S2 and SE “S” & TCI Pickups and Split Coil Tone

[sumitagarwal]

This to me is the easiest way to hear the difference. The neck pickup comes off more p90. I’m pretty sure the SE and S2 use the same pickups for the 24-08s

Thanks for this! Haven't gotten to listen carefully yet, but from the 2:42 mark (both pickups split) I'm hearing a significant degree more Strat quack on the 24-08, which I'd expect based on the 24-fret neck pickup position alone

 

[Broseph]

I’ve owned both. I tried the 24-08 and did not like it. I tried the Paul’s and loved it. I wish the neck pickup on the Paul’s had more treble to it. Then again I also could have easily set up the amp to enhance it…but I’m lazy. I probably could have played more with the pickup pole pieces too.

Neither come off as strat like to me. They can do single coils but I wouldn’t confuse them with a strat or tele

 

[sumitagarwal]

I’ve owned both. I tried the 24-08 and did not like it. I tried the Paul’s and loved it. I wish the neck pickup on the Paul’s had more treble to it. Then again I also could have easily set up the amp to enhance it…but I’m lazy. I probably could have played more with the pickup pole pieces too.

Neither come off as strat like to me. They can do single coils but I wouldn’t confuse them with a strat or tele

That's interesting, what was the difference between the 24-08 and the Paul's to you?

Based off pickup positioning I'd expect the 24-08 to give a bit more treble.

 

[Broseph]

That's interesting, what was the difference between the 24-08 and the Paul's to you?

Based off pickup positioning I'd expect the 24-08 to give a bit more treble.

The 24-08 had a more modern sound. I wasn’t a fan. But I believe that was when the 24-08 had 85/15s in them. The newest version (2024) says TCIs. Which would make it the same as what the Paul’s SE always had. I wish PRS posted the DCRs of their guitars. It would demystify so much. I would want to hear the 2024 models compared if they share the same pickups

 

[sumitagarwal]

The 24-08 has a more modern sound. I wasn’t a fan. But I believe that was when the 24-08 had 85/15s in them. The newest version (2024) says TCI. Which would make it the same as the Paul’s SE. I wish PRS posted the DCRs of their guitars. It would demystify so much. If that’s the case then I would want to hear the 2024 models compared.

Agreed. Although without going down a whole different rabbit hole... listing inductance would be even better.

 

[SinSir]

Agreed. Although without going down a whole different rabbit hole... listing inductance would be even better.

It's on here somewhere, from memory..Pauls se TCI come in around 11ohms and se Cu2408 TCI come in around 8ohms

 

[Broseph]

It's on here somewhere, from memory..Pauls se TCI come in around 11ohms and se Cu2408 TCI come in around 8ohms

That’s what I recall. I also recall them saying that the Paul’s SE TCI was overwound asymmetrically to allow higher output of the coils when tapped, thus minimizing volume drop. But now I can’t find that info anywhere? I know the full humbucking mode is suppose to approximate p90s.

 

[sumitagarwal]

That’s what I recall. I also recall them saying that the Paul’s SE TCI was overwound asymmetrically to allow higher output of the coils when tapped, thus minimizing volume drop. But now I can’t find that info anywhere? I know the full humbucking mode is suppose to approximate p90s.

These measurements are for the Core 24-08 TCI pickups, but reflects what you say here. Phillip McKnight measured these in his review:

bridge 8.19K split 5.52K (assume other coil 2.67K)
Neck 6.12K Split 4.38K (assume other coil 1.74K)
5.34 bridge inductance
4.27 neck inductance

 

[Broseph]

Yeah. Reminds me of Fralin Unbucker. I would credit him for having that idea of overwinding a single side to create a strong tapped sound. PRS designed the core with a completely different shape but same philosophy. I wish I could track down the info on the SE.

 

[sumitagarwal]

Yeah. Reminds me of Fralin Unbucker. I would credit him for having that idea of overwinding a single side to create a strong tapped sound. PRS designed the core with a completely different shape but same philosophy. I wish I could track down the info on the SE.

