Need More Validation?

[László]

Hey, what about us in the financial sector? Chopped liver?

Yes, unfortunately, but the redeeming thing is that chopped liver is pretty good when garnished with egg crumbles, and a little onion on an hors d’oeuvre cracker.

 

[László]

They keep leaving out dentists, and we demand to be heard.

Maybe if dentists didn’t always look down in the mouth?

[cymbal crash]

 

[ScottR]

Depends on the roles of the respective people. I don’t think it has much, if anything, to do with the doctor/lawyer BS, to be honest. It’s more a matter of doing what’s familiar.

Also, it’s different when you’re bringing in session players vs when you’re producing a band that already has a sound.

Imagine you’re a top record producer hired for a singer/songwriter’s record, with lots of hit albums under your belt, and you’re using session players for various parts.

You’re getting a large upfront fee plus points on the record, so there are expectations re: getting “your sound,” and there’s some time and budget pressure.

Session player strolls in with a PRS. You haven’t worked with PRS players much, if at all. You’re hearing a Telecaster part. So maybe you’re going to say to the player, “Have you got a Tele?”

Let’s say the player isn’t Tim Pierce or some famous cat; he/she is less proven, and is happy to get a paying gig on a big record. He/she wants to get more work from producer, and came in with 5 guitars in addition to the PRS. Is he going to argue with Producer? Probably not. Time is money. Instead he’s going to say, “Sure, I brought a Tele, want me to play that?”

Producer says, “Yeah, I’m hearing a Tele part.” End of discussion.

On the other hand, if the player is a member of the band and plays a PRS, there’s a much higher chance that the PRS goes on the record, because technically the band is employing the producer. A band member can say, “Hey, this is what I play and is the sound I’m after.” The producer has to respect that.

Or if as a producer I’m bringing in a player with a known sound, like a David Grissom, I know in advance what his sound is, I want his tone on the record, so I’m going to give him the freedom to get his sound.

This is exactly why you're my Tone Yoda man.

This is me...I am attracted/drawn to things of high quality, but even more so to things of the highest quality (it's a disease). So, It doesn't matter to me in the slightest, what others like or dislike about the my passion for the good stuff.

My philosophy has always been..."If I stink at something, it's gonna be 100% on me...NOT my equipment...no excuses." So PRS was just a natural fit for me. YRMV.

We as owners of these amazing guitars, already know what all the fuss is about, and what the haters are missing out on. Still, It does give me the warm fuzzies, when such a talented musician gives his/her stamp of approval. Just lets me know they have great taste...just like us.

 

[Mozzi]

This is exactly why you're my Tone Yoda man.

This is me...I am attracted/drawn to things of high quality, but even more so to things of the highest quality (it's a disease). So, It doesn't matter to me in the slightest, what others like or dislike about the my passion for the good stuff.

My philosophy has always been..."If I stink at something, it's gonna be 100% on me...NOT my equipment...no excuses." So PRS was just a natural fit for me. YRMV.

We as owners of these amazing guitars, already know what all the fuss is about, and what the haters are missing out on. Still, It does give me the warm fuzzies, when such a talented musician gives his/her stamp of approval. Just lets me know they have great taste...just like us.

I am the same - sometimes its a curse, rather going without something of lower quality because of the cost difference between that and the high quality version. I know its incredibly difficult to 'buy' gifts for me because if its not 'perfect', doesn't meet the standards I want or look for, I can seem to be extremely ungrateful - especially asking if they kept the receipt LOL

Paul is extremely confident that his guitars leave the factory in perfect condition, that anyone who buys online will have NO logical reason to return, that they are built so consistently that the only variation is in the density and/or grain of the woods - something that no Luthier can do anything about anyway as its 'natural'. Its not like you have to go to a music retailer and go through the selection of Custom built guitars to find the 'one', the one that doesn't have any 'small' issues (a bit heavy handed on the fret ends and taking a chunk out of the binding, some 'glue' not cleaned off properly around the neck, some stain on the binding not cleaned/scraped off etc) that probably don't affect the playability or tone but still shouldn't be evident on a £5k+ custom built guitar!! I see people losing their mind on an SE that isn't 100% cosmetically flawless so I don't know how they would cope if their Custom Shop £5k guitar turned up with stain on the binding...

