To hear or not to hear.....yep, that’s the question.

[RaySachs]

I haven't played with a band in years, but frankly back in the day I think I did far more damage to my ears going to shows listening to other bands than anything that happened with the guys I played with. We never played that loud - just loud enough to hear over the drummer and I guess I never played with an obnoxiously loud drummer. But I went to a LOT of concerts in those years too and a few of them were really horribly painfully loud. I remember waking up the morning after an awful lot of them with my ears ringing and not feeling back to normal for a day or more. The very worst was a Grateful Dead show with Santana opening in 1988 - the Dead usually had about the best sound in the business but this was in the Tacoma Dome and the sound was beyond horrible. I was in so much pain I walked out during the set break, came back in when they started playing again in the second set, and walked right back out. It's the only time I ever left a Dead show early. There were a lot of other bad ones, but that was the worst, and if you look at the various taper / review sites, the terrible sound is what pretty much every review of that show talks about.

And, yeah, at 59, my hearing isn't good. I have to turn the TV up louder than my wife would like. I can converse with another person without a problem but when I'm in a group of people, I often have trouble following the conversation. I'm sure I'm heading for hearing aids but I'm trying to hold off as long as I can. I doubt anything I'm doing today is doing me more harm, but the harm's been done...

-Ray

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I suppose I’m equal parts lucky and wise. I tried to wear earplugs as often as possible, and usually mixed and tracked at reasonable levels.

The band I play with now is so adult contemporary that I could hear the crowd talking over us onstage at our last show, so I go raw dog with them.

 

[Lee B.]

I don’t use hearing protection, but I also seldom use more than 2-3 watts of power when playing at home. If I played out with a bigger amp and an acoustic drummer, I’d definitely start trying out ear plugs and monitors.

 

[Lee B.]

I haven't played with a band in years, but frankly back in the day I think I did far more damage to my ears going to shows listening to other bands than anything that happened with the guys I played with. We never played that loud - just loud enough to hear over the drummer and I guess I never played with an obnoxiously loud drummer. But I went to a LOT of concerts in those years too and a few of them were really horribly painfully loud. I remember waking up the morning after an awful lot of them with my ears ringing and not feeling back to normal for a day or more. The very worst was a Grateful Dead show with Santana opening in 1988 - the Dead usually had about the best sound in the business but this was in the Tacoma Dome and the sound was beyond horrible. I was in so much pain I walked out during the set break, came back in when they started playing again in the second set, and walked right back out. It's the only time I ever left a Dead show early. There were a lot of other bad ones, but that was the worst, and if you look at the various taper / review sites, the terrible sound is what pretty much every review of that show talks about.

And, yeah, at 59, my hearing isn't good. I have to turn the TV up louder than my wife would like. I can converse with another person without a problem but when I'm in a group of people, I often have trouble following the conversation. I'm sure I'm heading for hearing aids but I'm trying to hold off as long as I can. I doubt anything I'm doing today is doing me more harm, but the harm's been done...

-Ray

Yeah, the sound guys definitely crank the level in the Tacoma Dome, where mids and treble frequencies go to die a slow, muddy death. Even that Billy Joel/Elton John show back 2001 or so was crazy loud in that building.

 

[RaySachs]

Yeah, the sound guys definitely crank the level in the Tacoma Dome, where mids and treble frequencies go to die a slow, muddy death. Even that Billy Joel/Elton John show back 2001 or so was crazy loud in that building.

I saw plenty of other shows in the building that didn't sound bad at all, though. Springstreen in '84 sounded fantastic and pretty good in '88 too, Tina Turner at some point, Robert Cray in '91 or 92. They seemed to be able to make it work and if anyone could, you'd kind of figure the Dead could pull it off. But that night was just horrendously bad. And it was like they tried to overload the high frequencies to compensate or something, but it was the most painful thing I've ever heard...

-Ray

 

[pac90]

I think some of mine has been earbuds on treadmill blasting away, stopped that a few years ago but too late for me.

Work has always been noisey, wear protection religiously but lost some high freq so if there is loud background noise its hard to not let that drown out speech etc plus some tinnitus....sucks but manageable

 

[Alnus Rubra]

Noisy drummer between ‘94 and ‘01, so I know there’s damage.

Lower volumes since then and hopefully a reduction in any further ear nonsense!

A new band is on the horizon, so I’m very interested in the eargasm and etymotic plugs!

Thanks guys.

 

[László]

Remember, folks, that it’s not just volume; some medications are ototoxic, and can cause substantial hearing loss.

