How is the scarf joint on your Silver sky? Is it very visible?

[Mozzi]

Granted, most cost-cutting measures are a compromise in something, but not always in playability or tone. And considering the scarcity of certain woods, wouldn’t you want to stretch utilization as much as possible? My Vela looks fantastic and plays/sounds even better. The thought never crossed my mind that the scarf joint was a compromise

Compromise sounds like its making a sacrifice somewhere and, in the case of neck construction, the way PRS make their necks for S2 and Bolt-on, the compromise comes from using multiple thinner parts to create a neck. Its not just the scarf joint but the heel is added as well. Whether this is a compromise for the musician, well that is debatable.

Obviously, it is a cost cutting method of making a neck. The less wood they actually need, the cheaper it is and its cheaper to buy thinner planks than a big block of wood. It saves time too because you are not having to cut away so much.

Again though, whether its a compromise for the musician is debatable. It certainly shouldn't affect the playability because it can feel the same as a 1 piece neck. Whether it affects the sound or the sustain for example is not easy to test as guitars can vary with the same neck construction. There are multi-piece neck (and bodies for that matter) that can sound, play, feel, sustain, etc as well as single piece construction and there are necks made up of more than just 3 pieces that sound amazing too.

At most, its perhaps not quite so aesthetically pleasing to see the different shades, the grain not perfectly aligning etc but I doubt it really has much of an impact on sound and may even contribute to sound in a positive way for that model. I have seen people unhappy with multi-piece necks and bodies from an aesthetic perspective - even this thread is more about the aesthetic than the actual playability or sound of the instrument.

The compromise doesn't always have to be with the customer - you are not necessarily compromising on playability or tone for example but the compromise can be with the Luthiers who are using multi-piece neck construction because its cheaper for example

 

[Alnus Rubra]

It’s strange how we question a scarf-joint in the neck, but not a jointed top or back.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the guys who bought the run of guitars (affectionately known to me as the forum series) were three-piece backs and they were amazing.

I have a locally made acoustic that has a three piece mahogany neck (lengthways). This made no difference to me when I chose this guitar, because it was the tonality of the instrument that I was interested in.

Some boutique makers also use a scarf joint, which is believed to be stronger than a one-piece neck, especially in the area where the headstock begins.

Think of how many LP’s we’ve all seen with headstock repairs.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Compromise sounds like its making a sacrifice somewhere and, in the case of neck construction, the way PRS make their necks for S2 and Bolt-on, the compromise comes from using multiple thinner parts to create a neck. Its not just the scarf joint but the heel is added as well. Whether this is a compromise for the musician, well that is debatable.

But again, how is it a compromise? The case could be (and HAS been) well made that a scarf neck joint is the opposite of a compromise, it’s an improvement in strength. Bob Taylor and many others have spoke on this topic. And Gibson guys are humorously snobby about this... yet I’m guessing there are lots of Gibson owners over the years who had their guitars fall off a stand and then they wished they DID have a scarf neck joint.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Ha, got interrupted mid-post and didn’t see AR’s post above mine til after I posted.

 

[Mozzi]

The reason a Gibson LP is susceptible to headstock breakage is because of the design more than the fact its a 1 piece neck. You cannot lie a Gibson LP down flat on the floor because the headstock is deeper than the body. Therefore, if a Gibson LP falls backwards, all that force hits the headstock and as the neck is at its weakest (the thinnest narrowest point - as well as having a nut slot and truss rod access hole) where the neck and headstock meet, it breaks.

If the angle was much shallower and the guitar could actually lie flat on the floor, when it falls backwards, the force isn't concentrated on the headstock and therefore wouldn't break. The back of the guitar body would hit the floor first and not the headstock. If you know physics too, the speed and force at the headstock as it falls would be much higher than at the body too.

There are Guitars that don't use Scarf joints or multi-piece necks that don't have the same reputation as Gibson LP's for breaking at all. PRS Headstocks are not known for breaking at all although any headstock can be snapped off regardless of the construction with the right (or wrong) set of circumstances and enough force. I have seen quite a few Epiphone LP's that have had broken headstocks and they are made with Scarf Joints - not as common as a Gibson though...

 

[bodia]

It’s strange how we question a scarf-joint in the neck, but not a jointed top or back.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the guys who bought the run of guitars (affectionately known to me as the forum series) were three-piece backs and they were amazing.

I have a locally made acoustic that has a three piece mahogany neck (lengthways). This made no difference to me when I chose this guitar, because it was the tonality of the instrument that I was interested in.

Some boutique makers also use a scarf joint, which is believed to be stronger than a one-piece neck, especially in the area where the headstock begins.