 

[BWV548]

Depends on the roles of the respective people. I don’t think it has much, if anything, to do with the doctor/lawyer BS, to be honest. It’s more a matter of doing what’s familiar.

Also, it’s different when you’re bringing in session players vs when you’re producing a band that already has a sound.

Imagine you’re a top record producer hired for a singer/songwriter’s record, with lots of hit albums under your belt, and you’re using session players for various parts.

You’re getting a large upfront fee plus points on the record, so there are expectations re: getting “your sound,” and there’s some time and budget pressure.

Session player strolls in with a PRS. You haven’t worked with PRS players much, if at all. You’re hearing a Telecaster part. So maybe you’re going to say to the player, “Have you got a Tele?”

Let’s say the player isn’t Tim Pierce or some famous cat; he/she is less proven, and is happy to get a paying gig on a big record. He/she wants to get more work from producer, and came in with 5 guitars in addition to the PRS. Is he going to argue with Producer? Probably not. Time is money. Instead he’s going to say, “Sure, I brought a Tele, want me to play that?”

Producer says, “Yeah, I’m hearing a Tele part.” End of discussion.

On the other hand, if the player is a member of the band and plays a PRS, there’s a much higher chance that the PRS goes on the record, because technically the band is employing the producer. A band member can say, “Hey, this is what I play and is the sound I’m after.” The producer has to respect that.

Or if as a producer I’m bringing in a player with a known sound, like a David Grissom, I know in advance what his sound is, I want his tone on the record, so I’m going to give him the freedom to get his sound.

Interesting. This may be a stupid question, but why isn’t that worked out in advance? If I needed someone to play a bass part, but wanted it played on a D Violone, rather than a contrabass or bass guitar, I’d probably tell them before they show up. But I have no experience in the studio biz, so I’m sure I’m missing some subtleties

 

[RevBillyG]

We as owners of these amazing guitars, already know what all the fuss is about, and what the haters are missing out on.

I'm in the minority I guess. I appreciate my PRSi, but I still appreciate my Fenders, Gibsons, Deans, etc...

I don't even think in terms of better or best. Only different & I like different guitars.

But I'm thinking the general guitar buying public has come around on PRS. The market has import branded PRS at $1000us.... who cares what the haters are saying? PRS appears to be winning market share at every level.

 

[Steve's addiction]

I've said this before but when I wanted to buy that one really good guitar, I didn't want what every guitar players had which was a gibson or fender model. I was drawn to prs because I liked the way it looked and sounded. 6 guitars later I still love the way they look and sound. PRS hasn't fallen into that business model of " build a crap load of 'em, who cares about quality". People hate winners who beat their team. Not everyone will like a prs but nobody's perfect!

 

[GuitarJammin]

I owned a LONG list of guitars to end up with what i have. I tried it all, and if a guitar didn't cut it or I found a better one for the slot, it was sold. I tried modding, i tried alot of things....i am unbiased on brand...PRS just beat out the other guys in my main slots. (by slots i have catagories: Floyd guitar, LP, strat, church group guitar, and cheap guitar, 2 acoustic guitars, bass) Only ones PRS did not win was the cheap guitar slot, acoustic guitar, and bass.

Don't let anyone get under your skin over the PRS sterotypes, no guitar is for everyone. If PRS is your thing, own it!

 

[shallbe]

I have swapped some PRS pickups in the past. I don't like dark/overwound or too compressed pickups. I've played a lot of PRS and some of the pickups prior to the DGT revolution fit that description. But not all the old pickups are like that. One of the things I found is I LOVE the old A4 Artist pickups. So much so, I found 2 mint sets with gold slugs and put them in both my CU22 and my LP Custom.

 

[drdoom8793]

My PRSi actually get a lot of love from my local scene, but then again, ours is a younger scene of a lot of hard rock and metal bands. Not too many old heads cracking jokes about my PRSi and Kemper.

 

[László]

Interesting. This may be a stupid question, but why isn’t that worked out in advance?

Producers sometimes want to hear a part in context with the other tracks or band mix, and like options.

