The Age-Old Question Is The Wrong Question!

[László]

I agree with @andy474x that it's situational to a large degree.

I really only ever see that question posed hypothetically or often by those on a budget, and I'd always say invest in the guitar as much as you need to get something that 'you' want to pick up and play, and will be reliable and stable - if you are starting, then a 'cheap' amp is really all you need at most until you feel you are 'ready' to upgrade. The guitar is the most important as its what we 'interface' with, how we get the music out - the rest can be 'functional, situational, optimal or sprinkled with magic pixie dust' - so tweak/buy/modify etc according to personal desire or need - but a guitarist will play an Electric unplugged if they had to or even use some battery amp in some situations but they'll still play 'their' guitar....

How's this for me being wishy-washy: There are times I completely agree with this observation, and other times when I'd rather sink more money into the amp than the guitar.

I encourage people to take what I say with a large grain of salt, and this is why. On the one hand,I have these little conundrums, and on the other hand, I have these little...uh...conundrums.

(I'm pretty sure the aliens are causing this inability to make musical decisions, and that I should be wearing an aluminum foil hat, but then I'd have to wear a matching aluminum foil suit, and we all know aluminum foil suits can be dicey.)

On this day, and for this minute, I think I'd rather play a moderately priced guitar with a great amp than a high priced guitar with a mediocre amp. Ask me tomorrow, and the answer might be different.

"Yeah, um...what aliens, Laz?"

"You know, THE aliens. The ones people talk about after they have Close Encounters. If I knew what they are, or where they're from, I'd be on TV like That Guy who was on the History Channel chucking out 'history' that was only history in his head."

"You don't watch TV."

"When they figure out just who the aliens are, and where they're from, I'll start watching TV again. Then we'll get some interesting things to watch besides Michigan football."

"Hey, at least Michigan won the Natty."

"Yeah, but as all the pundits said at the beginning of the season, they didn't play anyone."

 

[László]

Wait just a darn minute! I had an epiphany, or at the very least, a brain fart.

The Origin Of Football​

The people who are setting up the 12 team So-Called College (but let's face it they're really professionals now) Football Playoff must be the aliens. They even invented the game.

Yes!

Think about this. They've got it set up so certain playoff teams play the first round in their home stadium, right? So picture this:

It's December, so in all likelihood some unfortunate team from a decent climate is going to be forced to go to Ohio, Michigan, or Pennsylvania for a football playoff game - in DECEMBER.

Do they have any idea how freezing cold it is to sit in a stadium in these places in December?

Between us, I wouldn't want to WATCH a football game in a stadium in December, let alone play in one! Hell, I was at Briggs Stadium as a little kid when the Lions were good and were in late-year playoff games. It was so freaking cold you had to have an ice pick to pick your nose.

You freeze your ying-yang off.

I don't care how many articles of down clothing you wear, it ain't ever enough. You're wearing three pairs of socks and hiking boots and your toes still hurt so much from the cold you can hardly walk to the car.

But you know who wants to attend these games? Yes sir, and they've been working on it for over 100 years:

Aliens in SPACESUITS don't care how cold it gets. The Stadiums will be full of 'em. And tickets will be cheap for obvious reasons.

Never mind that some team from Alabama, Florida, California or Georgia will be forced to head north and play in a snowstorm on a frozen field. The aliens don't care. To the aliens, football is kind of like Demolition Derby, only with people instead of cars. I think they invented it.

I'm pretty sure they invented gladiatorial combat, too, back in the day.

When did people suddenly start playing sports, anyway? They didn't need sports. They already had wars. You see what I'm sayin' here...

They didn't have aluminum foil back in Ancient Rome. And they didn't have aluminum foil in 1869 when football started. Aluminum foil wasn't invented until 1910.

So it wasn't difficult for you-know-who to put this idea into their heads: "You know what will be fun? Let's go beat the living sh!t out of each other and see what happens!"

And jousting. Oh, I know what you're going to say: they had helmets. Sorry. They were iron helmets, not aluminum foil helmets. So they got two dudes together, did some brain voodoo, and one said, "Hey, I've got a great idea! Let's each grab a gigantic spear, sit on our horses, and make the horses go as fast as they can and race toward each other while we aim our gigantic spears at each other and see what happens! Whaddaya think?"

