frankencat
Guitarded
Why do they not recess the back plates? That really bugs me for some reason. Sorry to be neg.
One thing about the S2's...
- Thread starter frankencat
- Start date
frankencat
Guitarded
I don't really know how to put a monetary value on it. It just bugs me is all. I mean the SE's have it don't they? At any rate I don't see how it saves them that much in the manufacturing process. It's one more router cut on the back and they already have the CNC programming for it. It seems like such a small detail so easy to make right if done at the right time.
Bob Hundemer
New Member
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2019
- Messages
- 233
I agree with the simplicity of the process. Maybe it's a marketing ploy to encourage someone to buy up,
garrett
...
It's just part of the formula to hit that affordable price. It takes time and we all know time is money.
They can do it on SE models because they follow a different formula.
There's zero functional advantage to recessing the plates.
sergiodeblanc
New Member
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2012
- Messages
- 27,388
It’s the sanding and finishing where the non-recessed plates save money. It’s super easy to burn through or over sand them.
SE’s have recessed plates, except for the trem cavity.
It may seem like a big deal at first but once you use them a little you realize it isn't. About half my cores have the backplates removed. Completely gone - gaping hole. The covers have PRSH sig's on them and I don't want to scrape them off with use or spray a coating on them so I play with an open cavity. Still don't notice a difference. Some day I'll get around to putting replacement backplates on them...
pauloqs
PRS McCarty
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2019
- Messages
- 413
I don’t know how much it would cost extra to recess the control plate. However, even if hypothetically it didn’t increase cost to do so, there would still be economic reasoning not do so.
Let me preface the next couple of arguments by saying that price discrimination (on willingness to pay) is beneficial to both buyers and sellers. Buyers who otherwise would not be able to afford or willing to pay PRS guitars benefits from owning PRS guitars with price discrimination. Sellers benefit from an increase in revenue.
Institutions and market structures for guitars only permits self selecting price discrimination. That is the buyer self selects which price bucket she’s going to be in. For instance you choose between coach and business class, SE vs S2 vs CE vs Core vs WL vs PS. However, that creates a challenge for the seller. If the product is too similar across price discrimination buckets, some buyers will move lower price tiers. For instance, if coach was made better, some people who would be willing to pay to fly business would choose to fly coach.
Most people at this point say, yeah coach (S2) is better all consumers are better off just the seller is worse off. Thats not necessarily the case. What can happen in this scenario of making coach (S2) better, is that the smaller demand for business class (Core) makes it prohibitive for seller to continue offering the premium product. Business class flyers (Core buyers) are worse off because they don’t have that options anymore, coach flyers (S2 buyers) are worse off because this would likely lead to the increase in price of coach (S2) to compensate for the loss or revenue from business (Core) and producer is worse off because of reduced revenues.
To counter the price discrimination selection process challenges, producers often make the product characteristics differences greater what would be induced by cost. In other words, S2 don’t have certain features just so that Core buyers don’t buy S2s instead of Core guitars. PRS is not exploiting their customers by doing that. What it is doing is having sound economic practices that help them stay in business and provide us with amazing instruments.
TL;DR: Self selected price discrimination. It makes economic sense and it’s a good thing.
Let me preface the next couple of arguments by saying that price discrimination (on willingness to pay) is beneficial to both buyers and sellers. Buyers who otherwise would not be able to afford or willing to pay PRS guitars benefits from owning PRS guitars with price discrimination. Sellers benefit from an increase in revenue.
Institutions and market structures for guitars only permits self selecting price discrimination. That is the buyer self selects which price bucket she’s going to be in. For instance you choose between coach and business class, SE vs S2 vs CE vs Core vs WL vs PS. However, that creates a challenge for the seller. If the product is too similar across price discrimination buckets, some buyers will move lower price tiers. For instance, if coach was made better, some people who would be willing to pay to fly business would choose to fly coach.
Most people at this point say, yeah coach (S2) is better all consumers are better off just the seller is worse off. Thats not necessarily the case. What can happen in this scenario of making coach (S2) better, is that the smaller demand for business class (Core) makes it prohibitive for seller to continue offering the premium product. Business class flyers (Core buyers) are worse off because they don’t have that options anymore, coach flyers (S2 buyers) are worse off because this would likely lead to the increase in price of coach (S2) to compensate for the loss or revenue from business (Core) and producer is worse off because of reduced revenues.
