PRS DGT SE Muddy Tone / HX Stomp tone comparison

[nic]

Hello good people, I'm new to the forums.

I own a PRS DGT SE gold top and it was a major upgrade after playing some cheap Strat like guitar. The only source for researching the DGT SE was the internet. I own a HX Stomp and I do not have the chance to try the guitar on different quality amps.

I like the shape and the guitar overall but using HX Stomp the tone is very muddy and really tough to get anything good sounding without cranking up the highs on the mixer (Mooer PE100 as well). I also tried it with a Line6 spider amp, and there I had to boost the highs and cut the lows as well.

My problem with HX Stomp is that I can't get good tone that isn't bass heavy and that cuts through, especially the distorted sounds which get bass heavy. I was listening to it on some Yamaha PA speakers and on the Sennheiser HD660S2.

I tried playing with pickup height and bought a quality 10ft cable (Blackstar Pro) as well.

At the bottom I'll post a link to a Soundcloud clean sample recording, straight out of HX Stomp (3.70) with no amp and no effect blocks applied, just a clean tone from input to output.

- G open chord bridge, middle, neck
- G bar chord bridge, middle, neck
- HX Stomp 3.7, no effects, no amp
- 90kOhm input impedance at HX Stomp

Soundcloud:

https://soundcloud.com/nic-66812582%2Fprs-dgt-se-hx-stomp-direct-sample-sound

Maybe someone owning a DGT SE and a product from the Helix family can verify whether the sound is expected? Maybe it's just me.

I took some time to understand the electronics of the DGT SE and all the wiring is according to the official DGT schematic at the PRS website. Seems the humbucker coils are wired in series and the white wires connected to the Pull/Push switch are at the split point. I guess adding a capacitor between the white wire and ground might pass some high tones from the first coil, although I'm not sure how that will affect the tone when in split mode. I still need to test that.

Cheers

https://imgur.com/a/xaf1Lb3

https://imgur.com/EvuZdu9

 

[JasonE]

I am not sure how you are monitoring your sound but those didn't sound bad at all on these little speakers I have on my computer. I also don't know how experienced you are with modelers. Volume level and how you monitor it can make a world of difference in how they sound.

You mentioned you used to play a Strat style guitar. If you are used to hearing a single coil pickup then pick up a guitar like this with humbuckers, they do sound thicker and fuller. That is part of their tone. You can pull the tone knob up and split the pickups to get closer to that single coil sound you may be used to.

 

[LaxActium]

What did you end up with for pickup height?

 

[TheCraftsman]

The one through the HX does sound somewhat more bass heavy, def nothing at all configured on there? Sounds almost like the tone is turned down

 

[deathworlder]

Have you tried maxing the impedance?

 

[BigChrisW]

I use a DGT SE through a Helix Floor (Gigs) and Stomp (Home use). I've not found it to be muddy. Try setting the Stomp In-Z to Auto; no real need to change it from that (in my experience - ymmv). Add an amp and cab to the signal path. Try the US Deluxe Nrm model with a 1x12 Open Cream cab, 57 mic Dynamic mic. If it's a little bass-y add a 100 Hz Low Cut in the cab block. Stick a Dynamic Plate Reverb on the end. Done. Should sound great

 

[nic]

Hey, thanks for the responses.

The sound was recorded through HX Stomp, with no settings, just to make it easy to replicate. The whole recording is HX Stomp only, 3 switch positions with open G and bar chord G.

I am not sure how you are monitoring your sound but those didn't sound bad at all on these little speakers I have on my computer.

Same here with computer speakers or cheap littler ear buds. I guess those can't really reproduce lower frequencies very well.

What did you end up with for pickup height?

In the recording those are raised to some default, factory level (I'll take some measurements later). I tried lowering both pickup sides, and also lowering just the bass side in order to decrease the lower frequencies signal.

The one through the HX does sound somewhat more bass heavy, def nothing at all configured on there? Sounds almost like the tone is turned down

No configs, clean signal from input directly to output. Global EQ all flat.
I'll prepare a recording to compare Tone 0 vs Tone 10.
I also have a little Mooer PE100 processor, and though it it's bass heavy as well. Also when tried on that Line6 Spider amp the tone had to be cleaned up a lot by raising presence or the highs.

