McCarty 594, pickups and tone chasing; 5 pickups in 5 days

Skeeter said:
Thanks for video Karan - I’ve been thinking of putting Mules in my 594 as well, and that was helpful.

Out of curiosity - why didn’t you just try the calibrated Mule neck? BKP’s material can be a little frustrating with respect to its neck pickups, so their EQ and general characteristics (besides magnet and dc resistance) can be a bit of a mystery. But I’ve always had good experiences going with their calibrated sets or whatever Tim recommends based on a specific need.
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I could not agree more. Infact that is what I wound up doing.

Sorry for the late reply
 
Hi guys! Great thread! I have had similar experiences with the 5815 LT, 5708 and 5909 and others in the Bridge of my SC 594 Prototype.
  • 5815 LTs - Awesome, clear and articulate, but sometimes slightly too low of an output
  • 5815s - I don't really remember what I thought of these, I think they were good, but obviously not mindblowingly so, or I probably wouldn't have swapped them out?
  • 5310s - Not great, sounded a little muffled relative to the others, these were swapped back out quickly
  • 5708s - Probably the best, but I sold them so starting over here
  • 5909s - In there now, good but a little too hot, not quite as clear as 5815 LTs, 5815s and 5708s
  • ThroBak Peter Greens - Also great, probably tied for first so far with the 5708s
  • (Played through a variety of Plexi-Voiced amps plus a Two Rock Bloomfield Drive)
The Mules sound great, thanks for the videos, Karan! I may try those next.

Great playing too. I noodle blues stuff just like that, and also dig Jimmy Page and Paul Kossoff, so that was right in my wheelhouse. :)

Question - Which length of screws would you recommend for the 594 with the Mules, short or long?
 
MA Pete said:
Hi guys! Great thread! I have had similar experiences with the 5815 LT, 5708 and 5909 and others in the Bridge of my SC 594 Prototype.
  • 5815 LTs - Awesome, clear and articulate, but sometimes slightly too low of an output
  • 5815s - I don't really remember what I thought of these, I think they were good, but obviously not mindblowingly so, or I probably wouldn't have swapped them out?
  • 5310s - Not great, sounded a little muffled relative to the others, these were swapped back out quickly
  • 5708s - Probably the best, but I sold them so starting over here
  • 5909s - In there now, good but a little too hot, not quite as clear as 5815 LTs, 5815s and 5708s
  • ThroBak Peter Greens - Also great, probably tied for first so far with the 5708s
  • (Played through a variety of Plexi-Voiced amps plus a Two Rock Bloomfield Drive)
The Mules sound great, thanks for the videos, Karan! I may try those next.

Great playing too. I noodle blues stuff just like that, and also dig Jimmy Page and Paul Kossoff, so that was right in my wheelhouse. :)

Question - Which length of screws would you recommend for the 594 with the Mules, short or long?
Click to expand...

Okay, so I did some searching here on the forum and found the below two posts of mine, the first one from the McCarty 594 Love thread, and the second one from a 5815 thread.

I have to retract the 5815 comment above, apparently I *DID* love them! It appears what happened is what often does happen - I found something great, and continued on in search of something even better, perhaps to never find it or not understand which ones were the favorites along the way, because it was done over the course of a year. (5 days sounds like a much more precise approach!)

MA Pete said:
Going to be a fun day here on the 594 thread! :)

First up - the "LT" on my pickups somehow magically turned to "TM" this week!

IMG_0433_zpsnoywrtkk.jpg


And the covers became a little shinier, and the Gold Slugs turned to Nickel.

WOW!! These pickups sound great in this guitar. I dig the LT's, but I had been searching for "regular" 5815's, and came across 2 sets last week and pulled the trigger on them both.

Paul was pretty proud of these 5815's when they came out in 2015:


In the video, Paul states that "the 8515's and 5815's are cleaner in the high midrange, they have less low midrange, and the bass note is a slightly different clearer but strong bass note." [Clarification: Versus the 5708's.]

Note that the Core Range for standard Humbucker guitars for 2017 has gone to all 5815's, LT's for the 594's and the Hollowbodies, and regular 5815's for the McCarty and the Santana, and the Uncovered 8515's for all the Customs.

The video also gives a brief history on the evolution over time from the 5708's to the 5909's, 5310's and 5815's. My Righteous Guitars Korina WL 594's have a 5708 in the Bridge and a 5815 LT in the Neck, and that is a GREAT combination. (The Grey Black WL 594 is for sale now, since I somehow acquired 3 all-Korina 594's along the way here...)