I’m a little different; I’m confident enough in my favorite players that they can play whatever guitars they feel will work for the part. I want their creative and tone input.

When I know exactly what I want (if I’m able to play it), I just play the part myself.

However, I’m picky about amps.

 

[Mozzi]

I would think that if you turned up with a Silver Sky, a SC594 and maybe a 509/513/Special 22 - perhaps a Cu24-08, I can't see any producer being upset if they said the wanted a stratty, LP or even a tele type tone. You probably could get away with taking just 1 of these if you know before hand what they want but with all of these, you can cover pretty much any sound they have in their mind - even if it doesn't say Fender or Gibson. If they want something specific, a specific instrument, then they should supply because every one of the guitars I mentioned can cover every eventuality (perhaps not the Acoustic) and certainly can be little/no different in the mix with the right effects, amps etc.

 

[László]

I would think that if you turned up with a Silver Sky, a SC594 and maybe a 509/513/Special 22 - perhaps a Cu24-08, I can't see any producer being upset if they said the wanted a stratty, LP or even a tele type tone. You probably could get away with taking just 1 of these if you know before hand what they want but with all of these, you can cover pretty much any sound they have in their mind - even if it doesn't say Fender or Gibson. If they want something specific, a specific instrument, then they should supply because every one of the guitars I mentioned can cover every eventuality (perhaps not the Acoustic) and certainly can be little/no different in the mix with the right effects, amps etc.

You know this about those models; I know this about those models; but that’s not the way it works in real life for a few reasons.

Like anyone else, producers come with their own ideas and biases (some are flexible, others aren’t), but there are certain expectations based on the role of the producer and the role of the session player. If the producer balks at a particular guitar, no session player wants to be in the position of having to say, “Yeah, I have one of those, but I have to go home and get it,” or worse, “I need you to provide one of those.”

A session player is a supplier, and is expected to have the stuff competitive suppliers have, ready to go. Just as a company you do business with is expected to bring all of their own tools that might be required to do the job, period.

And absolutely no one wants to slow the creative process down for even 30 seconds with an argument whether some instrument is, or isn’t, exactly what the producer wants. It would be totally unprofessional and leave a very bad impression.

What I’d do as a session player would be to bring both, and at the very most say, “My PRS Silver Sky sounds better to me than any modern Strat I’ve played, but I brought a regular Strat along just in case. Shall I try the PRS?”

Session players are expected bring their own instruments, and this makes sense, since their own instruments will be set up the way they like, and they’ll be used to playing them. In fact, fees for the cartage of a session player’s equipment are built into the American Federation of Musicians session fee schedule, and I’d imagine something similar is true for the UK and European markets.

No producer has time for complaints/excuses that a session player isn’t used to, or happy with, an instrument or amplifier handed to them. And no session player would willingly put him/herself in that truly uncomfortable position.

In fact, unless a producer offers the guitarist an amp (“We have great amps at this studio, so just bring your guitars”), the guitarist is expected to bring his/her own amp (sometimes several amps).

More to the point, as often as not the most in-demand producers don’t work at their own studios, or even in their own countries; there’s a world market for those with the right discography. Even I (a lowly nobody) have worked in Europe producing ad projects, but ad sessions aren’t as important as record dates.

Just as a film director isn’t expected to bring a camera to a film production - that’s the job of the production company and/or cameraman - a producer is hired to make decisions, not to provide the gear to implement those decisions.

 

[Tucson Thump]

Gibson, you pretty much have to spend PRS Core money to get a guitar that’s made well.

Here, Here!

 

[Mozzi]

You know this about those models; I know this about those models; but that’s not the way it works in real life for a few reasons.

Like anyone else, producers come with their own ideas and biases (some are flexible, others aren’t), but there are certain expectations based on the role of the producer and the role of the session player. If the producer balks at a particular guitar, no session player wants to be in the position of having to say, “Yeah, I have one of those, but I have to go home and get it,” or worse, “I need you to provide one of those.”

A session player is a supplier, and is expected to have the stuff competitive suppliers have, ready to go. Just as a company you do business with is expected to bring all of their own tools that might be required to do the job, period.