And there’s probably a genetic element.

Incidentally, many WWI and WWII vets had hearing loss due to the artillery. My grandfather was a WW!-era vet who needed a hearing aid to function around other people. They didn’t offer hearing protection back then.

But every cloud has a silver lining.

Gramps quickly learned that by judicious use of the volume control on his hearing aid, he could tune my grandmother completely out.

One day when I was a little kid, I slept over, and my grandmother was giving him a hard time about some damn thing. He stood there smiling the whole time.

After she finished her tirade, gramps said, “I turned my hearing aid off, Dorothy. I wasn’t listening to a damn thing you said.” He then chuckled and walked out of the room. I’ll never forget the nonplused expression on my grandmother’s face.

I remember imagining things from his point of view; my grandmother, standing there, yelling at him, probably gesticulating, and for him it was like watching a silent movie.

 

[Alnus Rubra]

I think I’ve probably shared this story before about my Dad. He is 76 years old and has chronic hearing loss, coupled with really bad tinnitus!

He plays an electro-acoustic, classical guitar as he finds the lack of overtones and harmonics created with a steel string guitar, easier to comprehend. His hearing loss, also causes him to hear out of tune. Very confusing as you can imagine.

I helped him purchase a guitar and and amplification system, that allowed him to play guitar again after many years of believing he never would.

Seeing his plight has made me very aware of how careful we should be with our hearing.

He also tunes my Mum out when it suits! Les’ story made me laugh, because it’s so similar to what Dad does!!

 

[RaySachs]

One day when I was a little kid, I slept over, and my grandmother was giving him a hard time about some damn thing. He stood there smiling the whole time.

After she finished her tirade, gramps said, “I turned my hearing aid off, Dorothy. I wasn’t listening to a damn thing you said.” He then chuckled and walked out of the room. I’ll never forget the nonplused expression on my grandmother’s face.

I remember imagining things from his point of view; my grandmother, standing there, yelling at him, probably gesticulating, and for him it was like watching a silent movie.

My ears don't do that when my wife is giving me some information that she considers critical and I, evidently, don't. But my brain does. I must hear it all, but my brain seems to decide to do an X-Men thing on a lot of it and zap it so it's like it never happened. I seem to be powerless to control this!

 

[László]

My ears don't do that when my wife is giving me some information that she considers critical and I, evidently, don't. But my brain does. I must hear it all, but my brain seems to decide to do an X-Men thing on a lot of it and zap it so it's like it never happened. I seem to be powerless to control this!

How’s a guy supposed to remember crucial stuff, like the date codes for Mullard 12AX7s produced in the Blackburn factory in 1962, if he also has to remember, “We’re going to my sister’s for dinner 3 weeks from tomorrow.”

The brain protects itself by refusing to fire the memory synapses for stuff that would cause it to lose the truly critical data!

 

[bodia]

How’s a guy supposed to remember crucial stuff, like the date codes for Mullard 12AX7s produced in the Blackburn factory in 1962, if he also has to remember, “We’re going to my sister’s for dinner 3 weeks from tomorrow.”

The brain protects itself by refusing to fire the memory synapses for stuff that would cause it to lose the truly critical data!

Ain't this the truth!

 

[bodia]

Remember, folks, that it’s not just volume; some medications are ototoxic, and can cause substantial hearing loss.

And there’s probably a genetic element.

Incidentally, many WWI and WWII vets had hearing loss due to the artillery. My grandfather was a WW!-era vet who needed a hearing aid to function around other people. They didn’t offer hearing protection back then.

But every cloud has a silver lining.

Gramps quickly learned that by judicious use of the volume control on his hearing aid, he could tune my grandmother completely out.

One day when I was a little kid, I slept over, and my grandmother was giving him a hard time about some damn thing. He stood there smiling the whole time.

After she finished her tirade, gramps said, “I turned my hearing aid off, Dorothy. I wasn’t listening to a damn thing you said.” He then chuckled and walked out of the room. I’ll never forget the nonplused expression on my grandmother’s face.

I remember imagining things from his point of view; my grandmother, standing there, yelling at him, probably gesticulating, and for him it was like watching a silent movie.

That does it. I gotta start turning things up! There's hope!

 

[RaySachs]

How’s a guy supposed to remember crucial stuff, like the date codes for Mullard 12AX7s produced in the Blackburn factory in 1962, if he also has to remember, “We’re going to my sister’s for dinner 3 weeks from tomorrow.”