Have you tried maxing the impedance?

I did try several settings. Ended up with manually setting it to 90k Ohm so it can be reproduced and it's more than 10x the guitar output. Setting a higher input impedance just lowers the signal overall.

Try the US Deluxe Nrm model with a 1x12 Open Cream cab, 57 mic Dynamic mic. If it's a little bass-y add a 100 Hz Low Cut in the cab block. Stick a Dynamic Plate Reverb on the end. Done. Should sound great

I'll do a recording tomorrow with these settings. Would be great if you could compare it to your sound.

 

[BigChrisW]

I did try several settings. Ended up with manually setting it to 90k Ohm so it can be reproduced and it's more than 10x the guitar output. Setting a higher input impedance just lowers the signal overall.

I'll do a recording tomorrow with these settings. Would be great if you could compare it to your sound.

Happy to compare it. I'll try to do a recording of mine if I can. The impedance shouldn't change the overall volume; I'll play it with it today to see what effect I notice

 

[Mystic38]

1. Guitar

Reset the pickups to whatever spec is recommended by PRS.. if the sound is as offensive as you infer, its not the guitar.

2. Calibrate

Use your HX to play music through whatever you play through.. Use this to set your sonic expectations of balance your signal chain.. If its bass heavy use global EQ or move your speaker.. tilt it, raise it up, away from corners and walls..

3. EQ..

If the guitar and HX are bass heavy.. reduce the bass in the amp. if still an issue with bass at (say) 2; Use EQ.. try the low cut on the cab block and dont be shy..make it 150Hz or so and adjust to taste... yes, higher or lower.. make it 12dB rather than 6db rolloff. If you dont wish to fk with the cab block and an EQ block as first in chain.

As a general rule in EQ, reduce gain in a freq band that needs affecting, rather than increasing other bands to compensate.

 

[MarcWink]

I can't speak for the SE DGT, but I use all of my guitars through a HX Stomp XL for gigs and at home, I bounce between that and a couple of different amps. That being said, Definitely try building out a patch with your preferred amp and cab blocks, tweak the amp block's eq settings to get you in the ball park of where you want to be and then play around with the low cut in the cab block to fine tune the low frequencies. You may also want to try running an eq block at the very end of the chain as well if you're still not getting where you want to be with the cab block's low cut. The Helix family has so many tone shaping options available, you really have to spend some time when you're building out a patch. It's not as simple as just twisting knobs for gain, bass, mid, treble, and master on a live amp. Also don't ignore the amp block parameters for sag and bias if you need to tighten up your sound.

 

[Rider1260]

I don't hear anything bass heavy , sounds like a humbucker clean to me.
It can 100% take some time to get you ear used to a new tone , just bring up your fav older preset with your Strat then start with the DGT Tapped and experiment from there , don't be afraid to sound different that's the point of different guitars.
Another thing is experiment with your strumming if your old guitar was overly bright you may have developed a tendency to be light on the higher strings and run your EQ on the darker side.

 

[markd21]

Here's a video of mine through my Helix Rack. I have yet to experience any "muddiness". Mine has stock pickups.

Do you use your low/high cuts on your IRs or Cab models? Experiment.

Also, on your input block you have the opportunity to change input impedance. This is a great parameter for custom tailoring the tone and gain of the instrument as it hit the first block. Are you using effects in front of your amp/cab block? If so, then the impedance settings will matter. Line 6 models the input buffers and impedance loads of all the effects in the HX line.

Anyway, video:

WHile I am not playing any chords here, I assure you that all my chord tones are clear and even with response.

 

[SteveGlitch]

I am not sure how you are monitoring your sound but those didn't sound bad at all on these little speakers I have on my computer.

+1

Sounded good on my phone as well, then againmy phone has the new built in Bose micro speakers so maybe it makes everything sound good.

