PRS SE Models - Do They Have the Same “Essence” As Core Models?

[bodia]

JFC, this thread can’t even die a slow death……

 

[SixStringSlinger]

I am trying to wrap my head around how you justify this. They are all copies regardless of where they are made. You seem to need justification of your expenditure. Paul Reed Smith himself authorized the SE line. Higgenbotham (a very high PRS employee) oversees it. How is that not PRS? It doesnt matter what plot of ground its made on. This smacks of that idiotic "play authentic" crap gibson espouses. Pay me extra money simply because it says my name on the headstock. Paul is saying pay me and I will build you the best guitar I am capable of building. However, if you just want a damn good guitar at a reasonable price I can build that to.
You are the problem. You need justification for the money you spent.

You seem to be very effected on a personal level it’s so sad. I was responding to the initial posters question with my opinion. You have yours and I have mine, it’s all good.

I never mentioned the cost difference of them at all.

I certainly don’t need, or have to justify what money I spend to anyone. I save hard for everything I want to buy. It is all merely my opinion and it stands as is. Doesn’t have to be right or wrong for you, it just has to stand as my opinion and be right or wrong for me. Just as you have your opinion. Whether you disagree with me I is of no importance to me.

Do you have to justify, why you don’t want to spend so much money? I said at the beginning they are excellent made instruments but they are made by Cort and not Prs. Do PRS own Cort? I suspect not. That would say that they are two different and separate companies. The one, ie Cort, builds guitars for the other, (Cort build them, get it?) for PRS. Who then labels them up with their name on. And Corts details on the back so you know who really made them. Let’s not kid ourselves here who made them.

If it smacks of the idiotic play authentic Gibson, then clearly you dont understand the importance of playing or purchasing any authentic product. I would rather play authentic PRS made by Prs. Than PRS made by Cort. But that’s just my personal preference and how I view it. It’s perfect choice for me and how I feel. If you like what ever guitars you have then that’s good too. More power to you that you are happy with them

Does Paul have to justify to you why there is such a price difference between the USA PRS models and the Cort made SE models?
Go Ask Paul why he thinks the USA models are worth so much more than the SE Cort made Models.

I think your reaction is all down to the thing that you personally don’t like, and that’s is the fact that you have to pay extra for an authentic product. You want to believe that your SE is an authentic PRS USA made Maryland product, But it’s not and the price difference reflects that. Because to me being able to say and play my instrument and know that it originates from the Prs USA Maryland plant,is important to me. And I’m prepared to save up, wait and pay that bit extra once I have the funds to buy what I want. You could always ask Paul to drop all of the USA PRS prices down to the Cort made PRS prices, to convince him that his pricing isn’t and can’t be justified and he may just do that just for you


Peace

 

[shimmilou]

....My feeling is. if it does not originate from the original factory, then it is not a PRS made guitar, it is, and always will be a Cort guitar with a PRS name on it...

The original factory is no more, so there are no real PRS since they moved to the new factory?

 

[RC Mike]

I am trying to wrap my head around how you justify this. They are all copies regardless of where they are made. You seem to need justification of your expenditure. Paul Reed Smith himself authorized the SE line. Higgenbotham (a very high PRS employee) oversees it. How is that not PRS? It doesnt matter what plot of ground its made on. This smacks of that idiotic "play authentic" crap gibson espouses. Pay me extra money simply because it says my name on the headstock. Paul is saying pay me and I will build you the best guitar I am capable of building. However, if you just want a damn good guitar at a reasonable price I can build that to.
You are the problem. You need justification for the money you spent.

Why is there a problem, and why do you think that problem is a person? Is it because they have a different opinion?

SSS is right about the SEs. PRS doesn't build them. I'd wager that PRS didn't actually design them, either. PRS placed an order with a contract factory. Why? Because they want the profits of selling their name--not their guitars. Products like the SEs trade off of name and reputation. When it became more profitable to move production from Korea to Indonesia, that's what they did. In another 20 years, perhaps they'll be made in Africa or wherever cheap labor exists then.

Why do you think they lacked a signature on the headstock for so long? Because there were people inside PRS that were uncomfortable with the whole idea. As the company has changed, they've gotten pretty comfortable with the money that comes from the SE line.

 

[SixStringSlinger]

Well I think we can certainly say that Prs and Cort are two different companies. The site location of the Prs factory isn’t the point.

The point is that Cort are not PRs. But Cort are making a guitar manufactured by them for Prs, that Prs USA did not manufacture.