And absolutely no one wants to slow the creative process down for even 30 seconds with an argument whether some instrument is, or isn’t, exactly what the producer wants. It would be totally unprofessional and leave a very bad impression.

What I’d do as a session player would be to bring both, and at the very most say, “My PRS Silver Sky sounds better to me than any modern Strat I’ve played, but I brought a regular Strat along just in case. Shall I try the PRS?”

Session players are expected bring their own instruments, and this makes sense, since their own instruments will be set up the way they like, and they’ll be used to playing them. In fact, fees for the cartage of a session player’s equipment are built into the American Federation of Musicians session fee schedule, and I’d imagine something similar is true for the UK and European markets.

No producer has time for complaints/excuses that a session player isn’t used to, or happy with, an instrument or amplifier handed to them. And no session player would willingly put him/herself in that truly uncomfortable position.

In fact, unless a producer offers the guitarist an amp (“We have great amps at this studio, so just bring your guitars”), the guitarist is expected to bring his/her own amp (sometimes several amps).

More to the point, as often as not the most in-demand producers don’t work at their own studios, or even in their own countries; there’s a world market for those with the right discography. Even I (a lowly nobody) have worked in Europe producing ad projects, but ad sessions aren’t as important as record dates.

Just as a film director isn’t expected to bring a camera to a film production - that’s the job of the production company and/or cameraman - a producer is hired to make decisions, not to provide the gear to implement those decisions.

I am not in that position - as in I don't do session work. I think its incredible that a Producer etc would expect you to bring your entire gear 'just in case' they want you to use something specific (like a Fender Strat and not a PRS Silver Sky etc) - especially considering not ALL guitars of the same brand and model sound identical and nothing to say you even have the 'stock' pick-ups. Add in the amps/cabs you own too, you can't own every single one that has been made - just in case they want you to play a specific brand and model, with the specific PU's to get that 'specific' sound through a specific Amp and specific Cab with the specific speakers mic'd a specific way.

I can understand you requiring to bring your own Guitars but if you are being hired, wouldn't you be hired because you can play and deliver the right guitar part that they can perhaps tweak with the right software to extract what frequencies they want, EQ'd the way they want and add FX after too if they want.

As I said, I don't know how it works myself but if you have been hired, surely they are hiring you because they can rely on you to get the right tone, create the right Solo based on your own talents, and get it done quickly and efficiently so they aren't paying too much for studio and everybodys time. I can understand them asking for 'humbickers or SC's, something LP or Stratty like before you arrive but having to take all your gear just in case they want a specific brand etc seems too much but if that's what happens....

 

[László]

As I said, I don't know how it works myself but if you have been hired, surely they are hiring you because they can rely on you to get the right tone, create the right Solo based on your own talents, and get it done quickly and efficiently so they aren't paying too much for studio and everybodys time. I can understand them asking for 'humbickers or SC's, something LP or Stratty like before you arrive but having to take all your gear just in case they want a specific brand etc seems too much but if that's what happens....

Here’s a quote from Brent Mason; he’s done more sessions on records than anyone in the world, and he knows the ropes. This was published in International Musician:

“If we don’t have the luxury of hearing the stuff before we get there, I’ll bring the whole kit and caboodle—20 to 30 different guitars—a couple Fender guitars: Stratocasters; some PRS guitars—a baritone; some Gibsons—a Les Paul, a 335. You may run into something where you want a hollow-body sound, so a Gretsch with a Bigsby. I’ll bring a Rickenbacker, a 12-string, and maybe a sitar.” (Emphasis added)

This is not atypical. Also, he’ll show up with a rack of 3-6 amps. Lots of players will do this, depending on the session.

Whether you or I have an opinion, this is the reality for a major player.

 

[Mozzi]

Here’s a quote from Brent Mason; he’s done more sessions on records than anyone in the world, and he knows the ropes. This was published in International Musician:

“If we don’t have the luxury of hearing the stuff before we get there, I’ll bring the whole kit and caboodle—20 to 30 different guitars—a couple Fender guitars: Stratocasters; some PRS guitars—a baritone; some Gibsons—a Les Paul, a 335. You may run into something where you want a hollow-body sound, so a Gretsch with a Bigsby. I’ll bring a Rickenbacker, a 12-string, and maybe a sitar.” (Emphasis added)

This is not atypical. Also, he’ll show up with a rack of 3-6 amps. Lots of players will do this, depending on the session.