 

[TheCraftsman]

The one through the HX does sound somewhat more bass heavy, def nothing at all configured on there? Sounds almost like the tone is turned down

I correct my stance as I misunderstood the demo clip breakdown ; I don’t think it sounds bass heavy

 

[SinSir]

Sounds like a humbucker to me.

 

[nic]

Sorry I wasn't able to get back to you earlier.

The impedance shouldn't change the overall volume

Yes, my fault, it does not change the volume.

Add an amp and cab to the signal path. Try the US Deluxe Nrm model with a 1x12 Open Cream cab, 57 mic Dynamic mic. If it's a little bass-y add a 100 Hz Low Cut in the cab block. Stick a Dynamic Plate Reverb on the end. Done. Should sound great

After dialing in these settings the sound is much better than what it was like when I was trying different amps and presets. It seems to be a really good combination. My goal is to get the basic tones, clean, crunchy and distortion.

The HX Stomp stock presets sound a bit muddy and woofy. I guess those are tailored for brighter pickups.

I bought online some presets that sounded great in the videos but I couldn't make them work with my DGT SE, there was always this muddiness and woofieness.

Thanks to everyone, the main goal of this topic was to determine whether the pickups sound as intended as I wasn't able to tweak a good tone on both the HX Stomp, and the small Mooer PE1000. I was after something like a Billy Gibbons, Slash tone.

Following is a recording with the settings @BigChrisW suggested. I'll go on from there and experiment further.
Clean @ neck pickup. Distortions @ bridge pickup.

(Sorry for the playing ability, the technique is not spot on yet)

https://soundcloud.com/nic-66812582%2Fprs-dgt-se-hx-stomp-sample

 

[SteveGlitch]

Sorry I wasn't able to get back to you earlier.



Yes, my fault, it does not change the volume.



After dialing in these settings the sound is much better than what it was like when I was trying different amps and presets. It seems to be a really good combination. My goal is to get the basic tones, clean, crunchy and distortion.

The HX Stomp stock presets sound a bit muddy and woofy. I guess those are tailored for brighter pickups.

I bought online some presets that sounded great in the videos but I couldn't make them work with my DGT SE, there was always this muddiness and woofieness.

Thanks to everyone, the main goal of this topic was to determine whether the pickups sound as intended as I wasn't able to tweak a good tone on both the HX Stomp, and the small Mooer PE1000. I was after something like a Billy Gibbons, Slash tone.

Following is a recording with the settings @BigChrisW suggested. I'll go on from there and experiment further.
Clean @ neck pickup. Distortions @ bridge pickup.

(Sorry for the playing ability, the technique is not spot on yet)

https://soundcloud.com/nic-66812582%2Fprs-dgt-se-hx-stomp-sample

I don't think the pickups are the problem, the EQ seems to be set well enough... I think a good compressor or FET style pre-amp boost like a Prism or an Epoch Boost would definitely help beef up your tone because it sounds like it's getting choked in the mix. You have raised the pickups to get as beefy as needed?

If you want to get closer to the Billy Gibbons, swap them pickups with a set of Pearly Gates, if you want closer to Slash, Seymour Duncan makes the Slash pickups as well. This pretty much kills any need for wasting time with EQ'ing, as the pickups are EQ'd to be plug and go (I know because I've had both).

 

[László]

I may have missed this, so if it’s been mentioned, apologies.

With any modeler or digital effect I’ve ever used, setting the correct input level makes a huge difference. Not talking impedance here; input level.

If the input level isn’t set correctly, digital gear sounds pretty awful.

If I’m guessing right there’s usually something in the manual explaining the process.

 

[BigChrisW]

Already sounds better!
For a Billy Gibbons tone try one of the Marshall Plexi modeled amps. I use the Brit Plexi Jump for gigs with a Dual Cab (4x12 Blackback 30 / 4x12 Cali V30)

 

[markd21]

NIc - I like it!

I am gonna make up three different 6 block patches (clean, crunch, dirt) for my DGT and send them your way to kind of see the way I set my parameters. Would you like them setup as one amp gain-boosted from clean to sustain, or (basically) a Fender, a Marshall, a Modern Hi-Gain amp?

Hook me up with a couple of parameters!!