And the other guy said, "Sure, let's do it! Spearing serfs in a war is kind of boring."

Don't even get me started on boxing.

Would any human being think inventing these sports was a good idea? I don't think so. It was the aliens, I tell you.

You know what sports human beings invented? Golf. Tennis. Swimming, Bicycle racing. Skiing. Baseball. Surfing. Etc. Sports where the object of the game isn't to physically annihilate the other players.

 

[Tony M.]

So "they" are the aliens?

 

[László]

So "they" are the aliens?

Beats me. I just type whatever pops into my head. There's no rhyme or reason to it.

Even my grandmother doesn't understand it.

"She can't understand it. She's been dead since 1973."

"She's only materially dead. I have a Ouija Board."

"How's she doing?"

"I don't know. She stopped speaking to me."

"When?"

"When she died. Go figure."

 

[Mozzi]

I agree with @andy474x that it's situational to a large degree.


How's this for me being wishy-washy: There are times I completely agree with this observation, and other times when I'd rather sink more money into the amp than the guitar.

I encourage people to take what I say with a large grain of salt, and this is why. On the one hand,I have these little conundrums, and on the other hand, I have these little...uh...conundrums.

(I'm pretty sure the aliens are causing this inability to make musical decisions, and that I should be wearing an aluminum foil hat, but then I'd have to wear a matching aluminum foil suit, and we all know aluminum foil suits can be dicey.)

On this day, and for this minute, I think I'd rather play a moderately priced guitar with a great amp than a high priced guitar with a mediocre amp. Ask me tomorrow, and the answer might be different.

"Yeah, um...what aliens, Laz?"

"You know, THE aliens. The ones people talk about after they have Close Encounters. If I knew what they are, or where they're from, I'd be on TV like That Guy who was on the History Channel chucking out 'history' that was only history in his head."

"You don't watch TV."

"When they figure out just who the aliens are, and where they're from, I'll start watching TV again. Then we'll get some interesting things to watch besides Michigan football."

"Hey, at least Michigan won the Natty."

"Yeah, but as all the pundits said at the beginning of the season, they didn't play anyone."

As I said, I only really hear that asked by 'beginners' and/or those on a tight budget. In any case, 'expensive' guitar is unlikely to include PRS Core guitars. Its often posed with a set budget, like 1k, 1.5k, maybe even as much as 2k wondering whether they should split the money down the middle between Amp and Guitar or invest more into one or the other. An 'expensive' guitar could be an SE for example instead of a basic Squire, Epiphone or Harley Benton - something that takes up 'most' of their budget is 'expensive' to them even if it seems 'cheap' compared to Core PRS, Gibson/Fender CS, Knaggs, Suhr, Music Man etc guitars.

I don't think I've actually heard a 'musician' pose that question - maybe because a Musician will use the 'best' tool for the job - whether that is a 'cheap' guitar like a Danelectro for example or a Cheap Amp (if they use a 'real' amp) because it gives them the 'sound' they want for their 'music' so its often posed by 'beginners' to Electric with a tight/small budget and 'expensive' may mean 75%+ of that 'budget' being spent on either Amp or Guitar leaving only a small budget for the other.

If you only had 1k to spend, is it better to spend the Majority of that on a Guitar or Amp? You could buy a Guitar for under 200, leaving 800 for Amp - which would seem 'expensive' compared to the Guitar, or buy an 800 guitar and only have 200 for the Amp and that's a 'typical' situation where I here that Question posed - its not about whether you should buy a PRS core or a boutique amp, those are out of Budget regardless - expensive just means where 'most' of their limited Budget is being utilised. Its usually only asked also by those looking to start their Electric Guitar music Journey with their 'first/only' Electric gear.

 

[You_Narf]

I agree, but if someone gave you $2500 to buy a guitar and amp, would you buy more expensive used gear, or less expensive new gear. Sorry, this may be a topic for a different thread.