Whether you or I have an opinion, this is the reality for a major player.

As I said, I have absolutely no experience of being a session musician so my posts were more out of surprise rather than from any actual experience or knowledge. I can now imagine Brent turning up to lay down a 4 bar solo and some over dubs to add something to the chords to a track that has everything else recorded with a massive trailer packed full of guitars and amps...

With modern technology, there could and perhaps should be a way for Session musicians to do their parts in their own home studio with the record producer in theirs. They could communicate via Skype and have the guitar part almost immediately as its streamed in High Quality across to the studio. Having everything set up, all their own gear etc would save a lot of time for both people - less time travelling, loading/unloading gear, waiting for the gear to be set-up etc.

All I can say is that I am glad I am not a Session musician because that would drive me mad. I would want to know in advance of what to bring, at most a couple of different instruments (something SC loaded, a double humbucker guitar and maybe my HBii or Acoustic), my pedal board and at most, just 1/2 amp heads and a cab. With that, regardless of 'brand' you should be able to deliver something that can fit in the Mix and digitally manipulate the sound with the EQ.

I feel sorry now for Tim Pierce, Brent Mason and any other Session Musician that would be required to take their entire gear to a studio, loading and unloading it just in case some thing is needed. Barely getting any recognition or choice for your contribution etc.

 

[László]

With modern technology, there could and perhaps should be a way for Session musicians to do their parts in their own home studio with the record producer in theirs. They could communicate via Skype and have the guitar part almost immediately as its streamed in High Quality across to the studio. Having everything set up, all their own gear etc would save a lot of time for both people - less time travelling, loading/unloading gear, waiting for the gear to be set-up etc.

And that is an increasing reality where the parts are only overdubs. I’ve done it many times, and have used Face Time to communicate with the player.

However, it’s not the same as being in the same place. Something good often happens when several people are in the same room. There’s really no substitute for in-person relationships.

Many of the world’s best sessions are still done live, with bands in the room. It gives the record a great feel, and it’s still done that way at the highest levels of the business. Don’t forget that there’s more than a solo; there are rhythm parts, etc., throughout the record. If you’re in sessions on an album for a week, you’re not very upset about dragging in your gear.

Don’t feel badly for the guys who take tons of gear to sessions. They’re paid for it - note my earlier reference to ‘cartage’ fees. And they’re making double and triple scale by the hour.

Guys who play for nickels and dimes or for free at your local bar, and drag all their gear along, are the ones who need moral support.

 

[Beery Swine]

I don't need validation for liking any guitar, but that was a fun video nonetheless.

 

[ScottR]

And that is an increasing reality where the parts are only overdubs. I’ve done it many times, and have used Face Time to communicate with the player.

However, it’s not the same as being in the same place. Something good often happens when several people are in the same room. There’s really no substitute for in-person relationships.

Many of the world’s best sessions are still done live, with bands in the room. It gives the record a great feel, and it’s still done that way at the highest levels of the business. Don’t forget that there’s more than a solo; there are rhythm parts, etc., throughout the record. If you’re in sessions on an album for a week, you’re not very upset about dragging in your gear.

Don’t feel badly for the guys who take tons of gear to sessions. They’re paid for it - note my earlier reference to ‘cartage’ fees. And they’re making double and triple scale by the hour.

Guys who play for nickels and dimes or for free at your local bar, and drag all their gear along, are the ones who need moral support.

This stuff is fascinating! I've always been intrigued by the idea of how all the studio stuff comes together. To you I'm sure it's second nature, to me it's as mysterious as the girls locker room when I was in Jr. High (early Jr. High).


Either way, I have a great respect for anyone that makes their living creating/supporting music/musicians.

I'm ashamed to admit it...but I live less than an hour from "Fame Studios" in Muscle Shoals, yet I've never stepped foot in an actual studio. Yup, I think a field trip is waaaaay overdue!