However PRs USA guitars are all made by PRS in the USA and none are made by Cort, because they are different companies.

I guess it all comes down to if you want a PRs made by Prs, or you want. Prs made by another company.

Peace.

 

[SixStringSlinger]

Why is there a problem, and why do you think that problem is a person? Is it because they have a different opinion?

SSS is right about the SEs. PRS doesn't build them. I'd wager that PRS didn't actually design them, either. PRS placed an order with a contract factory. Why? Because they want the profits of selling their name--not their guitars. Products like the SEs trade off of name and reputation. When it became more profitable to move production from Korea to Indonesia, that's what they did. In another 20 years, perhaps they'll be made in Africa or wherever cheap labor exists then.

Why do you think they lacked a signature on the headstock for so long? Because there were people inside PRS that were uncomfortable with the whole idea. As the company has changed, they've gotten pretty comfortable with the money that comes from the SE line.

I Completely agree with you.

 

[SixStringSlinger]

I thought the Cort manufacturing facility had a special division, only for the PRS SE guitars. I recently saw a PRS video where Paul stated they called them every day, to work on improvement and initially went and showed them some manufacturing techniques. He never said they were moving manufacturing to Africa! :-D

Yes I saw that too. It was an interesting watch. I thought the quality of the SE product, the skills of the assemblers, and the facility was brilliant. But it’s still Cort who are manufacturing them. It’s a testament to Cort that they can build such quality instruments for someone like PRS. People should be thanking Cort for producing such good instruments, as PRS certainly didn’t make them. They produce their own range of guitars too I believe.

When you buy an SE your buying it for the Prs name on the headstock, not because it’s made by PRS. One is happy because it looks like a Prs, but it is a copy none the less, made by an entirely different company and factory. ie Cort.

On the flip side, Yes, if you buy a USA PRS made guitar, you are also buying it for the name on the headstock, but it is a real PRS made by Prs at their factory, by their team. And that’s what you pay for. Authentic product.

Nothing wrong with the SE line though. I may pick one up myself at some point. But I won’t be kidding myself it’s made by PRS

 

[SinSir]

JFC, this thread can’t even die a slow death……

I'm not one for censorship but it's time to lock the damn thing when people are signing up slinging out the gate like it's FB.

 

[bodia]

I'm not one for censorship but it's time to lock the damn thing when people are signing up slinging out the gate like it's FB.

Agreed

 

[SixStringSlinger]

I'm not one for censorship but it's time to lock the damn thing when people are signing up slinging out the gate like it's FB.

But you clearly are one for censorship. This is exactly what you are suggesting. Censorship of comments that you don’t like. It’s Not on is it. People are entitled to their opinion. Even right out of the gate. If you don’t want to see any more responses , maybe a better thing to do, is stop following the thread.

 

[revtime]

Entitled people are entitled to thier entitled opinion. You just said Cort made PRS and US made PRS. YOU SAID THAT. Its a PRS. Officially condoned by the owner of PRS. No matter how much you want to keep folks out of your special club you can not and that twists your panties up. Im the ******* that kicks down the door of your clubhouse and proves my lowly special edition PRS can hang with your 4k guitar. Yours may be prettier than mine but I also have 3k more money in my pocket to buy beers.

 

[RC Mike]

But you clearly are one for censorship. This is exactly what you are suggesting. Censorship of comments that you don’t like. It’s Not on is it. People are entitled to their opinion. Even right out of the gate. If you don’t want to see any more responses , maybe a better thing to do, is stop following the thread.

You don’t have a clue as to what SinSir is talking about. You registered here, what, a moment ago? This forum is a unique online community, in my experience. There isn’t much conflict, it’s largely self-policing, and people are kind, thoughtful, and genuinely helpful towards one another. There’s a level of self-restraint that is rare.

That’s the culture here. This thread isn’t really reflective of that and is a bit destructive. One of the things the regulars here like and appreciate is the relative calm and sense of… it’s not peace, but rather harmony/purpose here.

I’ve only been around a few years. I’m still a newbie in this community—many of these folks go way, way back together. One of the components of being part of this community is the self-restraint to really behave as though we’re all in person together, rather than relax into the behaviors that anonymity encourages.

It is a very, very cool forum and group of people. Unlike any other I’m part of.

 

[bodia]

You don’t have a clue as to what SinSir is talking about. You registered here, what, a moment ago? This forum is a unique online community, in my experience. There isn’t much conflict, it’s largely self-policing, and people are kind, thoughtful, and genuinely helpful towards one another. There’s a level of self-restraint that is rare.

