PRS SE Models - Do They Have the Same “Essence” As Core Models?

[( . )( . )]

I’m sure that I’m going to get a lot of hate for this thread, but so be it.

SE guitars are great. I’ve played many of them from a range of eras, and IMO, they are about as good as it gets for import guitars in their respective price range…actually, they’re probably the best out there. That said, I feel that they aren’t on par with Core PRS - they might be 80% there, but that last 20% makes a huge difference to me.

But…(and this is where I’m likely to upset people), they are are manufactured by WMI and Cor-Tek in Korea and Indonesia, then shipped to the PRS plant for final inspection and setup.

If PRS were to create their own factory overseas, and employ their own workforce over there, I wonder if the SE line would feel the same to me as the Core line. And yes, I realize that PRS probably works harder with Cor-Tek than any other company works with their respective import company..but that doesn’t change the fact that these guitars are not made by PRS proper. They are made by Cor-Tek.

As much as I hate to cite Gibson here, there is never a doubt about Gibson vs Epiphone in terms of where the instrument is manufactured. If you get a Gibson, it’s always made in the US at the Gibson factory.

Now, does this matter? Not really, I guess. But IMO Core PRS are different enough from SE models that I cannot consider them to be the same “thing”, but created at a cheaper price point. I suppose I dislike SE models being considered by many as Core models on a budget because I believe that a good Core PRS is about the best production guitar ever made, whereas a good SE (while a very nice instrument) just isn’t up to those standards.

Edited to attempt to hopefully not make people as upset about my opinions.

 

[Toolmaster Of Brainerd]

Just wait until you learn about Boutique Amps Distribution

 

[( . )( . )]

Just wait until you learn about Boutique Amps Distribution

? Please inform me…

 

[andy474x]

They’ve basically done exactly what you’re saying.

I suppose you can cite ownership of the factory and employer of the workforce as Cort, but the factory is dedicated to PRS, and it would be cost prohibitive (counter to the mission of the SE line) for PRS to have their own business entity entirely, rather than work with Cort. I don’t think the guitars would be made any differently, though.

 

[( . )( . )]

They’ve basically done exactly what you’re saying.

I suppose you can cite ownership of the factory and employer of the workforce as Cort, but the factory is dedicated to PRS, and it would be cost prohibitive (counter to the mission of the SE line) for PRS to have their own business entity entirely, rather than work with Cort. I don’t think the guitars would be made any differently, though.

I’ve seen the video, and I’m indeed impressed. But until I play an SE that feels like a Core, I just can’t consider them as the same thing. Again, the difference isn’t huge, but it’s very obvious to me when I play them.

This isn’t about the electronics, hardware, finish, or setup. It’s about how a good Core feels, vibrates, resonates, etc. when playing it. They don’t all respond the same, but I’m yet to feel an SE that does this like a good Core model. If I find one, I’ll certainly change my mind.

 

[aamefford]

I’m confused.
SE = $1000-ish
Core = $3000-ish on up?

Why would you expect them to be essentially the same?

If your struggle is just the PRS name on both, I can sort of see your issue. I think the SE on the headstock covers that pretty well though.

Edit - not trying to sound dickish, just in case it did. Tact is not always a strong suit of mine…

 

[Lewguitar]

SE's are wonderful Student guitars that can be made into 100% professional instruments by upgrading the pickups and other parts.

The woodworking is first rate on the SE's I own, altho every few thousand guitars, a lemon or two seems to slip through. Never owned a bad or even disappointing SE myself.

The pickups are the weakest point, just as they have always been in with student guitars like Gibson's Melody Makers and Fender's Duo Sonics and MusicMasters. That's where corners have always been cut.

But most SE's are way better than those cheapie student Fenders and Gibsons of yesteryear.

I own three Core PRS guitars and eight SE's.

I'll put my SE's up against ANY guitar after I've finished hot rodding it.

Shoot...truth is i sold my Stripped 58 because IMO my hot rodded SE Bernie Marsdens kicked its butt.

 

[Toolmaster Of Brainerd]

? Please inform me…

It's one factory that manufactures a lot of the boutique amp and pedal brands. I don't know exactly which companies they manufacture for and which companies they only distribute for, but they're affiliated with Friedman, Wampler, Bogner, Soldano, Morgan, and a few others too.

If a Friedman amp is made in a factory that they don't run, are you really getting a real Friedman?

 

[Toolmaster Of Brainerd]

Another view: even a core PRS isn't a real PRS. It is made by a CNC machine and a lot of skilled workers, but Paul himself isn't building them. Heck, even a private stock isn't a real PRS. Paul plays them all, but he isn't carving the neck profile or fitting the neck to the body. If it wasn't hand built by Paul himself, it isn't an authentic PRS!

My point is that the gatekeeping is silly and pointless. Paul put his name on the SE guitars. He's calling them his own. That's good enough for me.

 

[László]

This reminds me of a classic philosophical question that I'll paraphrase:

If The Argo, the boat used to capture the Golden Fleece, is preserved in Piraeus' harbor, and periodically worn-out or rotted wooden parts are replaced in the exact same way they were originally made, over time, every part will be replaced and none of the original parts will remain.

Is the boat still The Argo?

I'll pose my own question: If by law, treaty and recognized custom all over the world, PRS has the right to license its brand to anyone it wants to, is the resulting product a PRS?

Logically, the answer is yes.

Is it the ORIGINAL, Maryland PRS?

Logically the answer is, "That's a different question."

I think it's fair to distinguish between the licensed-build PRS' and the Maryland PRS'. But they're all PRS' once PRS licenses the branding.