I think that a 5815 LT in the Neck combined with any of the 5XXX PRS Bridge Pickups would be a great combination in any 594, as those of you who have Brian's Guitars' WL 594's with the LT in the Neck and the Uncovered 5909 in the Bridge have already discovered.

The only reason I didn't keep the LT in the Neck and just try to the "Regular" 5815 in the Bridge on the 594 Trem PS this week is because the finishes don't match on the covers. ;)

Anyway, I am very pleased with these 5815's in the 594 Trem PS so far, and just thought I would share that!!

I can see me evolving to a collection of 594's with a mix of 5815's, 5815 LT's, 5708, 5909 etc in the bridge. Just for fun, and for an attempt at a justification at having a few.
Click to expand...

From a 5815-specific thread:

MA Pete said:
58/15's are currently my favorite PRS pickup, and I have tried many many examples of them all. ;)

My Avatar PS SC 594 has a 58/15 in the Bridge and a 58/15 LT in the neck, and it sounds PERFECT!!

The 58/15 LT Bridge is great too. In the beefier SC body I have found that one to be great, but still I like the slightly higher output 58/15 in the Bridge position. (I think like 8.5-8.6K versus 7.8K, which other things like the magnets and wire type being the same?) In the DC 594's, on many of those that I owned, I felt they were underpowered and replaced them with something hotter.

53/10's are tough to come by. I finally scored a set from Japan earlier this year, and they are in my beloved SC 594 Prototype right now, they sound great as well.

I dug 59/09's for many years, awesome slightly higher output PAF's, 9.0 to 9.5 in the bridge, but while they are super clear, they don't have the chime and clarity that the 58/15 LT's and 58/15's have.

I am tainted against 57/08's because they have varied soooooooooo much over the years. They are like the Magic 8 Ball of PRS pickups, you get a markedly differently result each time. :) I would bet that is not the case anymore, I should try a "Modern" set. In fairness to them, I have a had a couple of sets that were off the charts awesome.

If I were to rank them today, I would rank them like this:

1. 58/15
2. 53/10 (possibly outranking #3 by the psychological Unobtanium Factor!)
3. 58/15 LT
4. 57/08
5. 59/09

...mostly by my preference in the bridge, where I spend 80% of the time. I go for classic rock gain and crunch tones mostly, plus some clean to crunchy blues tones. My priority and context 2009-2014 was playing out with a classic rock cover band, 2015 to current I am just playing at home annoying my family and neighbors. ;)

A couple more comments:
-Yes, the 85/15 is supposedly identical to the 58/15, but uncovered.
-The 5310 Neck is to die for.
-I don't think there is much difference between a 58/15 LT (which as we know is the same pickup for Bridge and Neck) and a 58/15 Neck - I would bet the former is an evolution of the latter!
-The 58/15 LT is INCREDIBLE in a Semi-Hollow PRS. Was awesome in my PS DC 594 SH with no F-Hole, and is equally stellar in my current PS SC 594 SH with an F-Hole. The Semi-Hollowness really brings those LT's to life, off the charts tones with that combination!! (Note the only other PRS Guitar model beyond the 594's with the LT's stock in the Core models are the Hollowbodies, and the PS Archtops have them as well, so PRS seems to agree...)

My two cents, from a guy who has owned exactly 100 PRSi over the last 10 years, over half of them Ted's and 594's, so 50+ guitars with 57/08's, 59/09's (the Bridge Pickup for the Willcutt Guitars WL Ted's) and 58/15 LT's, with a few sets of 58/15's and 53/10's thrown in there for good measure... :)
Click to expand...

So, I am intrigued here in refreshing my memory. I think the verdict for me was I liked the 5815 LT in the neck and 5815, 5708 and 5909 in the bridge. (I am not as worried about the balance in the middle position, as I more often than not fine tune that with the volume knobs anyway.)

On a side note, I remember now re the 5310s - I *LOVED* the neck pickup, but not as much so the bridge. I preferred the 5815, 5708 and 5909 bridge over the 5310.

I definitely want to try the 5815s and 5708s again. As such, I scored a set of 5815s on Reverb last night (they had only been posted for 14 hours, I think I got lucky!) - so those will be tried next in the SC 594 prototype.
 
I'm relatively new to the 594s, having only had one for a bit over a month now. I love the sound of the 58/15LT pickups, but reading this thread and others got me curious for simple ways to take them to other tonal areas. I happened across one that I liked and thought to pass it on here.

