McCarty 594, pickups and tone chasing; 5 pickups in 5 days

Thank you for your kind words MA Pete.

Yes the Mules are a nice classic kick in the balls PAF. They're super sensitive to the slightest change and ergo they respond to your volume & tone knobs very well.

Definitely at the British end of things though a la Clapton, Kossoff, Page dependent on where you set the volume and tone.
What they will not do though is your lighter PAF sounds - Think Bloomfield, Peter Green etc very well. I mean they'll sound pretty killer but not perfect for that kind of PAF tone. They do Gibbons pretty well though! I tried jamming to La Grange and was not disappointed.


Now that I'm where I want to be though, in catharsis: I do not blame the original 58/15LTs. I think they were authentic to Holy Grail tone. But as stated as a caveat by PRS and well any other PAF chaser/repro manufacturer out there. Holy Grail tone is different for everyone because those pickups between 57-60 were very inconsistent not only year on year but even piece to piece in each production batch.
So maybe LTs were Holy Grail pickups but just not my Holy Grail. The Mules got me there but maybe they will or won't work for you?
There's a legend that Bernie Marsden's Beast and Kossoff's All Right Now Burst were both Clapton's at one point but he traded them and settled for something else because he never rediscovered the Beano tone in any of them and switched to 335s & SGs!

So if it differs for them, who're we really, noodlers & enthusiasts? But at least we know we're not wrong in looking beyond what's given to what could be.

The most exciting this is I'm sure this thread and others like it are reflected in the new 2020 models. Anyone see those videos the ones with Tim Pierce & Howard Leese and then the CME one?



About the scews, Bareknuckle are kind enough to supply "historically correct" mounting hardware.
The only thing I believe they say, that's not 100% accurate to original PAFs is that there's a Bareknuckle logo embossed to the bottom plate instead of a plain one with a Patent Applied For sticker like other cloners. The rest of the materials used are pretty faithful as claimed and I think reflect in the sound.

Great reply, thanks!

I had seen the Howard Leese / Tim Pierce video, that is terrific! I am a huge fan of both of them, and had the opportunity to meet Howard and trade some guitars with him over the years. (It has been great fun to see him out there gigging my former guitars!) That is a great demo of them comparing the tones, and it is pretty mind-blowing.

I hadn't see the CME video, that was pretty cool as well. That to me was a very "real world" test, I thought the 594 sounded the best of any of those guitars, by a long shot.

Back to the pickups, the stock 5815 LTs are absolutely AMAZING in both the bridge and neck of my new SC 594 Semi-Hollow and DC 594 Hollowbody II guitars. Something about those LTs and Semi-Hollow and Hollow construction, WOW! Those won't be going anywhere.

In the SC 594 Prototype, based on finding my old notes posted above, I am going to start with the 5815s. The set I snagged on Reverb came in yesterday! I will report back when I get them in and get a chance to test them out...
 
Great reply, thanks!

I had seen the Howard Leese / Tim Pierce video, that is terrific! I am a huge fan of both of them, and had the opportunity to meet Howard and trade some guitars with him over the years. (It has been great fun to see him out there gigging my former guitars!) That is a great demo of them comparing the tones, and it is pretty mind-blowing.

I hadn't see the CME video, that was pretty cool as well. That to me was a very "real world" test, I thought the 594 sounded the best of any of those guitars, by a long shot.

Back to the pickups, the stock 5815 LTs are absolutely AMAZING in both the bridge and neck of my new SC 594 Semi-Hollow and DC 594 Hollowbody II guitars. Something about those LTs and Semi-Hollow and Hollow construction, WOW! Those won't be going anywhere.

In the SC 594 Prototype, based on finding my old notes posted above, I am going to start with the 5815s. The set I snagged on Reverb came in yesterday! I will report back when I get them in and get a chance to test them out...

Hey, nice!

I now authentically & officially know a guy that knows a famous guy:)

That's pretty neat man getting to trade with an actual player out there.

My only regret is, I bought my 594 3 years too soon.
Wish I'd waited till 2020 but I guess everything happens for a reason because I doubt I'd have bothered learning more about pickups and PAFs etc if I hadn't.

