."

You are actually correct. Round is a property of both two and three dimensional objects. The thing is, the Earth has to be a three dimensional spherical object due to gravity. A flat disk that large would never be able to exist as gravity would always make it collapse upon itself...but, that's if you believe gravity exists. If you don't, well...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[bodia]

Damn, I'm getting some run outta these Pringles!

 

[Moondog Wily]

First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more no less. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shalt be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thou foe, who being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.

 

[Clashcityrocker]

But you aren't traveling with the earth's rotation. You're going in different directions. Not sure why you're not seeing this conundrum.

 

[RC Mike]

Well if you believe the atmosphere is spinning with the earth, If you flew in the direction of the spin you would have to travel a longer time because the atmosphere and earth would be with you. The other way you face higher windspeed, but a shorter distance because the earth is moving. Fun to think about huh? I've never noticed much difference either way other than the jet stream.

Have you ever flown to Hawaii? You'll notice that the flights to Hawaii are a bit longer than the flights from Hawaii.