To counter the price discrimination selection process challenges, producers often make the product characteristics differences greater what would be induced by cost. In other words, S2 don’t have certain features just so that Core buyers don’t buy S2s instead of Core guitars. PRS is not exploiting their customers by doing that. What it is doing is having sound economic practices that help them stay in business and provide us with amazing instruments.
TL;DR: Self selected price discrimination. It makes economic sense and it’s a good thing.
bodia
Authorities said.....best leave it.....unsolved
Well said
Couple things.
1. @pauloqs : Recessing the back plate is not such an upgrade that it would affect the entire pricing characteristic of the guitar. Probably more influential is American vs. import pickups and parts, which is why the S2 Custom is more than the S2 Standard, and the CE with all American parts is more than the S2 Custom. Above that most of what you get are mainly aesthetics such as deeper body carve and prettier finishes, perhaps some premium woods for the connoisseurs out there. After all, the core guitars at a $1500 extra premium have the same pickups among other things as the CE level.
2. Recessing the backplate is such a tiny inconsequential detail. Is it something you ever see or notice when playing? For me, I could care less if my S2 Standard has a recessed back plate or not. It doesn't make any difference to how the guitar plays or sounds.
-k
1. @pauloqs : Recessing the back plate is not such an upgrade that it would affect the entire pricing characteristic of the guitar. Probably more influential is American vs. import pickups and parts, which is why the S2 Custom is more than the S2 Standard, and the CE with all American parts is more than the S2 Custom. Above that most of what you get are mainly aesthetics such as deeper body carve and prettier finishes, perhaps some premium woods for the connoisseurs out there. After all, the core guitars at a $1500 extra premium have the same pickups among other things as the CE level.
2. Recessing the backplate is such a tiny inconsequential detail. Is it something you ever see or notice when playing? For me, I could care less if my S2 Standard has a recessed back plate or not. It doesn't make any difference to how the guitar plays or sounds.
-k
P90s
New Member
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2013
- Messages
- 204
Everything in the manufacturing process carries a cost/benefit assessment. Everything. What looks simple can complicate the manufacturing process in imagined ways, and perhaps more cost than the market will bear.
Tony M.
New Member
You could bevel the edges of the back plates
with a very fine file and polish out the newly filed edges.
That would make them less likely to snag on clothing.
with a very fine file and polish out the newly filed edges.
That would make them less likely to snag on clothing.
GuitarJammin
Guitar Player
Don't CEs have the SE bridges and even the DW has the Floyd 1000 series trem instead of the Floyd original? I thought they also use SE tuners as well with no open gear. I always thought the hardware on CEs was foreign...maybe i'm wrong..but the CEs and i tried a year or so ago definitely were not core quality.
grausch
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2016
- Messages
- 505
Can’t comment on the bridge as I only own a Vela and a S2 Singlecut, but can comment that the tuners are great. The CE was not really my cup of tea, but both my aforementioned S2s are extremely close to the quality of my Cores - the main difference being that my favorite Cores use larger fretwire. Other than that, I doubt I would notice much of a difference.
dogrocketp
I drank the PRS kool aid, and it was tasty!
I've bevelled all the back plates on my SE's and S2's.
Dirty_Boogie
Still got the ol' tagger on it
I scratch my head at this one... On my SE CU22, the control cavity cover is recessed, but not the trem cavity (the "simpler" of the two.) Either do em both, or don't do it at all.
sergiodeblanc
New Member
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2012
- Messages
- 27,388
Y’all know that with the exception of a small run of Artist guitars (maybe it was II or III?) in the 90’s PRS tuners have all been “foreign” tuners, right?
They’ve also never said where or who is/are making the bridges and trems now. MilCom/John Mann did at first, then it was Excel, and now the only thing they’ve disclosed is that they have them manufactured for them from “vendors” (plural).
So this whole thing about “USA parts” vs. “foreign parts” is kind of a fantasy that people other than the company have created, and/or assumptions based on the past.
They’ve also never said where or who is/are making the bridges and trems now. MilCom/John Mann did at first, then it was Excel, and now the only thing they’ve disclosed is that they have them manufactured for them from “vendors” (plural).
So this whole thing about “USA parts” vs. “foreign parts” is kind of a fantasy that people other than the company have created, and/or assumptions based on the past.