Nonetheless, I can't answer the question about the boat.

 

[( . )( . )]

I’m confused.
SE = $1000-ish
Core = $3000-ish on up?

Why would you expect them to be essentially the same?

If your struggle is just the PRS name on both, I can sort of see your issue. I think the SE on the headstock covers that pretty well though.

I have never purchased a new Core PRS. I paid:

$925 2001 McCarty Standard
$1150 1997 CE24
$1400 2011 CU22 10 Top
$1600 (trade value) 2004 Hollowbody 2
$1750 1991 CU24 10 Top

But this isn’t about the price of things. It’s about the fact that if the 5 above listed guitars, 3 of them felt like I was expressing myself through the instruments…the way they resonated and vibrated…don’t know how else to say it.

I’ve just never had an SE to feel that way.

 

[Stephen J.]

The statement about the origin of SE guitars on the back of the headstock is clear enough for me to be comfortable with the brand name on the front of the headstock.

 

[( . )( . )]

Again, this isn’t about wood, hardware, electronics, finish, etc. It’s about “feel” and connection to the instrument as a part of myself… I know it sounds pretentious and silly, but it’s what I’ve experienced. I’ve felt multiple Core PRS models to do that special thing, along with several vintage Gibson Juniors (50s/60s), Archtops (20s/30s) and old Martins (30s-60s) that I’ve owned or played.

The reason that I’m so fond of Core PRS is because they are the only modern guitars I’ve ever played that do what the old “good” guitars do…and they seem to do it at a high percentage. If I felt an SE do that “thing” for me, I would be very happy. It just has never happened so far with an SE, and therefore, I feel like they’re not the “same” thing.

EDIT: I’ve had 2 old Hamers that felt this way as well.

 

[RC Mike]

The fascinating thing about it all to me is the evolution of it. I can only imagine the internal discussions about the SEs and if they dilute/cannibalize the brand. I think, given the backlog of Maryland PRS orders, that there isn’t much debate left.

They’ve really entered a new era that began with the SE Paul’s Guitar. Moving Core (and now Bolt-On) models down-market. It’s accelerated quite a bit, so PRS must feel it‘s been successful for them.

Once Paul is no-longer involved, I suspect that even more SE-creep will happen up the product line, rather than Core-creep into the SE line. That’s already happened with the S2s and part of the Bolt-Ons. Maybe S2s will start to have veneer tops.

 

[ViperDoc]

Licensing is good business. It keeps the cost of the SE line down. Plus, the SE line was never intended to supplant the Core line, which it would do if you could create a core level guitar for a $799 price point—which you can’t. It’s a needed niche in the market. My SEs are Korean made and
are fantastic, and my cores are even better. If Paul’s selling it, it’s a PRS. Plain and simple.

 

[WEDGE]

Squirt

 

[GuitarJammin]

I recently bought a Zach Meyers SE that was pretty much a fail for me. Every other person that played it loved it, that made it easy to trade it away quickly. I love my 02' SE soapbar, but it isn't a core. I agree with OP in that an SE is a different guitar, I go further though and haven't had luck in the S2 line. I've had core models I didn't get along with either, and some that knock it outta the park. Every Private stock I've played has been freakin magic (I own 2 but still want a CU24 PS). On the flip side, I've heard others say they didn't bond with their PS.

It all becomes about what the player connects to. This perception of "guitar magic" will vary wildly across players. Some players will pick up an SE and feel that magic. Should a SE wear the PRS moniker? That's Paul's decision 110%. I see lot's of players love the SEs. Paul being in business serving players for as long as he has, probably has the insight on creating that "magic" for different players across the board. Just play what you like.

OP has done really great in buying cores in SE/S2 price ranges. Props!

 

[( . )( . )]

Squirt

?

 

[( . )( . )]

I recently bought a Zach Meyers SE that was pretty much a fail for me. Every other person that played it loved it, that made it easy to trade it away quickly. I love my 02' SE soapbar, but it isn't a core. I agree with OP in that an SE is a different guitar, I go further though and haven't had luck in the S2 line. I've had core models I didn't get along with either, and some that knock it outta the park. Every Private stock I've played has been freakin magic (I own 2 but still want a CU24 PS). On the flip side, I've heard others say they didn't bond with their PS.

It all becomes about what the player connects to. This perception of "guitar magic" will vary wildly across players. Some players will pick up an SE and feel that magic. Should a SE wear the PRS moniker? That's Paul's decision 110%. I see lot's of players love the SEs. Paul being in business serving players for as long as he has, probably has the insight on creating that "magic" for different players across the board. Just play what you like. OP has done really great in buying cores in SE/S2 price ranges. Props!

I completely agree here. It’s just that I’ve felt that magic with a large percentage of Core models that I’ve played, but never once so far experienced it with an SE.

 

[( . )( . )]

The fascinating thing about it all to me is the evolution of it. I can only imagine the internal discussions about the SEs and if they dilute/cannibalize the brand. I think, given the backlog of Maryland PRS orders, that there isn’t much debate left.

They’ve really entered a new era that began with the SE Paul’s Guitar. Moving Core (and now Bolt-On) models down-market. It’s accelerated quite a bit, so PRS must feel it‘s been successful for them.

Once Paul is no-longer involved, I suspect that even more SE-creep will happen up the product line, rather than Core-creep into the SE line. That’s already happened with the S2s and part of the Bolt-Ons. Maybe S2s will start to have veneer tops.

I didn’t want to bring S2’s or the modern CE’s into the conversation, but again, I have yet to play one that feels like a Core model. That said, I’ve only played a few of each, so I can’t really be a judge here.