Here's data for the TCI "S" bridge and neck, but not down to the individual coils:

PRS TCI "S" Bridge - Guitar Pickup Database

Find all available specifications of the PRS TCI "S" Bridge pickup on Guitar Pickup Database .

guitarpickupdatabase.com

PRS TCI "S" Neck - Guitar Pickup Database

Find all available specifications of the PRS TCI "S" Neck pickup on Guitar Pickup Database .

guitarpickupdatabase.com

 

[Broseph]

Here's data for the TCI "S" bridge and neck, but not down to the individual coils:

PRS TCI "S" Bridge - Guitar Pickup Database

Find all available specifications of the PRS TCI "S" Bridge pickup on Guitar Pickup Database .

guitarpickupdatabase.com

PRS TCI "S" Neck - Guitar Pickup Database

Find all available specifications of the PRS TCI "S" Neck pickup on Guitar Pickup Database .

guitarpickupdatabase.com

Wow. Those measurements are very close for neck and bridge. Interesting. That would be same principle as core Paul’s.

Which is funny that now they have the core Paul’s in the 24-08. Keeping the lines similar all the way thru now. It makes sense.

 

[SinSir]

Wow. Those measurements are very close for neck and bridge. Interesting. That would be same principle as core Paul’s.

Which is funny that now they have the core Paul’s in the 24-08. Keeping the lines similar all the way thru now. It makes sense.

Se Paul guitar

neck 11.0k ohms
bridge 11.0k ohms

 

[sumitagarwal]

I think a lot of it has to do with trying to get good Strat in-between tones. When you've got both pickups selected they're parallel to each other and any imbalance in inductance skews towards the stronger pickup being very dominant. FWIW I also think this is the reason for the distinctive Tele middle sound, with the big difference in power between them

 

[Veetwin]

The se Pauls is named TCI. That's the pickups name.

Not sure what's up with calling the 24-08 TCI too. It does in fact have much different readings than the se Pauls.

The difference is significant in a way, 24 frets, different neck carve, different bridge, therefore the tune would need to be different?

 

[SinSir]

The difference is significant in a way, 24 frets, different neck carve, different bridge, therefore the tune would need to be different?

It's not differnet pickups in differnet guitars that's the confusion.. it's the genius that decided to call the pickups the same name.

 

[jamjam1]

OP it sounds like you haven't tried them all. If not, I'd recommend it. I went in to try them intending to buy the Paul's, then I was handed a standard S2 and was much more impressed by it. Then I was handed an S2 McCarty 594 and really liked that as well. Finally tried a 10th anniversary S2 Custom 24 and that was my favorite. And that's what I bought. I didn't want to spend 2x the price of the SE Paul's but to my ears it was worth it.

From that experience I would get any S2 over an SE. So I'd recommend trying them to make sure before you buy.

 

[LaxActium]

Paul’s had a more vintage voicing than the 85/15 pickups.
The MEV up till last year also called their pickups TCI. For 2024 they renamed the pickups to MEV. I emailed them about it and they said it’s just renamed but the same pickups as 2023.
It’s all in the voicing.

 

[nebben]

That's what I was thinking as well. It's a shame PRS doesn't make an S2 Paul's or something similar.

I do wonder what pickups the Paul uses though. It would be nice if this was better documented. It only says "TCI," which it seems is more of a process. I know P90 has been thrown around in reference to the tone, but I don't think it is actually a P90 pickup as it's a Humbucker. I assume they took another pickup - say 85/15 or 58/15 - and then tuned it via TCI to have a brighter, sharper, yet vintage tone, more like a P90. Do you think it sounds more like an 85/15 or 58/15?

I'm considering the S2 594 Anniversary. How do you find the tone? I've read confusing things about the 58/15 LTs. Some say it's quite dark and muddy, yet others talk about the clarity and surprisingly good mids and highs. I tend to like the clarity and range of the 85/15's, but I often find it quite harsh and clinical. I often play clean, and it can be somewhat unpleasant. Yet, sometimes the 594 does sound dark and muddy in videos I've watched.