Think of how many LP’s we’ve all seen with headstock repairs.

You are correct, 3 piece Swamp Ash backs.

 

[Olly]

Hey all,
I have owned a Silver Sky since 2019.
Having a scarf joint doesn’t bother me whatsoever although I have noticed I can feel the line on the neck.
Obviously it’s faint but enough to make a click when I run my nail over it.
I’m sure it’s solid but just wanted to make sure this wasn’t a sign of any movement? Or the lacquer sinking into the neck? Let me know your thoughts

 

[elvis]

I don’t feel anything on the scarf joint of my SS. Further, if there were a bit of a gap there, I would expect the lacquer to be smooth above the gap and the joint to be stable enough that you’d never feel it through the lacquer. Seems odd to me.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

The reason a Gibson LP is susceptible to headstock breakage is because of the design more than the fact its a 1 piece neck. You cannot lie a Gibson LP down flat on the floor because the headstock is deeper than the body. Therefore, if a Gibson LP falls backwards, all that force hits the headstock and as the neck is at its weakest (the thinnest narrowest point - as well as having a nut slot and truss rod access hole) where the neck and headstock meet, it breaks.

If the angle was much shallower and the guitar could actually lie flat on the floor, when it falls backwards, the force isn't concentrated on the headstock and therefore wouldn't break. The back of the guitar body would hit the floor first and not the headstock. If you know physics too, the speed and force at the headstock as it falls would be much higher than at the body too.

There are Guitars that don't use Scarf joints or multi-piece necks that don't have the same reputation as Gibson LP's for breaking at all. PRS Headstocks are not known for breaking at all although any headstock can be snapped off regardless of the construction with the right (or wrong) set of circumstances and enough force. I have seen quite a few Epiphone LP's that have had broken headstocks and they are made with Scarf Joints - not as common as a Gibson though...

It’s funny, the two guitars I have had that broke from falling (not prs) both broke the head stocks from falling forward off a stand, and hitting the ground (carpet!) face first.

 

[dmatthews]

I can feel the scarf joint on mine. Don't really care because I don't feel it while playing.
I once put my SS into my gig bag and forgot to zip it closed. I put the bag on my back and the SS slid out, hit the wooden floor and fell onto its headstock face first.
If I handed you my SS you'd never know it took that tumble.
The look on my lead players face was rather horrifying.

 

[elvis]

Looking at the joint, it’s quite long. You’ll never see it break.

 

[Alnus Rubra]

I can feel the scarf joint on mine. Don't really care because I don't feel it while playing.
I once put my SS into my gig bag and forgot to zip it closed. I put the bag on my back and the SS slid out, hit the wooden floor and fell onto its headstock face first.
If I handed you my SS you'd never know it took that tumble.
The look on my lead players face was rather horrifying.

Gulp!

 

[Ste76]

On my first run 500 limited the scarf is clearly visible, especially under light at the right angle. But you can't feel it at the touch, and the neck is super smooth. Never seen it in other guitars before. First time i noticed it i was a little worried, then i read a post in this forum and understood that this is how they made it safe and strong.

 

[aphantomvaper]

The reason a Gibson LP is susceptible to headstock breakage is because of the design more than the fact its a 1 piece neck. You cannot lie a Gibson LP down flat on the floor because the headstock is deeper than the body. Therefore, if a Gibson LP falls backwards, all that force hits the headstock and as the neck is at its weakest (the thinnest narrowest point - as well as having a nut slot and truss rod access hole) where the neck and headstock meet, it breaks.

If the angle was much shallower and the guitar could actually lie flat on the floor, when it falls backwards, the force isn't concentrated on the headstock and therefore wouldn't break. The back of the guitar body would hit the floor first and not the headstock. If you know physics too, the speed and force at the headstock as it falls would be much higher than at the body too.

There are Guitars that don't use Scarf joints or multi-piece necks that don't have the same reputation as Gibson LP's for breaking at all. PRS Headstocks are not known for breaking at all although any headstock can be snapped off regardless of the construction with the right (or wrong) set of circumstances and enough force. I have seen quite a few Epiphone LP's that have had broken headstocks and they are made with Scarf Joints - not as common as a Gibson though...

There was a broken PRS head stock on Reverb for a while going for $350. Jagged peice of head stock, I didn't see how it could be used on a guitar.

 

[dmatthews]

Gulp!

Yeah...
I picked it up, put it in the bag and said "I'll check it when I get home."
After a long practice night I just didn't want to look/know.

 

[RickP]

No gaps on my 2018. That’s a long glue joint there. You’re more likely to break the headstock or neck than you are that joint.