Now I really want a Nitro finish though:confused:.
Any thoughts on the old V12 finish? It said it was V12 when I got it from Sweetwater but now I believe they say Arcylic Urethane. Maybe I'll have it refinished through PTC after a few years of play. I've always been a 1 guitar guy so every time I move on to something better I sell or share the old one. We're a whole family of guitarists so no dearth of players and good homes for old instruments. But this one's a keeper.

I guess I'll need some form of work on frets a few years down so maybe a conversion to burst?:rolleyes:
 
My only regret is, I bought my 594 3 years too soon.
Wish I'd waited till 2020 but I guess everything happens for a reason because I doubt I'd have bothered learning more about pickups and PAFs etc if I hadn't.

Now I really want a Nitro finish though:confused:.
Any thoughts on the old V12 finish? It said it was V12 when I got it from Sweetwater but now I believe they say Arcylic Urethane. Maybe I'll have it refinished through PTC after a few years of play. I've always been a 1 guitar guy so every time I move on to something better I sell or share the old one. We're a whole family of guitarists so no dearth of players and good homes for old instruments. But this one's a keeper.

I guess I'll need some form of work on frets a few years down so maybe a conversion to burst?:rolleyes:

"My only regret is, I bought my 594 3 years too soon."

I can't agree with that - didn't you enjoy the crap out of the SC 594 for those three years? Your many great videos seem to indicate that you did! ;)

There is always going to be something newer and shinier coming out, whether it is guitars, tech or cars. (Also three of which are equally a problem for me...) And to make matters worse, companies pull on our emotions and the dopamine rush to perhaps "oversell" the difference of how much the new thing is better than the old/existing thing.

That said, enjoy things while you can, life is short!!

My apologies to all out there for my ranting about how much I am blown away by the new 2020 SC 594. I realize I may be feeding into all the above by fueling the feeling that somehow the existing Core 594s are not as great anymore and we will now need these amazing 2020 guitars to be satisfied. That really is not the case. The 2016+ DC and SC 594s are the best PRS models ever, best models of any guitar maker IMO, for any "Short Scale" guitar lover.

If you do choose to "upgrade" at some point, you did it right by doing a Goldtop, that would take the least hit re depreciation of any model if sold. ;)

Paul and team are ALWAYS striving for improvements, and that is the reason why the 594s are so great! Paul and team have been tinkering with that Short Scale PRS formula since the introduction of the SC 245 (and really with the Howard Leese Golden Eagle and the Santana before that), through the DC and SC Ted McCartys in 2009, to the 2014 Ted McCarty Singlecuts (Private Stock only), to reaching near-perfection with the DC and SC 594 in 2016.

Honestly, I don't know how on earth they can improve from here. But I am sure they will keep on going! ;)
 
you guys make me want a custom 22 with 57/08, but it's hard to find, seems to have been in production only two years...
 
I have a similar issue. I have 2 594 ten tops. One sounds amazing, I did a minor setup and it sounds great. The other one sounds good but the bridge is a little thinner and brighter sounding.

I brought it closer to the strings, and adjusted the neck so the action was less buzzy. Adjusted the poles some too. It sounds much better after some fine tuning but live it’s still not as magical as the other one. I measured both and the great one is just slightly hotter by .1 k on both pickups. The other one has an artist grade top though so it looks better, and the neck LT sounds like it should. It is amazing on a low output pickup how much a little adjustment can make.

I have been on a bit of a hunt for a regular 58/15 set. I imagine for the bridge the neck 58/15 would be enough to give me clarity but have a bit more punch. I do have a pearly gates plus in my pickup drawer as well I might try. It’s just under 9k and A5 rather than A2 like the standard pearly. Should be closer to a 59 really. Maybe I’ll put a cover on and try it out.

Does anyone know what magnet is in the 58/15 or the LT’s? I imagine it’s an A2, and probably putting an A4 or a rough cast unoriented A5 would boost the output without changing the tonality to much. I bet putting an A8 in these would really wake them up.
 
Tha
Nice share Karan!

Thanks man.

I’ve tried literally a dozen different pickups including

Duncan Pearlys A2 pros and 59s, BKP Mules, Stormy Monday’s, 58/15LTs that came stock, Custom shop Duncan’s, Gibson Custom Buckers, ThroBaks, D’Marzio PAF master

These hands down have everything just right to them. The right response to the vol knob, the right output level, brightness and clarity with the right amount in each freq parameter, the ideal touch sensitivity.

