How Famous Do I Need To Be...

[toothace]

UPDATE 2021: This weekend I went to a PRS Private Stock dealer and asked the serious question. Yes, I came to the place in my mind that I was willing to pay PRS between $10,000.00 to $13,000.00 if they would build me a caveman simple guitar design to the specifications which I would provide them. Basically, a Flying V guitar body design.

I got the call today, a few hours ago with the answer. It was a hard No, with no explanation provided.

I'm pi$$ed off. Like... someone just slapped me in the face pi$$ed off and visions of a gesture which was made famous by Stone Cold Steve Austin are swirling around in my mind. I'm sure I'll get over it but right now, it still stings. And for the record, I don't buy that whole copyright and not wanting to get sued bit. That doesn't apply to a one-off build that is commissioned by a customer. That's not how copyrights work (to the best of my understanding) and I don't think there is a chance in hell that Gibson would sue PRS over something like that, even if they had 20 customers who all wanted one of their own. We are not talking about a production guitar which a reasonable person might mistakenly buy, thinking that it was a Gibson product.

So the good news is that they just saved me thirteen thousand dollars by saying no. Last week, I did reach out to Gibson to ask them if their Custom Shop would build me a Flying V if I provided them the specs. They said yes... so long as I wasn't trying to modify any of their pre-made custom shop offerings from their current catalog. So yeah, I could do that and get it done for half of what PRS would have charged, but then again, Gibson is like the old girlfriend I dumped a long time ago and I just don't want to get back in bed with her again.

So for now, I guess I'll just calm the fork down and ponder my options. Maybe I can find a Hamer V somewhere.

Have you considered talking-to the guys at Texas Toast?

 

[Bookface]

I don't think that the effort requires any special CnC jobs at all. They already have everything they need to build a neck, let's say a McCarty 594 neck. They already have the CnC programing to route pickup holes, neck pocket and stuff into a S2 McCarty 594 Singlecut. The only thing they need to do different is cut the wood billet diagonally, flip the pieces around and glue them together to make a V body. No carving involved. If you want to get fancy, you could even add a 1/4" slab of Maple on top of the Mahogany V body and spray it with a natural edge. A far simpler design than what they usually make.

I think you're vastly underestimating the difficulty of making something completely different to what the production line usually makes. There's nothing simpler than making what the production line makes. Doing a complete one off would require a skilled luthier to handle the build from start to finish. There are other logistical problems. What if the CNC machines aren't large enough to accommodate a V style body when the pickups are in such a radically different place to normal? Someone then has to hand route everything. Someone would have to hand route the pickup controls anyway because they're in a completely different place to any PRS because of the body shape. I know it doesn't seem like much, but any time you take something off a production line and hand it to a skilled artisan you can expect costs to skyrocket. Essentially you offered the price of a relatively standard Private Stock for something completely unique.

Heck, it could also be that Paul doesn't like V's, and doesn't want his name on one. There are all kinds of reasons for them saying no, though like I said I get the frustration that they didn't actually tell you what they were.

 

[dogrocketp]

Unfortunately that is exactly how copyright works. Guitars shapes are of course on tricky legal ground when it comes to it because for years they enforced nothing but headstock designs, but if we're talking letter of the law, if it looks like a flying V to the average person then you're infringing Gibsons rights to the design. Would they sue over it? Like you say, probably not, but it would technically be an infringement.

It could also simply be that you didn't offer them enough money. A PS build starts at just over $9800. That's for something that they already have all the designs for, CNC programming, etc. A brand new, totally unique design they've never built before? And you know they wouldn't be happy with doing something that's just 'good enough'. The manager at my local store told me a story recently about a customer who wanted a left handed hollowbody before they'd ever made a leftie HB. They had no CNC programs or anything, and essentially Joe Knaggs would have had to hand carve the whole thing, and they gave a price over $30k. The guy didn't pay it, but I think that's representative of the kind of cost you're looking at to have PRS build you a complete one off, especially when you figure in the potential legal issues.

It sucks that they gave no explanation, but my guess would be it simply not being worth it financially for them.

Gibson and PRS have a bad legal history that I’m sure Paul doesn’t want to revisit even though Gibson would be happy to. The over $30k price? That’s called a go-away price by luthiers. In other words, I don’t want to make it, so I’ll give you a price that’s so high you’ll just go away.

