Sometimes Vintage Gear Just Sucked

[HANGAR18]

Every pedal/wah/effects pedal I have ever bought brand new is still sitting in its original box, untouched. Most are all in a plastic storage bin in the attic. I think the Digitech Jam Man is the most fancy-pants of them all. Pretty sure I'll never use that one. Ever. https://digitech.com/en/products/jamman

 

[gush]

My only real angry gear ordeal is with an ART SGE processor. THE BIGGEST POS EVER SOLD.

The one I had ALMOST ended up in the ocean.

 

[Rusty Chops]

In the 70s and 80s, when the vintage market got started, the older guitars from the 50s and 60s truly were better. It wasn’t a myth. They sounded better and played better than the 70s stuff (and I would argue, much of the 80s stuff, except for a few builders like PRS). Same with amps, by the way.

Later, a different, untrue myth developed: The idea that “older” = “better.” This happened among folks who didn’t know why the whole vintage market got going, which was to get AWAY from the 70s guitars; all they were after was being able to say the guitar was “vintage.”

Throw in the fact that most players haven’t ever even played a 50s or 60s guitar, only reissues. There’s no basis for comparison. The whole thing is an ignorance-fest of major proportions.

Thus the 70s junk got hot for those who didn’t get in on the 50s and 60s stuff before the prices went out of reach, on the myth that older is better, and to that you can add the folks who want an early pedal, a low serial number, and all that other nonsense.

Fact is, most folks don’t know the difference between a great guitar and a mediocre or poorly made one. Most folks don’t have any experience at all with a truly great vintage amp. And predictably, Fender has started to reissue Silverface amps (that of course don’t even meet that standard), because people don’t know that the blackface amps were in fact more desirable.

I’ll throw in another fact: not all 50s and 60s guitars were great. There were plenty of clunkers. A few people understand and can hear the difference, but many just want to be able to say or feel good about having “a ‘65.”

I’ve played some “vintage” jazz boxes from the 40s and 50s that their owners paid a pretty penny for, and some of them were utterly lifeless and sour sounding. But to have a “vintage” D’Aquisto Or D’Angelico from the 40s or 50s, or some such in your possession? Big status, even if it sounds like a turd, cracked nitro finish notwithstanding!

The world is full of suckers. So what else is new?

I remember when ‘50’s Telecasters were just old guitars I could buy for a couple of hundred bucks.
At the time I bought two old Blackface Showman heads for $60 each. ‘Course, they needed a $300 tube/cap/and bias job, along with a couple other open tone cap fixes, but still.

My Ampeg V-4 heads were $100 each, but had been faithfully maintained in their eight trips around the world with the Doobie Brothers, by Alan Barts: who still techs around here someplace locally.

I blame Carlos Santana, who said in a Guitar Player Magazine interview that the “new stuff isn’t made the same way anymore...”
Next thing you knew, The was a “vintage market.”
I had to by unwanted CBS Tele’s for a couple hundred bucks (after Roy Buchanan got big).

Who knew CBS Tele’s would someday fetch $15,000+ large? Sheesh.

I think it’s great that my PRS guitars all sound better than anything I ever owned before, vintage, reissue, or found in a barn.

 

[Herr Squid]

Way early on in my time playing electric guitar (college) I got myself a dishwashing job and traded in a '65-ish Deluxe to pick up a 2-channel Carvin combo amp (because the Deluxe wouldn't sound like Metallica). Man, that Carvin was trash... It looked like a poor man's Boogie, and I could never get its dirt channel to sound like anything but a jar of bees. Get this: the tone knobs didn't even affect the dirty channel! I actually called Carvin to ask about that and they said, "yeah, that's the design of that amp." I guess the graphic EQ was supposed to do that job, and, well, it didn't, at least never to my satisfaction!

I thought at one point about gutting the thing and using its carcass to build something better, but never summoned up the gumption. Finally I put it on Craigslist for $30 and sold to somebody who turned out to be a guy who worked with my wife. He told me later the thing blew up about 3 weeks after he bought it. Neither of us thought it was a loss.

(The kicker was that there was a second hand store nearby that had a JCM800 half stack for $800... Shoulda found a way to do that instead!)

 

[Herr Squid]

Inspired by another thread where @Rusty Chos and I briefly discussed throwing vintage gear away, I just wanna say... some of that sh!t deserved it.

...I’ll forever scratch my head over the fact that people actually pay money for those plastic Arion chorus pedals. In their stock form, they broke, and it’s no wonder peeps need to modify them in order for them to be useful.

I picked one of those up when they were brand new, and thought it sounded really good on a neck humbucker through a clean Fender amp. Yeah, they were plastic and breakable, but I probably still would think it sounded good.

