Your Feelings: Core or Imported?

[László]

PRS guitars are made in the PRS factory in Maryland, by Paul-trained employees, from lumber dried in PRS' drying rooms, sporting Paul's latest brainstorm developments, using the-highest quality everything. The finished instruments have few peers in the world. They have inspired dozens of luthiers to improve their standards of guitar-making. There are lots of reasons why the instruments are highly desirable. The greatness is in the details.

Not everyone finds that level of guitar necessary, but I do.

SEs are a different thing, made by a company that isn't PRS, to a price point, under license. There's nothing in the world wrong with that, it just isn't ever going to be my choice.

"Les, you're an elitist snob."

"Sure. So?"

 

[jak3af3r]

True - but you save money by buying smaller planks instead of buying big logs big enough to make a guitar body from. Whilst the wood is 'called' Mahogany, its also not part of the Swietenia family of Mahogany.

Point is, they can use 'Phillipine' Mahogany for example (or combinations of different woods that can pass for Mahogany) and still say it has a Mahogany back but cheaper as its not on CITEs lists and don't need to buy planks big enough to make a body...

Whether that matters or not will very much depend on the person and their personal feelings. Its just another area where 'compromise' is made to make the guitars to that price point. Its just another way of reducing the costs overall - even if there is a bit more work needed to make a body blank. The fact they have to glue on a paper thick veneer on top too adds another step but its cheaper in the long run...

Correct. This was to serve as a juxtaposition. Even though there's more labor, it's still cheaper because, like you said, the materials cost is lower.

And if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure most core models use khaya because it's more readily available. And I've seen some other brands using sapele passing it off as figured mahogany.

 

[László]

If I had the same budget and toured extensively, I'd have multiple imports as backups in case one failed. The imports are solid and I don't think by the time the audio goes through the console and onto audience ears, they'd be able to tell a difference.

Performance isn't a question of what you can get away with sonically in front of an audience. The only question that matters is: Was the performance inspired?

The artist's inspiration is precisely what the audience participates in, and went to see the performance for, or bought the record to hear. What inspires you when you perform? That's the biggest gear question that needs answering in any performance situation.

The audience didn't come to hear a guitar. They didn't come to hear something mechanical. They came to hear an inspired performance. If a great guitar adds to your inspiration, win. If not, and something else does that helps you achieve a great performance, win.

There's no right or wrong to what inspires the individual artist. If the sight of folks throwing their underwear on stage is the main thing, fine and dandy!

But there's right and wrong between playing with inspiration, and playing without it, because playing without inspiration will never, ever inspire an audience.

I don't believe that classical artists take mortgages out on 300 year old instruments because they cut through the rest of the orchestra and the audience can hear it. I think they do it because they need that inspiration night after night, and are bummed if they don't have it.

EDIT: It occurred to me that when I watch a football game, I really don't care whether it's played with a leather football or a rubber football. I want to see a great game. I want to see a game where the players "leave everything on the field."

One thing that has really inspired my orchestral writing over the past year has been finally putting together a library of great orchestral sounds. Total inspiration! I put everything I have into it, though friends in the biz have called me to ask, "What libraries are you using to get those sounds?"

I can't tell you how many times a great instrument has inspired my work over the years.

Just more examples...

 

[aphantomvaper]

Performance isn't a question of what you can get away with sonically in front of an audience. The only question that matters is: Was the performance inspired?

The artist's inspiration is precisely what the audience participates in, and went to see the performance for, or bought the record to hear. What inspires you when you perform? That's the biggest gear question that needs answering in any performance situation.

The audience didn't come to hear a guitar. They didn't come to hear something mechanical. They came to hear an inspired performance. If a great guitar adds to your inspiration, win. If not, and something else does that helps you achieve a great performance, win.

There's no right or wrong to what inspires the individual artist. If the sight of folks throwing their underwear on stage is the main thing, fine and dandy!