I have a preamp pedal (oh, I know... I generally hate them too). It is called the Secret Preamp, made by Chase Tone (yes... waiting list), which I first saw being used by G.E. Smith of Hall & Oates and SNL fame. The circuit is actually just the preamp from the old Echoplex units, and was sort of a "secret weapon" for getting a little more push into the front end of an amp. It's not a booster, it doesn't have the sort of gain that will turn a 58/15LT into a DiMarzio Super Distortion. But it does add just the right stuff to open up some new tonal areas from these pickups without losing the great tone they have from the factory. I'm thinking of leaving the Secret Preamp in line while using the 594s just to have that slightly different flavor available. G.E. leaves his on all the time.

So, not a new pickup suggestion, but maybe a new way to get what you're looking for by swapping, without the soldering. And thanks for the inspiration to experiment!
 
RickP said:
I'm relatively new to the 594s, having only had one for a bit over a month now. I love the sound of the 58/15LT pickups, but reading this thread and others got me curious for simple ways to take them to other tonal areas. I happened across one that I liked and thought to pass it on here.

I have a preamp pedal (oh, I know... I generally hate them too). It is called the Secret Preamp, made by Chase Tone (yes... waiting list), which I first saw being used by G.E. Smith of Hall & Oates and SNL fame. The circuit is actually just the preamp from the old Echoplex units, and was sort of a "secret weapon" for getting a little more push into the front end of an amp. It's not a booster, it doesn't have the sort of gain that will turn a 58/15LT into a DiMarzio Super Distortion. But it does add just the right stuff to open up some new tonal areas from these pickups without losing the great tone they have from the factory. I'm thinking of leaving the Secret Preamp in line while using the 594s just to have that slightly different flavor available. G.E. leaves his on all the time.

So, not a new pickup suggestion, but maybe a new way to get what you're looking for by swapping, without the soldering. And thanks for the inspiration to experiment!
Click to expand...

Rick:

Yes, good thought.

I am not familiar with the Chase Tone pedal, but a very popular one that is also based on the Echoplex preamp is the the EP Booster from Xotic Effects. I got turned onto that one by David Grissom at one of the PRS Experience workshops, he has been using them in front of the amp for a long time, I believe.

I always have one on my board, it is great to hit when you want just a little more mojo. I am not playing out these days, but when I was from 2009-2015, I don't think I ever had a pedal board that didn't have one of these on it.

It has been my go-to for the 5815 LTs when I felt the bridge needed a little something extra. Xotic's RC Booster is quite nice as well, has 2 Boosts in it.

-Pete
 
MA Pete said:
Rick:

Yes, good thought.

I am not familiar with the Chase Tone pedal, but a very popular one that is also based on the Echoplex preamp is the the EP Booster from Xotic Effects. I got turned onto that one by David Grissom at one of the PRS Experience workshops, he has been using them in front of the amp for a long time, I believe.

I always have one on my board, it is great to hit when you want just a little more mojo. I am not playing out these days, but when I was from 2009-2015, I don't think I ever had a pedal board that didn't have one of these on it.

It has been my go-to for the 5815 LTs when I felt the bridge needed a little something extra. Xotic's RC Booster is quite nice as well, has 2 Boosts in it.

-Pete
Click to expand...
Great to know someone else has some experience with it! I had to wait a while for the CT pedal, so maybe the Xotic might be a better option. It's hard to argue with the tone DG gets, for sure.
 
RickP said:
I'm relatively new to the 594s, having only had one for a bit over a month now. I love the sound of the 58/15LT pickups, but reading this thread and others got me curious for simple ways to take them to other tonal areas. I happened across one that I liked and thought to pass it on here.

I have a preamp pedal (oh, I know... I generally hate them too). It is called the Secret Preamp, made by Chase Tone (yes... waiting list), which I first saw being used by G.E. Smith of Hall & Oates and SNL fame. The circuit is actually just the preamp from the old Echoplex units, and was sort of a "secret weapon" for getting a little more push into the front end of an amp. It's not a booster, it doesn't have the sort of gain that will turn a 58/15LT into a DiMarzio Super Distortion. But it does add just the right stuff to open up some new tonal areas from these pickups without losing the great tone they have from the factory. I'm thinking of leaving the Secret Preamp in line while using the 594s just to have that slightly different flavor available. G.E. leaves his on all the time.