Of course it was the 80's and of course the "pro" thing to do was to buy rack gear, so when I bought my Alesis Quadraverb, I let that chorus pedal go to the other guitar player in my band. I never did bother to ask for it back when we split up.

 

[dkilpatrick]

I

During the 1970's, the quality of electrics guitars had gone downhill compared to days of yore. At some point, people started to seek out guitars from the 1950's and early 1960's, simply because those guitars were better made, easier to play and had better tone. Now that prices on the truly vintage guitars is out of reach for the average Joe, people are starting to pay silly money for the poorly built guitars from the 1970's. That's a head scratcher for me.

I own a Norlin era (77) LP custom, which is considered by some, a period that Gibson made their worst guitars. By all accounts it’s a really nice sounding and playing guitar (after a re-fret and a complete electronics overhaul). I bought it for S2 money back in 2000, and I see them listed now for 4K and higher.

 

[Boogie]

I picked one of those up when they were brand new, and thought it sounded really good on a neck humbucker through a clean Fender amp.

That’s exactly it...the only config that worked! Well, I used a neck single coil for best results. It was impossible to establish unity gain so when I used it with my 105w Twin II, playing at gig volume, if I stepped out of the fuzz, I’d decapitate the front row with 135dB of cleans. When you’re covering a Steve Lukather solo or that dude from Saga on the tune On the Loose, the last thing you wanted was cleans!

I own a Norlin era (77) LP custom, which is considered by some, a period that Gibson made their worst guitars. By all accounts it’s a really nice sounding and playing guitar (after a re-fret and a complete electronics overhaul). I bought it for S2 money back in 2000, and I see them listed now for 4K and higher.

My ‘79 Les Paul Deluxe is the perfect example of the Norlin crap. However, let it dry out for 40 years, put jumbo frets on it, route out the bridge and put a Burstbucker in, and it’s a damned nice Les Paul. I even like the big headstock.

 

[danktat]

Thank goodness, chorus is really only cool on bass.

Chorus is a staple in my rig. Has been since the late '90s

 

[Ovibos]

During the 1970's, the quality of electrics guitars had gone downhill compared to days of yore. At some point, people started to seek out guitars from the 1950's and early 1960's, simply because those guitars were better made, easier to play and had better tone. Now that prices on the truly vintage guitars is out of reach for the average Joe, people are starting to pay silly money for the poorly built guitars from the 1970's. That's a head scratcher for me.

This. When I was a kid, common wisdom was that all CBS-era F stuff was not great, and now people pay thru the nose for it.

I had a late 80's Japanese Strat that people seem to desire now, but what I remember is it being buzzy and snapping strings constantly.

 

[László]

I think it’s great that my PRS guitars all sound better than anything I ever owned before, vintage, reissue, or found in a barn.

100% agree!

I didn’t buy electric guitars made after the ‘60s until I found PRS.

However...there were some nice electric guitars made in the ‘70s and ‘80s I simply didn’t know anything about. F’rinstance, I probably would’ve been interested in Alembic and Rick Turner stuff in the 70s; though they wouldn’t be my style now, they’ve always been well-made. Etc.

One oddball observation: 1965 was kind of a high-water mark of its era. Think about the ‘65 Mustang, Stingray, or GTO in the US; or in Europe the 911’s introduction. It was undoubtedly a great guitar and amp year, too. Even the music that year was iconic - Satisfaction, Rubber Soul, Motown...

I feel lucky to have been around then...hang on, maybe people made in the ‘50s and ‘60s are as classic as the guitars, amps, cars and music!

 

[Herr Squid]

This. When I was a kid, common wisdom was that all CBS-era F stuff was not great, and now people pay thru the nose for it.

I had a late 80's Japanese Strat that people seem to desire now, but what I remember is it being buzzy and snapping strings constantly.

I saw a Fender Bullet on Reverb a few days ago that somebody actually wanted hundreds of dollars for. I had to snicker over that. The thing had some kind of perpendicular extension to the pickguard that held the ball ends of the strings. WT actual F?!

I've read here and there that the Japanese Fenders were pretty good at the time that Fender was rescued from CBS and they were trying to figure out how to make good American Strats again.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I saw a Fender Bullet on Reverb a few days ago that somebody actually wanted hundreds of dollars for. I had to snicker over that. The thing had some kind of perpendicular extension to the pickguard that held the ball ends of the strings. WT actual F?!

I've read here and there that the Japanese Fenders were pretty good at the time that Fender was rescued from CBS and they were trying to figure out how to make good American Strats again.

I’ve had a few Japanese Fender’s over the years and they were some of my favorite examples. My MM Jazz Bass is Japanese, and it’s just about my favorite bass in the whole world. I’d say the only really bad Japan Fender I owned was a dual hum Tele with their, I forget what they were named, maybe Flyer(?) trems, their old not-floyd locking whammy system.