But there's right and wrong between playing with inspiration, and playing without it, because playing without inspiration will never, ever inspire an audience.

I don't believe that classical artists take mortgages out on 300 year old instruments because they cut through the rest of the orchestra and the audience can hear it. I think they do it because they need that inspiration night after night, and are bummed if they don't have it.

Therein lies the tale. My two cents.

I agree totally.

I'm not brand dropping here...just giving some relation to my statement.

I've purchased a 12k Alembic Further back in 2006. It was what I wanted. I've used that guitar on hundreds of gigs and it has the road wear to prove it.

I simply wanted the best tool. I didn't care about the money because I knew what human effort went into it, and what may come out of it if I do it right.

I want an ME V for the same reason and won't worry about the money. It will also be about 4 lb lighter

"I'm with you Les!"

"No you're not, we're posting on an internet forum"

"I agree with you Les!"

"Yes you do."

I hope that communicates humor, that last part, as that is the intention.

 

[László]

I agree totally.

I'm not brand dropping here...just giving some relation to my statement.

I've purchased a 12k Alembic Further back in 2006. It was what I wanted. I've used that guitar on hundreds of gigs and it has the road wear to prove it.

I simply wanted the best tool. I didn't care about the money because I knew what human effort went into it, and what may come out of it if I do it right.

I want an ME V for the same reason and won't worry about the money. It will also be about 4 lb lighter

"I'm with you Les!"

"No you're not, we're posting on an internet forum"

"I agree with you Les!"

"Yes you do."

I hope that communicates humor, that last part, as that is the intention.

I love you, man.

 

[Mozzi]

Correct. This was to serve as a juxtaposition. Even though there's more labor, it's still cheaper because, like you said, the materials cost is lower.

And if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure most core models use khaya because it's more readily available. And I've seen some other brands using sapele passing it off as figured mahogany.

Sapele, Korina, Black/White Limba etc are all similar woods and Mahogany 'like'. Khaya is African Mahogany and generally accepted as close enough to the South American Mahoganies - like Honduran. I don't know the 'relative' costs between these species but again, PRS would buy trees that are big enough to make 1 piece bodies and ship them to the US. Generally they also tend to be a bit more open too - hence you have WL guitars with Black Limba, Sapele, Korina (which is also known as Limba) etc. Cheaper guitars may just say 'Mahogany' or 'Maple' but use a genus that's not on CITEs so very cheap to procure. They could just use a white hardwood and call it 'maple' as its covered with a figured maple veneer and most of the time, the 'mahogany' back is painted over too.

I can appreciate that it may not be possible to be specific if you are making 1000's of instruments a year and relying on several species to make that many instruments. Maybe some have Honduran Mahogany, some with Cuban and some with African (Khaya) - All species considered true or generally accepted as close enough just because of quantity of instruments vs supply of Materials. But I see that as different to not being specific with woods that are tenuously called Mahogany and because you are using multiple planks to make a back, you could have very different species - like Philippine, Indian and Swamp Mahogany in the same guitar.

That's just the back bone of the instrument - everything else too can be areas to save money - Fret Wire, Tuners, Truss Rods, nut, inlay material, Pickups and materials used to make them, switches, pots, wiring, bridge etc etc can all be made cheaper too - its not just the things you can essentially upgrade yourself but the entire spine of the guitar - as well as the savings on Labour and Overheads by building guitars overseas.

Like I said though, if you compare an SE to other guitars in its price point, you will find they are very competitive and regarded as one of the best instruments you can buy at that price. Of course its not going to hold up as well when compared to a Core that is built from the best materials possible with no compromise but it can be 'good enough' for anyone to write, record and gig with. You don't expect a Dacia to compete with a BMW but it can still be 'good enough' to get you where you need to be...

 

[László]

African ribbon mahogany is actually highly desirable, often light weight, sounds amazing, looks good. I don't care what it costs to buy.