That’s the culture here. This thread isn’t really reflective of that and is a bit destructive. One of the things the regulars here like and appreciate is the relative calm and sense of… it’s not peace, but rather harmony/purpose here.

I’ve only been around a few years. I’m still a newbie in this community—many of these folks go way, way back together. One of the components of being part of this community is the self-restraint to really behave as though we’re all in person together, rather than relax into the behaviors that anonymity encourages.

It is a very, very cool forum and group of people. Unlike any other I’m part of.

Very well said, and thank you for your post!

 

[SixStringSlinger]

Entitled people are entitled to thier entitled opinion. You just said Cort made PRS and US made PRS. YOU SAID THAT. It’s a PRS. Officially condoned by the owner of PRS. No matter how much you want to keep folks out of your special club you can not and that twists your panties up. Im the ******* that kicks down the door of your clubhouse and proves my lowly special edition PRS can hang with your 4k guitar. Yours may be prettier than mine but I also have 3k more money in my pocket to buy beers.

Entitled people, what does that mean? Is that a low ball personal comment again directed at me? come on, be a bit better person than that. I’m as far from entitled as I could be. Everything I own I’ve worked for and saved hard for, no one ever gave me a free hand up that’s for sure. just like most folks who work hard every day. I’ve traded gear to make money, done loads of things to make a little money here and there towards my hobby etc. until I get what I’m saving for. I think your response is a bit desperate, and shows that I’m not the one who’s a bit bent out of shape here. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and you have yours too, and that’s all good. But Don’t get personal. I certainly would not want to be wasting 3k of my money just on beer, when I have a nice guitar in mind that I’m trying to save for. But to each their own. That’s the choice you made. So Enjoy your 3k and your Cort Guitar, and be happy with it.

I’m not so sure you would be able to kick my special club house door down dude. How funny

Peace

 

[Victor Vector]

~ come on people now, smile on your brother everybody get together try n love one another right now ~

 

[SixStringSlinger]

You don’t have a clue as to what SinSir is talking about. You registered here, what, a moment ago? This forum is a unique online community, in my experience. There isn’t much conflict, it’s largely self-policing, and people are kind, thoughtful, and genuinely helpful towards one another. There’s a level of self-restraint that is rare.

That’s the culture here. This thread isn’t really reflective of that and is a bit destructive. One of the things the regulars here like and appreciate is the relative calm and sense of… it’s not peace, but rather harmony/purpose here.

I’ve only been around a few years. I’m still a newbie in this community—many of these folks go way, way back together. One of the components of being part of this community is the self-restraint to really behave as though we’re all in person together, rather than relax into the behaviors that anonymity encourages.

It is a very, very cool forum and group of people. Unlike any other I’m part of.

Thank you for explaining. I shall take on board your kind advice going forward.

However i would say that I have made no personal or rude, or derogatory comments to anyone. I have had a few directed at myself however. So it may be worth directing the self restraint comment at them and not myself.

I have discussed manufacturing of the guitars and my thoughts on that. People are clearly offended by this discussion. Not sure how that is being destructive to be honest. I thought a forum was to discuss anything that is relevant to topic.

I’ll try to do better.

Regards.

 

[SixStringSlinger]

~ come on people now, smile on your brother everybody get together try n love one another right now ~

Agreed.

 

[revtime]

Entitled people, what does that mean? Is that a low ball personal comment again directed at me? come on, be a bit better person than that. I’m as far from entitled as I could be. Everything I own I’ve worked for and saved hard for, no one ever gave me a free hand up that’s for sure. just like most folks who work hard every day. I’ve traded gear to make money, done loads of things to make a little money here and there towards my hobby etc. until I get what I’m saving for. I think your response is a bit desperate, and shows that I’m not the one who’s a bit bent out of shape here. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and you have yours too, and that’s all good. But Don’t get personal. I certainly would not want to be wasting 3k of my money just on beer, when I have a nice guitar in mind that I’m trying to save for. But to each their own. That’s the choice you made. So Enjoy your 3k and your Cort Guitar, and be happy with it.

I’m not so sure you would be able to kick my special club house door down dude. How funny

Peace

You have no idea of my resources or my desire to use them. Be very careful what you ask for.
Now you dont have to have money to act entitled. You started this and now want to tuck tail.
Just admit you are wrong and move on.

 

[gtrdave]

I think the SE line are clearly well made instruments, there is no doubt in that.