New gear for me. I don't like buying used unless I can spend some quality time with it first or actually know the person selling it. There's just too many guitars, pedals and amps being tampered with these days, by people who "think" they know what they're doing but actually don't. So I'd rather buy lesser quality New than great quality Used.

If I need it to sound or look different, I will mod it myself or buy the parts and take it to the shop hehe

 

[László]

If you only had 1k to spend, is it better to spend the Majority of that on a Guitar or Amp? You could buy a Guitar for under 200, leaving 800 for Amp - which would seem 'expensive' compared to the Guitar, or buy an 800 guitar and only have 200 for the Amp and that's a 'typical' situation where I here that Question posed

Actually, my question wasn't posed for beginners, since I've heard plenty of mid-level players ask the same question.

If a beginner asked me that question, I'd say to put the money into the guitar, because a crap guitar is an impediment to learning, and get some inexpensive modeling software to practice at the computer.

Buy the amp later once you have a feel for what you're doing. It doesn't take long. And the modeling software might give you some ideas about what you want to look at in amps.

 

[Chef T]

New gear for me. I don't like buying used unless I can spend some quality time with it first or actually know the person selling it. There's just too many guitars, pedals and amps being tampered with these days, by people who "think" they know what they're doing but actually don't. So I'd rather buy lesser quality New than great quality Used.

If I need it to sound or look different, I will mod it myself or buy the parts and take it to the shop hehe

That’s interesting. I have sold a few guitars over the years that I replaced tuners/electronics and did fret leveling/polishing and I never thought of it that way. Guess I got lucky

 

[László]

New gear for me.

Me, too.

It's kind of a crapshoot buying used gear. Literally; who knows whether previous owners even washed their hands after pooping, let alone took care of the guitars?

"Well, how do you know the manufacturer's employees bothered to wash their hands after pooping?"

"It's kind of a bummer that you mentioned that, because I can't un-read it. I'm going to have to spend several weeks on the psychiatrist's couch to regain my bearings."

"Which reminds me - do you know how clean your psychiatrist's couch is?"

"That does it! I'm never setting foot outside my house again."

"Ever have company over? Just sayin'..."

 

[Tedder]

I'm OK with a used guitar, because I can verify that all of the switches and knobs work, and if it breaks or needs an update, I'm fairly competent to do most things on my own. I don't like the idea of buying a used amp. If it dies, I have to pay someone to look at it. I'd prefer to start out with a new one so I know how it's been treated and when the warranty runs out.

 

[You_Narf]

Me, too.

It's kind of a crapshoot buying used gear. Literally; who knows whether previous owners even washed their hands after pooping, let alone took care of the guitars?

"Well, how do you know the manufacturer's employees bothered to wash their hands after pooping?"

"It's kind of a bummer that you mentioned that, because I can't un-read it. I'm going to have to spend several weeks on the psychiatrist's couch to regain my bearings."

"Which reminds me - do you know how clean your psychiatrist's couch is?"

"That does it! I'm never setting foot outside my house again."

"Ever have company over? Just sayin'..."

Lol I mean, everyone tries to be a master solder these days. They solder one pickup horribly and from there they are suddenly a pro in their mind. And so, it's typical for a guitar shop to have someone who is trying too hard to be an amp and pedal tech, usually a beginner so the shop offers super low prices but tries to re-assure the customers that they have some type of experience.. It kinda reminds me of a hole in the wall tattoo place where tbe artist offers free tattoos to people because they know they're just starting out. It's easy to gage if something works, but not easy to tell if something sounds the way it actually should or if it should sound better.

This equally goes for guitars, the wiring, pickups and whatever mods under the hood. There's no shop that's going to let you take the pickgaurd off and check if the wiring is legit, that should be a top priority for buying a used American made guitar or come what may. Reminds me of when I was younger and something I witnessed at GameStop. A father and son walked into the shop, they were trading in a broken system, the worker who was to accept or deny the trade in plugged in in system and when they saw that the power lights came on, they accepted it. Later, they found the game system's cd rom drive was broken and the system itself would project no picture. This is similar to what can happen with used music gear too. There's no way to be sure of anything unless you do a bit deeper tests.