 

[aphantomvaper]

Buy a guitar kit and try to put it together and have it look and sound good.

I did that, its not as easy as it seems even when all the parts are pre-fabbed.

Good luck! I know what its like pursuing what's in your heart.

 

[Bookface]

The over $30k price? That’s called a go-away price by luthiers. In other words, I don’t want to make it, so I’ll give you a price that’s so high you’ll just go away.

Oh absolutely. I've done it myself. Apparently though the customer in question was offered a really good deal on a singlecut instead, which was a new model that they were really pushing at the time. He was so annoyed that they gave him a stupid price on the HB and offered to make him a SC (i.e. totally different guitar) as an alternative that he has refused to have anything to do with PRS since.

 

[RickP]

I’d buy a used CE, strip the neck and electronics and have a luthier build a V body to suit. Sell the CE body as a “project guitar” to recoup some funds. Bam! A PRS V at a reasonable price.

Be the first on your block to own one!

 

[dogrocketp]

I had an offset V made 30 years ago. It was a pain in the ass on a small stage. I sold it to my best friend for peanuts. His widow still has it.

 

[HANGAR18]

A lot of very valid opinions here. Much appreciated! I've calmed down quite a bit. However, I feel I should mention that the same PRS PS dealer I mentioned previously also showed me a photo of a PRS made "Explorer" body style guitar. So, I KNOW they could do a V without any problem. Moot point now. That was the one and ONLY time I will ever ask them about it. As a matter of fact, if they came back and said, "Hey Danny, we changed our mind, we'll do it!", I'm done with the whole subject. No. That ship has sailed.

Used Hamer guitars? Not if the asking price is higher than a brand new PRS. I'm a player, not a collector.
Buy a PRS S2 and take a band saw and some Titebond III glue to the body? I have given that SERIOUS thought and haven't ruled that out yet.

So now I'm keeping a lookout for small, never-heard-of-them guitar builders, or maybe even guys who founded a guitar company and then sold it and no longer run the company which bears their namesake who still build guitars on the side. Maybe even that dude who builds Explorer bodied guitars for Hetfield. Heck, I'd buy a goddamn Epiphone V if they used solid wood, decent hardware and the same same truss rod as their mode expensive USA variants. I'm also looking for someone who will make an aluminum diamond plate pick guard for me once I decide upon a V builder.

 

[HANGAR18]

Have you considered talking-to the guys at Texas Toast?

I'm about to...

 

[Mad]

 

[AjCalderon]

A lot of very valid opinions here. Much appreciated! I've calmed down quite a bit. However, I feel I should mention that the same PRS PS dealer I mentioned previously also showed me a photo of a PRS made "Explorer" body style guitar. So, I KNOW they could do a V without any problem. Moot point now. That was the one and ONLY time I will ever ask them about it. As a matter of fact, if they came back and said, "Hey Danny, we changed our mind, we'll do it!", I'm done with the whole subject. No. That ship has sailed.

Used Hamer guitars? Not if the asking price is higher than a brand new PRS. I'm a player, not a collector.
Buy a PRS S2 and take a band saw and some Titebond III glue to the body? I have given that SERIOUS thought and haven't ruled that out yet.

So now I'm keeping a lookout for small, never-heard-of-them guitar builders, or maybe even guys who founded a guitar company and then sold it and no longer run the company which bears their namesake who still build guitars on the side. Maybe even that dude who builds Explorer bodied guitars for Hetfield. Heck, I'd buy a goddamn Epiphone V if they used solid wood, decent hardware and the same same truss rod as their mode expensive USA variants. I'm also looking for someone who will make an aluminum diamond plate pick guard for me once I decide upon a V builder.

It honestly probably has more to do with Covid than anything. I had to send a CE24 back for a factory refinish and they wouldn’t change the color on it no matter what I was willing to pay they said they didn’t have the time or manpower.

They also aren’t taking Artist one offs anymore either. Tried to get a 594 with an Ebony board and in a pink finish and they said I’d have to go private stock. Tried to get an s2 594 with Ebony board. Told I had to go private stock.

They really have no desire to do anything “one off” at the moment. In order to get the S2 I want I have to order 4 of them as a “dealer order”. I think I’m gonna do it because four S2’s is still cheaper than a private stock and I can sell off the extras even if it’s a loss for me.