Most of all they got tone!

It’s the OX4 Page set but with single conductors and the bridge wound to PAF spec not T Top. I asked him to wind it to pre T Top parameters
 
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Tha


Thanks man.

I’ve tried literally a dozen different pickups including

Duncan Pearlys A2 pros and 59s, BKP Mules, Stormy Monday’s, 58/15LTs that came stock, Custom shop Duncan’s, Gibson Custom Buckers, ThroBaks, D’Marzio PAF master

These hands down have everything just right to them. The right response to the vol knob, the right output level, brightness and clarity with the right amount in each freq parameter, the ideal touch sensitivity.

Most of all they got tine!

It’s the OX4 Page set but with single conductors and the bridge wound to PAF spec not T Top. I asked him to wind it to pre T Top parameters

A true tonal journey!
 
I play my McCarty's stock 58/15 LT pickups through a Friedman JJ Jr and it totally nails the AiC, Facelift/Dirt and Soundgarden, Bad Motor Finger grindy tone in my opinion. I either use the bridge pickup with the tone rolled slightly back, or sometimes the middle position for both pickups, with the neck pickup coil split engaged.

If I throw in a boost of some kind, (been using a Horizon Precision Drive recently), I can get pretty convincing modern metal tones out of them too.

Full disclosure, my 594 has an all rosewood neck and Brazilian rosewood board, so I do seem to get warmer, more full sounding mids than I've heard on other 594's, though not by a huge margin to my ears.
 
the SD Pearly G with the matt black cover has no markings. I have one in my SE semi hollow bridge with a black open Saturday Night special in neck position. That has markings.
 
So after trying the \M/ bridge pickup for a few days, I think I'm going to have it taken out and replaced with a Seymour Duncan JB. My mistake was probably expecting the \M/ pickup to emulate the a pickup (JB) which is in most of the music I listen to from the 80s/90s.

The \M/ is a really articulate pickup at higher gains, but it maybe too clean, or "sterile" sounding? But that's the only way I can think of to describe it. If you roll back the volume, it does clean up nicely. It is definitely higher gain than the 58/15 LT which I like and is very articulate for chords, but I guess it maybe too modern for what I'm looking for? It does seem to cut through a mix pretty well, but it doesn't have the low end or mids that the 58/15 LT TCI in the bridge had. Its very "trebly" when its up to a 10, so I've been rolling back the tone knob to around 5-7. At a 5-7 its much closer to a what I'd like. I don't think it blends very well with the 58/15 LT in the neck either since they're such different pickups. Its not a bad pickup at all and is pretty versatile, just not what I was looking for.

I've never tried a JB before (I know its the sound of the 80s/90s though), but I have a Duncan Distortion in my Charvel So Cal for some reference. I much prefer that pickup, even at a 10 on the volume knob. Its cleans aren't as good as the 58/15 LT. I don't expect the JB's cleans to be as good either, but I'm sure they'll come a little closer.

In sum, I agree with the OP. The 58/15 LTs, especially TCIs, are a really good pickup that could be close to perfect if they were just higher output and didn't get as muddy at higher gain. But then I guess that would defeat the purpose of them.

Here's a video of it in a mix practicing. I plan to make a video without the mix to hear it by itself and then just play some chords before I probably get it taken out for the JB.

 
So after trying the \M/ bridge pickup for a few days, I think I'm going to have it taken out and replaced with a Seymour Duncan JB. My mistake was probably expecting the \M/ pickup to emulate the a pickup (JB) which is in most of the music I listen to from the 80s/90s.

The \M/ is a really articulate pickup at higher gains, but it maybe too clean, or "sterile" sounding? But that's the only way I can think of to describe it. If you roll back the volume, it does clean up nicely. It is definitely higher gain than the 58/15 LT which I like and is very articulate for chords, but I guess it maybe too modern for what I'm looking for? It does seem to cut through a mix pretty well, but it doesn't have the low end or mids that the 58/15 LT TCI in the bridge had. Its very "trebly" when its up to a 10, so I've been rolling back the tone knob to around 5-7. At a 5-7 its much closer to a what I'd like. I don't think it blends very well with the 58/15 LT in the neck either since they're such different pickups. Its not a bad pickup at all and is pretty versatile, just not what I was looking for.