I own two PRS guitars, both of which are S2's. One is a "Limited Run" Custom 24 from Chicago Music Exchange. CME had (and maybe still has a few) Limited Run S2 Custom 24s and McCarty 594s with ebony fretboards and quilted tops. Oh, and the LR S2Cu24 also has a Pattern Regular neck instead of a Pattern Thin as well. On my CME LR S2Cu24 I replaced the pickups with USA 85/15 TCI pickups and installed a wiring harness from PRS with CTS pots and a 5-way switch instead of a 3-way. I also added a Brass bridge block and nickel plated brass saddles that I got from John Mann's Guitar Vault. Great playing and sounding guitar now and I absolutely love it (not that it was bad at all before I modded it).

My other S2 is a 10th Anniversary McCarty 594 (Fire Red) which I absolutely am in love with. It has the Pattern Vintage Neck, which felt a bit thick to me at first but I've come to appreciate the feel it gives the guitar. Also, the sounds you can get from the USA pickups with the Push-Pull tone knobs for coil splits are amazing. The USA 58/15LT pickups - which have been through the TCI process on the 10th Anniversary 594s - are fantastic. The guitar has a very Les Paul kind of sound/feel (as it should) but it's certainly not trying to directly copy it the Les Paul experience. It may feel like sort of like a Les Paul but it is something of it's own completely. It doesn't quite sound like any other HH guitar I've ever played from any brand, and I mean that in a good way. The neck pickup, with the coil split, can almost be mistaken for an acoustic guitar, especially if you roll off the tone knob a bit. And both the bridge coil split and each full Humbucker has it's own sound as well. If you're still considering an Anniversary 594 I say grab one now, before they're gone. I modded the hell out of my S2Cu24. The 594 Anniversary has only gotten strap locks and a set of vintage style PRS locking tuning machines (I put locking tuning machines on all my guitars if they don't already have them). I don't plan to make any further changes to my Anniversary 594. Absolutely a great sounding, playing, and gorgeous guitar in any color in my opinion!

 

[rshack]

The more I learn about TCI pickups and process, the less I know what to do. I'm hoping folks here will be able to educate me about what I need to know.

My bride-of-decades and I watched a recent Phil McKnight episode in which he focused on the 2024 S2 24-08 he's wanted for the last 15 years. In the latter part of it, he mainly just played the thing. This caused my bride to put down the book she was reading and say, "If I played guitar, I'd want it to sound like that!" Then a little more listening caused her to tell me, "I want *all* of your guitars to sound like that!"

Now, please be aware that she not only puts up with me, but she also puts up with this place being knee-deep in guitars and related stuff. The very last thing I wanna do is disappoint her about this. It's only her 2nd-ever guitar wish. (Her 1st and only other guitar wish was after watching Colin (@ Guitaristas) review an Eastman SB55DC. She wanted to have one of those around... so I got one, used, at a good price. This not only made her happy, it also got me a crazy-good guitar... plus turned me on to the wonders of Eastman.)

Anyway, I cannot afford a 2024 S2 24-08 like Phil McKnight was playing. I'm a semi-old fart on a limited income, so I have to find affordable ways to do things, and S2 guitars are well beyond what I can now call affordable.

So, here's Plan B. I have a current model Santana SE (24 frets, knobs in the right place). What I'm trying to do is the best possible job of making it sound like Phil's 2024 S2 24-08.

So far, I've learned about isolated coil splits vs the usual kind. I've acquired the diagram for wiring the isolated coil split toggle switches, and I know what capacitor and resistor values are good guesses to start with. I'm now in the process of noodling about how make 2 lbs of potatoes fit into the guitar's 1 lb bag of a control cavity. So, while I'm not quite there, I'm in the neighborhood... or at least in the right zip code.

But there's one thing I can't figure out: What version of TCI pickups am I hunting to make this work best? She doesn't want me to get a 2024 S2 24-08, she just wants me to have a guitar that sounds like one. So, as you can see, this is my very verbose way of asking if somebody knows what version of TCI pickups can make my Santana SE sound most like a 2024 S2 24-08 and thus make her (and me) happy.

Thanks in advance for humoring me about this ;-)

 

[Broseph]

Paul’s pickups sound different than humbuckers. It will be very hard to approximate that. I say if you are on a budget: get a Paul’s SE and try it out! It’s great for an SE! If the pickups are not what you like: they can easily be swap to whatever you desire. All you need is a 4 lead wire pickups and it can be done.