One thing about the S2's...

Discussion in 'Electric Instruments' started by frankencat, Dec 11, 2019.

  1. bodia

    bodia Authorities said.....best leave it.....unsolved

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    Got burst everyone’s bubble and agree.
     
  2. sergiodeblanc

    sergiodeblanc Zombie Eight, DFZ

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    And another thing... I own some USA made PRS branded tuners, and you know what? They suck. :p

    So be glad that Schaller and Gotoh and whoever else’s “foreign” tuners are on your guitar. They’re way better.
     
  3. Vader

    Vader New Member

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    I don't mind the non recessed plates on my CE24. I don't have to shake the guitar to get them off. No big deal for me.
     
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  4. pauloqs

    pauloqs PRS McCarty

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    There are things that affect price directly through cost, and yes cost contributes to price (price is a function of marginal cost in every economics text book). For instance, a solid neck with glued in headstock and heel, like CEs and S2s, is cheaper to produce than a one pierce neck like the Core, because it generates less material waste. The S2 and CE production process allows for more necks from less wood compared to the Core. Therefore it is cost cutting and some would argue that is inconsequential regarding the performance of the instrument.

    As for the pickups, it is just cheaper to produce them in Asia. Labor cost is lower. Pickups are cost cutting measures.

    Hardware, same thing. I just like to point out two things, just because people get confused all the time. 1) The tuners are not SE tuners. They are similar to the phase II locking tuners (not the same, but very similar). 2) Only the guitars with tem bridge share the bridge with SEs. The ones with fixed bridges share the same bridge as Core fix bridges.

    There are things that are on S2s and CEs that, I agree, are inconsequential. For instance, why not use the SE pretend pearl birds? Instead they use a opaque plastic for the bird inlays. Why not use the CNC carved top similar to the SEs? Recessing the back plates could be done on a CNC without affecting the marginal cost (cost per unit), at least significantly. Why not do so? Because it affects the perception of the product.

    If you spend enough time with an S2 or a CE, you could reach the conclusion that in terms of feel and comfort, the upgrade to a Core is fairly small. Not because Core aren’t worth it, but because S2’s and CEs are that good. They need to cause an immediate impression the they are not at the level of Core guitars without affecting the playability of the guitar. One was to do this is through things that are inconsequential. Like, for instance, the recess of a back plate.

    The OP is not the 1st person that I’ve seen mentioning the non-recess back plates. I’ve seen a few gear reviewers mentioning it. Some even suggesting PRS to recess it because it felt cheap (reviewer’s word not mine). I think that’s the point. It emphasizes that Core are top of the line luxury guitars. If you can afford one, you should get one (those are my words). And you need to reach that conclusion in the first few minutes you try one for the first time. These small inconsequential things add up and they do matter.
     
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  5. andy474x

    andy474x Knows the Drill

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    TBH I can’t tell much difference between the S2 phase II tuners and the “core” tuners on my Mira 25th. I think as far as materials and construction, they’re extremely similar, both have brass shafts, metal lock screw, no nylon bushings, etc. And, in fact, I just got my 2 sets of the SE locking tuners in the mail yesterday, and those also appear almost identical to the other versions. I think it’s mostly the spec on washer sizes (metric vs US) , presence and/or location of a screw on the back that differentiates them... and that ain’t much. So those S2/SE phase II’s are good stuff. Heck, even the SE “import” trem is quite good compared to what comes on other import guitars, many of those have cheap, hollow pot metal blocks and other nasty stuff.

    I thought it was a little odd when I got my first S2 that the back plates weren’t recessed, but it hasn’t had any effect on my experience with the guitar. Still love it.
     
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  6. pac90

    pac90 In Helix Land, the waters warm

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    Ask your wife for a power tool for xmas, and DIY ?

    See from around 20min in this video. He's not a competitor, its an interesting build / relaxing watch for the geekery

     
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  7. GuitarJammin

    GuitarJammin New Member

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    Well i guess what I really meant was the tuners and hardware that comes on the Core series guitars is of higher quality, I agree it doesn't matter where they are made, but the quality matters. I've only had tuning issues on the one S2 satin i had and some (not all) SEs I've owned. Come to think about it the trem models on the S2s and SEs were not up to snuff for me. However I'm doing a lot of studio work most of the time...so i guess it may affect me more.
     
  8. alantig

    alantig Zombie Four, DFZ

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    But it also affects the cost. I don't know what it costs to change a CNC program - I'm sure it's probably not insignificant as a line item, but spread out over the course of 2-3 years, it's probably somewhat minimal per guitar. So let's agree that changing the program to do the carved top and recess the plates is not an issue. The problem is people seem to like their guitars to be smooth. What comes out of the CNC machine is not a finished product. The sanding of a carved top is not insignificant time-wise. It's been a while since I toured the S2 area, but the big cost savings there comes in the reduction of man-hours it takes to produce the guitars. Flat tops are easier to sand. Non-recessed plates are easier to sand. It also reduces opportunities for error - you're not going to sand away a chunk of the carve, or sand the area around the plate ledge too low. Every thing that you change that requires the workflow to change has a cost. What seems insignificant to us may have a much larger impact behind the scenes.
     
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  9. Alnus Rubra

    Alnus Rubra Loving nature’s wonders

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    Recessed plates do have an effect on cost, due to differences in tolerance following the lacquer stage and the need for “fettling” when fitting.

    Times this by the number of trem plates and there you have it.
     
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  10. grausch

    grausch New Member

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    Never thought about it this way. To be fair, when I played a CE24 instore I did not notice the non-recessed plates at all.
     
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  11. pauloqs

    pauloqs PRS McCarty

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    A fixed cost has no bearing on price. It is the price per unit that drives prices. So if it take 1h or a month to write the CAD program to add a recess for back plates is not relevant for explaining prices. At least from an economics point of view. So you’re right, not significant.

    I'm not convinced that recessing the back plate covers would change the manual labor requirements for sanding. Every single guitar with recessed back plates that I can remember had rough sanded recessed area. I mean, just in 2017 the LP faded, which had CNC‘d carved top, recessed back plates, American electronics and hardware was being sold for $700 ($699 US).

    Yes I understand that PRS are leaders in QC standards and final product perfectionism. However, we’re already paying for that. I’ve seen some really good Faded and bad ones. Some criticism regarding those guitars that you see online were warranted and others were just feeding the hive, but I’ve never heard anyone complain about rough sanded recess areas.
     
  12. Black Plaid

    Black Plaid just another Alan

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    The recess on my 91 isn't even sanded, much less rough sanded. The indent for the backplate must have been sanded tho.

    Is it possible, due to the thinner body, that there's not enough space for the springs if you recess the backplate?
     

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