So, not a new pickup suggestion, but maybe a new way to get what you're looking for by swapping, without the soldering. And thanks for the inspiration to experiment!
Click to expand...

MA Pete said:
Rick:

Yes, good thought.

I am not familiar with the Chase Tone pedal, but a very popular one that is also based on the Echoplex preamp is the the EP Booster from Xotic Effects. I got turned onto that one by David Grissom at one of the PRS Experience workshops, he has been using them in front of the amp for a long time, I believe.

I always have one on my board, it is great to hit when you want just a little more mojo. I am not playing out these days, but when I was from 2009-2015, I don't think I ever had a pedal board that didn't have one of these on it.

It has been my go-to for the 5815 LTs when I felt the bridge needed a little something extra. Xotic's RC Booster is quite nice as well, has 2 Boosts in it.

-Pete
Click to expand...
You guys need to check out Pete Thorn's video for the Drybell Unit 67. Phenomenal pedal.
 
bodia said:
You guys need to check out Pete Thorn's video for the Drybell Unit 67. Phenomenal pedal.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that. Watching now. Of course, Pete could plug into a cow patty and sound good. Not a cheap pedal, but isn't that always the case?
 
RickP said:
Thanks for that. Watching now. Of course, Pete could plug into a cow patty and sound good. Not a cheap pedal, but isn't that always the case?
Click to expand...
Sure is! Brett Kingman has a couple of good vids of it up too.
 
MA Pete said:
Hi guys! Great thread! I have had similar experiences with the 5815 LT, 5708 and 5909 and others in the Bridge of my SC 594 Prototype.
  • 5815 LTs - Awesome, clear and articulate, but sometimes slightly too low of an output
  • 5815s - I don't really remember what I thought of these, I think they were good, but obviously not mindblowingly so, or I probably wouldn't have swapped them out?
  • 5310s - Not great, sounded a little muffled relative to the others, these were swapped back out quickly
  • 5708s - Probably the best, but I sold them so starting over here
  • 5909s - In there now, good but a little too hot, not quite as clear as 5815 LTs, 5815s and 5708s
  • ThroBak Peter Greens - Also great, probably tied for first so far with the 5708s
  • (Played through a variety of Plexi-Voiced amps plus a Two Rock Bloomfield Drive)
The Mules sound great, thanks for the videos, Karan! I may try those next.

Great playing too. I noodle blues stuff just like that, and also dig Jimmy Page and Paul Kossoff, so that was right in my wheelhouse. :)

Question - Which length of screws would you recommend for the 594 with the Mules, short or long?
Click to expand...

Thank you for your kind words MA Pete.

Yes the Mules are a nice classic kick in the balls PAF. They're super sensitive to the slightest change and ergo they respond to your volume & tone knobs very well.

Definitely at the British end of things though a la Clapton, Kossoff, Page dependent on where you set the volume and tone.
What they will not do though is your lighter PAF sounds - Think Bloomfield, Peter Green etc very well. I mean they'll sound pretty killer but not perfect for that kind of PAF tone. They do Gibbons pretty well though! I tried jamming to La Grange and was not disappointed.

Now that I'm where I want to be though, in catharsis: I do not blame the original 58/15LTs. I think they were authentic to Holy Grail tone. But as stated as a caveat by PRS and well any other PAF chaser/repro manufacturer out there. Holy Grail tone is different for everyone because those pickups between 57-60 were very inconsistent not only year on year but even piece to piece in each production batch.
So maybe LTs were Holy Grail pickups but just not my Holy Grail. The Mules got me there but maybe they will or won't work for you?
There's a legend that Bernie Marsden's Beast and Kossoff's All Right Now Burst were both Clapton's at one point but he traded them and settled for something else because he never rediscovered the Beano tone in any of them and switched to 335s & SGs!
So if it differs for them, who're we really, noodlers & enthusiasts? But at least we know we're not wrong in looking beyond what's given to what could be.

The most exciting this is I'm sure this thread and others like it are reflected in the new 2020 models. Anyone see those videos the ones with Tim Pierce & Howard Leese and then the CME one?



About the scews, Bareknuckle are kind enough to supply "historically correct" mounting hardware.
The only thing I believe they say, that's not 100% accurate to original PAFs is that there's a Bareknuckle logo embossed to the bottom plate instead of a plain one with a Patent Applied For sticker like other cloners. The rest of the materials used are pretty faithful as claimed and I think reflect in the sound.
 
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