 

[Herr Squid]

I’d say the only really bad Japan Fender I owned was a dual hum Tele with their, I forget what they were named, maybe Flyer(?) trems, their old not-floyd locking whammy system.

There were Kahler Spyders on the late 80's/early 90's shredder-oid Fenders. I have one on an HM Strat, and I think it's good for what it is. I played the snot out one of those for about 5 years. A couple of years ago I decided to treat it to a fret job, and the guy who did it told me "I've never played one of those before. I didn't want to put it down!"

 

[László]

One thing that might be added to this thread is that lots of vintage classic gear reissues aren’t all that, compared to the originals.

The blackface Fender amp reissues - especially thevTwin and Deluxe - were unworthy of the originals, though the hand wired Tweeds are nice sounding amps. I had a Gibson Historic 335 that was a nice modern guitar, though it didn’t quite have the tone of an old one. I sold it after 2 weeks (because WTF, it wasn’t my thing, even though there wasn’t anything wrong with it).

I think Vox’ handwired reissue AC30s are nice amps, though they don’t sound like an original. The JMI-branded AC30 reissues really do, however. So it’s certainly possible.

The new Magnatone reissues sound way better to me than the 60s originals. Sometimes reissues are pretty nice!

Point is, if folks think they’re getting “True Vintage tone” with reissues, well, occasionally that’s almost kinda-sorta true.

 

[Michael D. Carter]

Some of it really was awful, both as designed and due to sloppy manfucturing. And a lot of the bad stuff is righty recycled or otherwise discarded, leaving a non representative sample. I've collected a few 60s Strats. I've played plenty from that era that weren't magical to me. Like anything that old there's a lot of variability, and like me, they didn't all age well. PRS Core, and EBMM, seem to have used modern technology and quality control to largely eliminate that. For me it made my vintage guitars stay in their case while a pair of 594 McCarty's travel with me. Hopefully scaling up production doesn't result in quality control issues.

The same is true with my Fender JB Twin and the Bartel Starwood. Both are exceptional and the need to pay top dollar for, or even to keep, my vintage amps to play out disappeared.

I've a/b'd a lot of pedal over the years and I honestly think we are hear with our eyes too much (See generally Gladwell's chapters on round ice cream containers and how female orchestra musicians were only hired after auditions were conducted behind a screen). Vintage buzx just doesn't sound better to me than an Analogman NKT or a 65 Amps Colour Fuzz when I'm listening blind to what's being played. The inexpensive Dunlop blue and red fuzz nail their respective vintage tones as well. If you are into TS sounds, the JHS Bozai does a great replica of a lot of old ones, including an awesome TS10. The JHS is about 1/2 what a used TS10 will cost.

There's also just something about scarcity adding value. I guess it's a good thing it continues in a way, or I'd have an extreme financial loss in the future.

 

[Tone-y]

This is kind of funny as just yesterday I was browsing overdrive pedals on ebay and went past a bunch of black Russian made Big muffs that were going for a bit of money. I had to look into to it a bit as I have an old black russian big muff I bought about 15 years ago from someone at work for next to no money. It has pretty much sat in a box ever since as it didn't really do anything for me. It's not too bad to be honest, but at the same time not compelling and I've always though it looked cheap and nasty. Still, if it's worth 4 or 5 times what I paid for it I can't say I'm too unhappy.

 

[Guitpicky]

Vintage appliances with cloth covered cords
Vintage black and white TVs
Vintage computers
Vintage dairy products
Vintage underwear

Just to name a few

 

[Coop]

I’ve had a few Japanese Fender’s over the years and they were some of my favorite examples. My MM Jazz Bass is Japanese, and it’s just about my favorite bass in the whole world. I’d say the only really bad Japan Fender I owned was a dual hum Tele with their, I forget what they were named, maybe Flyer(?) trems, their old not-floyd locking whammy system.

Was it one of the System 1 or System 3 trems? Those were a bit goofy and didn’t stick around long.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Was it one of the System 1 or System 3 trems? Those were a bit goofy and didn’t stick around long.

Maybe that was the name, I can’t recall. It was one of those black neck Teles, with a separate lockdown behind the nut.

I’m sure I could google it, but I’m trying to work my brain.

 

[Big Mike]

I'm with Shawn on this one.
I remember when you couldn't GIVE 70's strats away.

Now they're the same price as a high end current build.
They're still the mile of thick poly and a 3 bolt neck. <shaking head>

I'd kill for a 50's tele. But i'm never springing for that kinda dough.


I'm a 25" scale setneck kinda guy at heart anyway. But the only 'vintage' I'll ever get back into is an 80's standard 24 regular neck sometime.