I believe I have it on all of my PS and WL guitars, and (if so) vastly prefer it to the S. American variety. I've had any number of WL guitars with BRW fretboards, but my PS models (except the acoustic) are made with Madagascar RW fretboards. It's warm and cocoa-ey sounding. I love it. the BRW is great for its spicy sound.

There are lots of desirable wood materials. Wood species are hardly the point. The question is what you do with them.

 

[jak3af3r]

Performance isn't a question of what you can get away with sonically in front of an audience. The only question that matters is: Was the performance inspired?

The artist's inspiration is precisely what the audience participates in, and went to see the performance for, or bought the record to hear. What inspires you when you perform? That's the biggest gear question that needs answering in any performance situation.

The audience didn't come to hear a guitar. They didn't come to hear something mechanical. They came to hear an inspired performance. If a great guitar adds to your inspiration, win. If not, and something else does that helps you achieve a great performance, win.

There's no right or wrong to what inspires the individual artist. If the sight of folks throwing their underwear on stage is the main thing, fine and dandy!

But there's right and wrong between playing with inspiration, and playing without it, because playing without inspiration will never, ever inspire an audience.

I don't believe that classical artists take mortgages out on 300 year old instruments because they cut through the rest of the orchestra and the audience can hear it. I think they do it because they need that inspiration night after night, and are bummed if they don't have it.

Therein lies the tale. My two cents.

I completely agree with this. I own strats but never gigged them "successfully" because I just can't get inspired the same way as with a Tele or a PRS.

I also know the feeling of bringing an inspiring guitar and have it fail mid-set and not have a decent backup and it's a mood-killer.

My intention was to provide a good sound and a good performance consistently. The biggest challenge was a degrading "leader" who always preferred everything to be incredibly loud over well-balanced. He also was of the impression you HAD to have guitar X or amp Y or it just wasn't right.

 

[László]

I completely agree with this. I own strats but never gigged them "successfully" because I just can't get inspired the same way as with a Tele or a PRS.

I also know the feeling of bringing an inspiring guitar and have it fail mid-set and not have a decent backup and it's a mood-killer.

My intention was to provide a good sound and a good performance consistently. The biggest challenge was a degrading "leader" who always preferred everything to be incredibly loud over well-balanced. He also was of the impression you HAD to have guitar X or amp Y or it just wasn't right.

No doubt!

I don't disagree at all.

 

[gush]

I'd probably go for core BUT if a guitar sounds and plays well it's a contender.

 

[RickP]

I’ve never owned a non-core besides the Silver Sky, which is technically in the “bolt-on” series. I played an SE, and it was impressive in that limited time of testing. But I’m a “get the one you want” guy, so all of my PRS guitars besides the SS are core models. I’ve never regretted that, so it’s the advice I’d give anyone asking.

I’d second the “buy used” comments above, because you can often get two (or at least one and an SE or S2) for the price of a new core. That said though, I doubt you’d ever regret a new core model.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Sergio has the nicest SE I have ever played !!!

Oh yeah? Which one?

 

[Uncle Bob]

This subject usually brings out a number of wildly inaccurate and misguided opinions, and this thread did not disappoint.

1) The notion that made in America is better. Well, let’s consider Apple. An American company with products designed by a British guy and made in China. Yep, China. Does that make it an inferior product? No. Does it make Apple not American? Would iPhones be better quality if they were made in the US? Doubtful. In fact, they would be made the same way in all likelihood (just as imported guitars are).

Don’t get me wrong though. Are core guitars a beautiful and great quality instrument? Heck yeah they are! Let’s not forget though that SE guitars are only built in the far east because manufacturing costs in America are too expensive. The notion that more expensive is automatically better is horribly misguided.

2) Paul Smith is responsible for everything at PRS guitars. Sorry, not anymore. I’m not taking anything away from the man who started the company, built the guitars, achieved greatness, however he’s really a figurehead these days.