The brain protects itself by refusing to fire the memory synapses for stuff that would cause it to lose the truly critical data!

Yeah, I’ve tried explaining that...

 

[11top]

Of course, if one really wants to protect hearing, one should invest in quality ear protection...............like in my avatar.

 

[geese_com]

I would recommend musicians earplugs. Not the ones you can get off the shelf, the ones that you need to get fitted for.

The ones I got were Westones: https://www.westone.com/store/music/index.php/hearing-protection

Working in the concert business, I go to lots of shows and they are all loud so I need some good hearing protection but I would still like to enjoy the music. You can wear the musicians earplugs for hours without getting sick of them. It gets to the point where you do not even notice that you have them in.

To me, compared to regular off the shelf non-musicians earplugs, you get to hear everything but it is just at a lower volume.

They cost way more than regular earplugs but I see that as an investment in saving my hearing. Once you lose your hearing, you cannot regain it and I understand that hearing aids are pretty expensive, so why not just spend the extra money upfront to get the proper hearing protection?

Sure it does not look "cool" wearing earplugs, but it really isn't "cool" going deaf when you could have prevented it.

 

[Birdsofprey]

For my current band, we don't get loud enough for that to be an issue (Celtic Fusion, remember - whistles and fiddles, with my elec guitar mixed in using just a small amp most of the time).

However, I have hearing damage from lots of years of playing with my "basement band" when I was in my late-20s and early-30s, but even that wasn't the start - I also had damage from loud rock/metal concerts during my teenage years. I had to take a hearing test when I had a college-years summer job working in an industrial shop-floor environment (so they can monitor for hearing loss over time), and I already had lost some high end in both ears.

I have heard there are "generic" (not custom-made) earplugs out now that don't filter the highs nearly as much as regular "shop floor" earplugs. Just Google and you will see what I mean, and I will mention a couple of brands that I see, but in no way am I trying to endorse or recommend them (nor the opposite) because I have no experience with them:

Eargasm
Etymotic

Does anyone have any experience with such things?

Celtic Fusion ya got me there! hmmm Eluveite "The Call of the Mountains" on Nuclear Blast of course. Not sure if there is a pm feature on the forum otherwise I would have used it. Would like to find/hear more of this style very cool!

 

[László]

So many mediocre drummers think they have to pound like crazy. The good ones play with dynamics. So do good bands, in any genre.

The players folks in my biz hire for sessions - the really great players in lots of styles - have excellent dynamics. I’ve played out live with them, and it’s been nothing but joy, no competition over volume.

The whole band can play with good dynamics when the drummer is actually good enough to get a sound with good dynamics. And the levels are sane enough that the audience doesn’t go deaf.

I was at a show recently where the sound guy went around handing out earplugs, and then cranked the mains so loud that you needed them!

What was the point of that?

Stupid..

 

[garrett]

So many mediocre drummers think they have to pound like crazy. The good ones play with dynamics. So do good bands, in any genre.

The players folks in my biz hire for sessions - the really great players in lots of styles - have excellent dynamics. I’ve played out live with them, and it’s been nothing but joy, no competition over volume.

The whole band can play with good dynamics when the drummer is actually good enough to get a sound with good dynamics. And the levels are sane enough that the audience doesn’t go deaf.

I was at a show recently where the sound guy went around handing out earplugs, and then cranked the mains so loud that you needed them!

What was the point of that?

Stupid..

Having recently auditioned five drummers for a new band, I have gained a new appreciation for this.

 

[Alnus Rubra]

So many mediocre drummers think they have to pound like crazy. The good ones play with dynamics. So do good bands, in any genre.

The players folks in my biz hire for sessions - the really great players in lots of styles - have excellent dynamics. I’ve played out live with them, and it’s been nothing but joy, no competition over volume.

The whole band can play with good dynamics when the drummer is actually good enough to get a sound with good dynamics. And the levels are sane enough that the audience doesn’t go deaf.

I was at a show recently where the sound guy went around handing out earplugs, and then cranked the mains so loud that you needed them!

What was the point of that?

Stupid..

Having recently auditioned five drummers for a new band, I have gained a new appreciation for this.

I’ve had the fortune to work with some amazing drummers/percussionists and some guys who thought they were.

Les, you’ve hit the “nail...” so to speak (pardon the pun). I think my experiences of playing in school band and some jazz, helped me appreciate the need for light and shade and the drummers that can achieve this, keeping good time and locking in with the bass player, creating a great “engine room” so to speak, really make a great foundation on which to layer, other instruments and vocals!