We question these things I think, because something doesn’t balance between our gut feeling, with the name that we see on the headstock ie PRS, and where we actually know who has made it ie Cort.

Now, what if Gibson started to put just Gibson on all of the Epiphone guitars. Would that mean that they are now Gibson guitars? Or would we be feeling like we are being deceived? Because we know it was made by Epiphone and not Gibson, and it should be labelled as an Epiphone.

My feeling is. if it does not originate from the original factory, then it is not a PRS made guitar, it is, and always will be a Cort guitar with a PRS name on it.

Much the same way the Epiphone will always be an Epiphone, even if it has the Gibson name on it, because it was not made by Gibson. Same goes for squire, etc

It doesn’t mean that any of these instruments are junk, but for me I had an Epiphone les Paul, which was a nice guitar, but by brain and heart was telling me that this is not a Gibson les Paul, I felt like I was using a fake Gibson guitar. I had no choice but to save for the real deal. The impact on my psychology now knowing that I was playing a real Gibson, improved my attitude towards my guitar and my playing.

It’s the same for my PRS guitars. I buy USA models because I don’t want the feeling that I’m playing a copy of one, made by another company like Cort. Why not just release the SE line with the Cort name on? and sell them as licences by Prs. Do you think they would sell? No because it would be clear that they are not PRS.

At the end of the day if you want a real PRS you have to buy a USA Maryland built Prs. Otherwise you are just fooling yourself that it is one.

Does it mean if PRS licenced me, and I make a PRS, exact copy and, and I mean an exact copy, and put the PRS name on it, would that mean it is a PRS? Even though it’s been made in my shed. Of course it wouldn’t. And if they didn’t licence me, i would rightly end up in court, with PRS suing me because it was not a PRS.

So buy original USA Maryland PRS because anything else is a copy made by someone else, whatever way you try and sugar coat it, whatever name you want to put on it, it’s always just a copy.

Peace.

So many words and yet so little truth. Don't get me wrong; I know this is your truth that you've convinced yourself of in your own mind, but it certainly is not the truth as far as it relates to reality and how business and licensing and marketing all function successfully in the world.
A PRS SE model exists under the PRS banner as much as an Epiphone exists under the Gibson banner and a Squier and MIM Fender exist under the Fender banner. In this arrangement there are no fakes or copies or clones, etc...but they are simply products produced by the parent companies in a variety of global locations to target different price points in order to reach a diverse set of buyers in various budget ranges.
Martin and Taylor both make guitars in Mexico because the overall labor costs are cheaper and allow them to sell a few models to buyers who may not want to or can not yet spend $1000+ on an instrument, but they are still Martin and Taylor guitars even if they're not made in the USA.
They are not copies.
If you feel that you have to buy USA-made guitars only, more power to you, but to explain away your preference in the way that you have is a real head scratcher.
And I wish you the best.

 

[SixStringSlinger]

So many words and yet so little truth. Don't get me wrong; I know this is your truth that you've convinced yourself of in your own mind, but it certainly is not the truth as far as it relates to reality and how business and licensing and marketing all function successfully in the world.
A PRS SE model exists under the PRS banner as much as an Epiphone exists under the Gibson banner and a Squier and MIM Fender exist under the Fender banner. In this arrangement there are no fakes or copies or clones, etc...but they are simply products produced by the parent companies in a variety of global locations to target different price points in order to reach a diverse set of buyers in various budget ranges.
Martin and Taylor both make guitars in Mexico because the overall labor costs are cheaper and allow them to sell a few models to buyers who may not want to or can not yet spend $1000+ on an instrument, but they are still Martin and Taylor guitars even if they're not made in the USA.
They are not copies.
If you feel that you have to buy USA-made guitars only, more power to you, but to explain away your preference in the way that you have is a real head scratcher.
And I wish you the best.

The companies you mention all own those varios plants. They are owned by Fender and Gibson. They disclose them as what they are ie squier, epiphone, etc they do not try to market them as Fender or Gibson. Epiphone is marketed under the Epiphone banner, squier is marketed under the squire banner. However PRS do not own Cort nor is Cort a subsiduary of PRS, and yet PRS want to sell you a guitar that they dont even make, by a company they dont own, as A PRS. Im fully aware of how marketing works. This is completely the truth you just dont understand it for what it is. its not that i wish to buy only USA made products. i think you neet to scratch your head again. They make product in different locatiins to make more profit its never for the benefit of the buyer, dont be so gullible. what poor labour rate of pay are these people having to work so we can have these cheap products. The corporate ismfocussed on profit.