I suppose I'd rather be a pinky bit "paranoid" and spend the extra cash to be safe than to be con'd. Hehe I realize I am in the minority but I haven't been screwed over yet. However, if people (as in anyone) like to buy used and find some gems, more power to them! I'm certainly not tryinh to change any minds- It's just a personal precaution for me. This type of stuff happens more often than people are willing to admit, sure, but does that mean anyone will see my side for making this a preference? Probably not lol

 

[Chef T]

Me, too.

It's kind of a crapshoot buying used gear. Literally; who knows whether previous owners even washed their hands after pooping, let alone took care of the guitars?

"Well, how do you know the manufacturer's employees bothered to wash their hands after pooping?"

"It's kind of a bummer that you mentioned that, because I can't un-read it. I'm going to have to spend several weeks on the psychiatrist's couch to regain my bearings."

"Which reminds me - do you know how clean your psychiatrist's couch is?"

"That does it! I'm never setting foot outside my house again."

"Ever have company over? Just sayin'..."

Thanks for the laugh, I needed it!

 

[László]

Lol I mean, everyone tries to be a master solder these days. They solder one pickup horribly and from there they are suddenly a pro in their mind. And so, it's typical for a guitar shop to have someone who is trying too hard to be an amp and pedal tech, usually a beginner so the shop offers super low prices but tries to re-assure the customers that they have some type of experience.. It kinda reminds me of a hole in the wall tattoo place where tbe artist offers free tattoos to people because they know they're just starting out. It's easy to gage if something works, but not easy to tell if something sounds the way it actually should or if it should sound better.

This equally goes for guitars, the wiring, pickups and whatever mods under the hood. There's no shop that's going to let you take the pickgaurd off and check if the wiring is legit, that should be a top priority for buying a used American made guitar or come what may. Reminds me of when I was younger and something I witnessed at GameStop. A father and son walked into the shop, they were trading in a broken system, the worker who was to accept or deny the trade in plugged in in system and when they saw that the power lights came on, they accepted it. Later, they found the game system's cd rom drive was broken and the system itself would project no picture. This is similar to what can happen with used music gear too. There's no way to be sure of anything unless you do a bit deeper tests.

I suppose I'd rather be a pinky bit "paranoid" and spend the extra cash to be safe than to be con'd. Hehe I realize I am in the minority but I haven't been screwed over yet. However, if people (as in anyone) like to buy used and find some gems, more power to them! I'm certainly not tryinh to change any minds- It's just a personal precaution for me. This type of stuff happens more often than people are willing to admit, sure, but does that mean anyone will see my side for making this a preference? Probably not lol

No doubt!

I truly only buy new gear. Being in the music biz, I need the gear to work, have a warranty, have a vendor who can take care of any issues, etc. I should mention that shiny new objects are very appealing, and I can be something of a maniac about gear care.

 

[Prina]

I truly only buy new gear. Being in the music biz, I need the gear to work

It depends on what gear it is. 7 out of the 8 guitars here were used and all but one got played prior to being purchased or within the return period. UA rackmount Apollo: used but mint. The recent Archon combo amp: used and nearly mint, although that was the riskiest purchase. Not being in the biz, I don't get to expense/depreciate it and used has been 1/3 to 1/2 of the new price. For the risk, which can be mitigated by research & being careful, there's much better kit here than would be otherwise.

The Fractal FM9 was new but those were significantly more expensive on the used market because of a long waitlist when I got it.

 

[László]

It depends on what gear it is. 7 out of the 8 guitars here were used and all but one got played prior to being purchased or within the return period. UA rackmount Apollo: used but mint. The recent Archon combo amp: used and nearly mint, although that was the riskiest purchase. Not being in the biz, I don't get to expense/depreciate it and used has been 1/3 to 1/2 of the new price. For the risk, which can be mitigated by research & being careful, there's much better kit here than would be otherwise.

The Fractal FM9 was new but those were significantly more expensive on the used market because of a long waitlist when I got it.

I completely understand what you're saying, and it's as true and good as any other solution.

I roll a different way, not because I think my way is somehow more 'right' - it isn't - but it's what works for me in my unique circumstances.