I've never tried a JB before (I know its the sound of the 80s/90s though), but I have a Duncan Distortion in my Charvel So Cal for some reference. I much prefer that pickup, even at a 10 on the volume knob. Its cleans aren't as good as the 58/15 LT. I don't expect the JB's cleans to be as good either, but I'm sure they'll come a little closer.

In sum, I agree with the OP. The 58/15 LTs, especially TCIs, are a really good pickup that could be close to perfect if they were just higher output and didn't get as muddy at higher gain. But then I guess that would defeat the purpose of them.

Here's a video of it in a mix practicing. I plan to make a video without the mix to hear it by itself and then just play some chords before I probably get it taken out for the JB.

Looking forward to your next video. Your recording without the track should give us a better representation of the \m/.
Are you gong to stay in Drop D? Some E Std. chugga-chugga’s would be nice. Thrash-ier.:D
 
Still need to get away to posting some straight guitar clips I took of the Metal \M/ pickups before I had them taken out, but I'd definately recommend the Seymour Duncan JBs to anyone looking for a good replacement pickup for the 594. They're probably not as hot as can be for this song, but IMO, they're one of the most versatile pickups out there. I've also been playing my guitars with the 85/15s in them and noticing that the JB is pretty close in sound and versatility to the 85/15s. I'd say if you could boost the 85/15s a bit and give them more cut and less mids, they'd probably sound just like the JBs.

 
Still need to get away to posting some straight guitar clips I took of the Metal \M/ pickups before I had them taken out, but I'd definately recommend the Seymour Duncan JBs to anyone looking for a good replacement pickup for the 594. They're probably not as hot as can be for this song, but IMO, they're one of the most versatile pickups out there. I've also been playing my guitars with the 85/15s in them and noticing that the JB is pretty close in sound and versatility to the 85/15s. I'd say if you could boost the 85/15s a bit and give them more cut and less mids, they'd probably sound just like the JBs.


That sounded pretty dope to me... I have JB in the bridge of my Edwards LP actually and love it. It’s a great sounding pickup across any genre and pairs really nicely with a ‘59 in the neck.

I will not be posting a clip as there is no way in hell I’m following that.
 
A small story, some observations and possible learnings.

I've had my McCarty 594 double cut for a few weeks now, and like many others I found the 58/15 LT, in the bridge position a little bit lacking in drive. But I was quite aware that it supported the middle position by blending with the neck pickup, and it provided fantastic overall tones from the guitar. additionally it truly is a very good pickup. So I started out convincing myself I can easily go back to the original pick up no problem let's try a few out and see what happens. I really wanted to keep a lot of the original design intent of the guitar.
My preference is for a bright guitar, additionally I selected a 594 with a maple neck. I feel like most amplifiers have way too much bass, every guitar I have seems to have the tone knob rolled to maximum 10 almost permanently, it's so easy to make a small adjustment down if the guitar is slightly bright. But you can never seem to make a bass heavy guitar regain treble frequencies. I always wish I could roll my tone knob to 11 or 12 just a little more brightness. Marshall amplifier FYI.

Day 1: PRS 59/09 bridge, 9.5 K ohms. I suspected that this one was going to have too much gain, this is very good pickup as well, slightly mid-heavy for me, very solid rock 'n roll, I did seem to miss some of the high frequencies. And it seemed to dominate the neck pickup too much with volume and gain. The picking dynamics and subtleties faded away in the low gain settings. But very fun rock 'n roll power chords. decent to excellent coil splitting, very nice authentic single coil sound.

Day 2: PRS 85/15 bridge, 8.6 K ohms A very interesting pick up. This was very close to satisfying across many different songs and playing styles, this one seems slightly opposite of the 59/09 EQ wise it seemed to me slightly scooped in the mids, as I started playing a lot of 70s classic rock then comparing directly with the Les Paul, the only way to get a match was to turn my mid-EQ up to 80% of maximum on the amplifier, confirming the slight lack of mids. The gain structure of this pickup is very pleasing and very flexible. coil splitting was excellent, matching the neck pickup middle position tones very nice. It was just a little bit too difficult to cover the classic rock songs, a little bit too much EQ'ing. super strong contender.