 

[Uncle Bob]

I won’t hold a grudge against a guitar for where it happened to be made. I prefer to buy things that are high enough quality that I won’t feel compelled to buy a better one later.

Absolutely this. A lot of what makes a core model ‘better’ is purely in perception only. Something is only worth what somebody is willing to pay, therefore since people are willing to pay 4x or 5x the price of an SE for a core then it makes them worth it. But that’s really it. They aren’t 4x or 5x better, and your playing will not be 4x 5x 6x better by using one.

 

[Broseph]

Apple makes phones for different price points as well. Hell they have an SE phone. Its cheaper for a reason. Much like SE guitars are. They are not intended to compete with the higher range. Rather they aim to punch above their price point, which I think I they do well. I think expectations should be realistic for price points. That's the key.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Apple makes phones for different price points as well. Hell they have an SE phone. Its cheaper for a reason. Much like SE guitars are. They are not intended to compete with the higher range. Rather they aim to punch above their price point, which I think I they do well. I think expectations should be realistic for price points. That's the key.

Except that the lower price point phones have a tangible performance difference, or they are physically smaller, which is why they are cheaper, not because they are made using lower quality components or to a lower standard, or in a different country.

 

[Broseph]

they use older chips, cameras, screens...how are these not lower quality components? They are intentionally lower standards with the goal of making a product that would still be superior to cheaper androids that flood the markets. Much like an SE is designed to be a good introductory guitar point and way above the Squiers, Epiphones, MIM/MIJ Strats out there.

 

[Uncle Bob]

they use older chips, cameras, screens...how are these not lower quality components? They are intentionally lower standards with the goal of making a product that would still be superior to cheaper androids that flood the markets. Much like an SE is designed to be a good introductory guitar point and way above the Squiers, Epiphones, MIM/MIJ Strats out there.

Don’t confuse age with quality! They aren’t lower quality! And, this isn’t what PRS are doing with the SE range. Not in the slightest. As I said a few posts ago, there are some opinions that are horribly misguided.

 

[CandidPicker]

Absolutely this. A lot of what makes a core model ‘better’ is purely in perception only. Something is only worth what somebody is willing to pay, therefore since people are willing to pay 4x or 5x the price of an SE for a core then it makes them worth it. But that’s really it. They aren’t 4x or 5x better, and your playing will not be 4x 5x 6x better by using one.

There is some truth to this, but it may be a perceptive truth for the individual. How a guitar sounds and feels to the individual person may cause the same person to not desire anything more expensive, simply because what they may appreciate what may not cost as much.

While it may seem counter-intuitive, I like this mindset, because my Dad used to say, "Manners don't cost anything, but they're worth a lot."

they use older chips, cameras, screens...how are these not lower quality components? They are intentionally lower standards with the goal of making a product that would still be superior to cheaper androids that flood the markets. Much like an SE is designed to be a good introductory guitar point and way above the Squiers, Epiphones, MIM/MIJ Strats out there.

And to you, lower quality parts may not have the same sound or feel as more expensive ones. What may be worth more in sales value and quality to you may not be worth more in tone, sound and feel to someone else.

 

[CandidPicker]

Allow me to add that better quality materials and workmanship will add to your appreciate for nice things. While it may not make you a better player, only putting in time and energy into practice is the key to success.

Several years ago, I used to own several PRS PS...but I couldn't justify owning them because my skill level and performance ability wasn't on par with better players. These guitars were eventually sold and less expensive but still high quality guitars replaced them. It's only recently where some of PRS products have made an impression on me (viewing YT videos with better players). Still, when I would hold a PRS guitar in my hands there was something that appealed to me more than others guitars.

While it may not matter that much that core guitars sound and feel better to my ears than an import, I can't judge, since I've never held an imported PRS, only an S2. And to my ears, the core line still sounds and feels "better" than the S2. It all may depend on the model, but given certain form, function and configuration, the core line (and the SE HBII) is good enough in my instance.