I always say that my statements about my own practices are not prescriptions for anyone else. I try not to tell other people what to do, though there are times I cross that line, unfortunately.

 

[Prina]

I roll a different way, not because I think my way is somehow more 'right' - it isn't - but it's what works for me in my unique circumstances.

Absolutely agree. I'm not a pro so if something breaks while performing it's not a big deal. Having clients, working with other musicians, in rented studios would a very different situation where equipment just has to work and keeping everyone else happy and maintaining a reputation really matters.

And I'll bet that in a lot of your situations you notice the extra 5%-10% that a Private Stock or NOS equipped HXDA has. And in cases like that it's often nice to know that you have the best there is and cost is a secondary or tertiary consideration.

As you noted, people have their unique circumstances. For me the 'Age Old Question' probably isn't guitars vs. amps. It probably should be gear vs. lessons as the last private lesson (not counting classes) I had was in '66.

 

[László]

Absolutely agree. I'm not a pro so if something breaks while performing it's not a big deal. Having clients, working with other musicians, in rented studios would a very different situation where equipment just has to work and keeping everyone else happy and maintaining a reputation really matters.

And I'll bet that in a lot of your situations you notice the extra 5%-10% that a Private Stock or NOS equipped HXDA has. And in cases like that it's often nice to know that you have the best there is and cost is a secondary or tertiary consideration.

As you noted, people have their unique circumstances. For me the 'Age Old Question' probably isn't guitars vs. amps. It probably should be gear vs. lessons as the last private lesson (not counting classes) I had was in '66.

You absolutely nailed it. All true, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Peacemaker]

Awesome amps are pretty cheap these days, in terms of what they are capable of doing. The evolution of the technology is astounding (to me, anyway). By no means a pro, I can attain tones from my little 50W Katana II that just a decade ago took thousands of dollars and high technical skill to dial in. I am still learning how to get what I want out of that amp and 'teach' it to respond differently to different guitars--my old Ibanez needs different settings than the PRS for example. Lots can be done with amps these days that is within reach of all kinds of budgets and also user friendly.

Awesome guitars however, are usually not cheap, and still come from an amalgam of handcrafting skills, old knowledge about selecting woods and electronics and construction, fine components, quality workmanship in production (anyone remember that post on someone's SE with those awful build quality photos?). There is the industrial side of things too: precision machining and quality control. I imagine many of us love PRSs because they have these things nailed down super tight AND the guitars play and sound awesome.

So, at this point in my playing career, I still feel like I have to spend more on guitars than on amps and electronics.

And nothing has been better for my playing than having some good quality guitars to play.

 

[László]

Awesome amps are pretty cheap these days, in terms of what they are capable of doing. The evolution of the technology is astounding (to me, anyway). By no means a pro, I can attain tones from my little 50W Katana II that just a decade ago took thousands of dollars and high technical skill to dial in. I am still learning how to get what I want out of that amp and 'teach' it to respond differently to different guitars--my old Ibanez needs different settings than the PRS for example. Lots can be done with amps these days that is within reach of all kinds of budgets and also user friendly.

Awesome guitars however, are usually not cheap, and still come from an amalgam of handcrafting skills, old knowledge about selecting woods and electronics and construction, fine components, quality workmanship in production (anyone remember that post on someone's SE with those awful build quality photos?). There is the industrial side of things too: precision machining and quality control. I imagine many of us love PRSs because they have these things nailed down super tight AND the guitars play and sound awesome.

So, at this point in my playing career, I still feel like I have to spend more on guitars than on amps and electronics.

And nothing has been better for my playing than having some good quality guitars to play.

Well argued points here.

I can't disagree, because the answers to all this stuff are intensely personal anyway.

On the other hand, I don't think modelers are awesome amps. They're a compromise. But not many people agree with me these days. In fact, there are plenty of people who've never even had a real, quality tube amp, and don't even know the dang difference.

I'm not saying that's you, Anthony. Just making an observation.

 

[Peacemaker]

That's true, I've never owned a tube amp. I have played through them at rehearsals and jams and loved what I heard, once I understood how to get good sound from them.