Day 3: Back to the PRS 58/15 LT bridge 7.5K ohms, I love the EQ on this pickup, just had to remind myself what I was chasing. Played all my classic rock songs, but had to add a booster or drive pedal to everything. but such a satisfying pickup in most every way, the clarity, the picking dynamics super fun. split coil awesome. but still lacking that drive and gain where harmonic bloom blossoms.

Day 4: PRS 57/08 bridge pickup 9.22 K ohms, Wow this pickup is killer, absolute perfect EQ. 60s 70s 80s 90s rock instant find it. couldn't stop playing it. Until I tried to blend it with the other pickup. Very nice single coil tone, it was better at playing with the neck pickup than the 59/ 09, but it's still dominated, turning the volume knob down on the 594 is a problem there's way too much treble loss, I think I may need to put a treble bleed circuit in. So the only problem with this pickup is it's not quite playing well with the neck. Super strong contender.

Day 5: Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates bridge pickup 8.00 K ohms, I would say the 57/08 is a near perfect clone of this pickup, the gain structure the EQ the tightness, however this has a slightly better flavor of more brightness in the upper treble regions a few more bell like tones up there, very pleasing,
I chalk it up to the lower windings and lower resistance of the pearly gates. The reason I tried this pickup was because I have an 8.4 K ohms custom shop Pearly Gates in my les paul, which has been extremely satisfying for several years. I just hesitated to put the same pickup in multiple guitars. but this LT version,
Just blends with the 5815 LT absolutely perfectly, and it's absolutely just as satisfying as the 57/08 covered all my classic rock songs with no booster pedals, covered all my David Gilmour songs on the single coil or should I say coil tap. So this is going to be the final pickup I believe this one is not coming out. I can't put the guitar down. Every coil tap every position the tones are not just satisfying they are amazing.

One of the final observations playing the two guitars head-to-head the LP still has some stronger string attack and slightly brighter flavor, and I was trying to figure it out. And it suddenly became obvious, because I had switched out some saddles on a previous guitar from the typical steel alloys, to brass saddles, and the brass definitely takes away some of the high-end trading for some more mid EQ complexities, and it definitely slightly lowers the attack on the string. I immediately took the brass saddles out of that older guitar. So the two guitars definitely are very similar and yet completely different flavors, I believe the brass saddles work extremely well on this guitar I have no intent of changing them. So the LP has a slightly stronger string attack with its titanium saddles, and the 594 has much more complex blooming mid-harmonics. Slightly less string attack. compensated a little bit with the maple neck.
The guitar does have a new look with the black uncovered Pearly gates. I think it looks pretty damn good. But it sounds like a monster. Extremely happy, I spend 50% of the playing time on that neck pickup that's why I invested so much time trying to find a perfect bridge pickup. The 5815 LT in the neck is in my opinion genius super awesome guitar best neck pickup I've ever played The humbucker mode and the split coil mode so useful. Now with a little more heat in the bridge.
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HI
how did you wire the pearly gates to the tone pot
I replaced the prs white wire with the red and white pearly gates but when both pickups are on 10 it sounds muffled
 
My clear favorite pickups are the 5708s that were put in my ‘08 Korina McCarty back in 2009 by the PTC as part of a free promotion. They have unengraved covers with the lateral etching. I wish i had another set to put in my ‘08 SC245.

Has anyone who has the older 5708s bought a more recent set? If so, how do they compare?
 
I'm still willing to let you borrow my covered 5310 bridge pickup to extend your comparison.
 
My clear favorite pickups are the 5708s that were put in my ‘08 Korina McCarty back in 2009 by the PTC as part of a free promotion. They have unengraved covers with the lateral etching. I wish i had another set to put in my ‘08 SC245.

Has anyone who has the older 5708s bought a more recent set? If so, how do they compare?

Same here, I acquired a set with no engraving. The story I'm told by the guy I bought them from is that they were a proto set that Paul sent to a close friend, who then sold them to this guy, who then sold them to me, in 2012. Haven't had another set of newer 57/08's to compare, wish I did. It'd be interesting to know if there was anything to the hype around the earliest sets.
 
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