Guidance for a PRS Newbie

[mabands]

I'm thinking very strongly about buying my first PRS. I've always been more of a Fender player (strat, tele, jazzmaster, tele deluxe), but I recently played a few PRS at a local store for the first time and learned how amazing they are.

After much research I think I'd most like an older (pre narrowfield) Swamp Ash Special or a CE22 mahogany/maple topped version. The extra middle pickup in the SAS aside, can someone describe how different and/or similar these two models would sound?

I've been able to play a used SAS at a local store and thought it was great, but I've never had my hands on a CE22.

Thank you for your help.

 

[rugerpc]

If you are a long time Fender player and that sound I’d more in your wheelhouse as opposed to humbuckers, be sure to also look at the 305 model, the 513 and the new Silver Sky.

Between new and used, PRS has LOTS of single coil options!

 

[mabands]

Thanks but I like to broaden the pallet a bit so I'm not looking for PRS single coils. But I don't want to quite go into full mahogany/humbucker territory either. My thinking was the SAS and CE22 would be a bit brighter versions of the humbucker based PRS guitars so would be a good fit.

I also have to consider budget so I'd like to stay under 1500.

 

[rugerpc]

All things being equal, though they never are, a CU24 is going to sound brighter than a CU22. At least for the neck pup since it will be physically closer to the bridge on the 24.

 

[mabands]

Right, I need to consider the CE24 as well. I want to stick with the bolt-on maple neck models.

Any comparisons between the CE models and the SAS?

 

[JJJ]

Hi mate. I am the other way round, I have never laid hands on a swamp ash special.

As a point of interest, there are versions of the current CEs floating around that have swamp ash bodies, they look really great and I nearly bought one.

Here is my CE22 from 2002, mahogany/maple top:

I can't compare it to a SAS obviously, but anything else you want to know?

As a long time strat player I found this very comfortable. I am of the opinion these first versions of the CE are superior to the new ones, and second hand are more affordable. They have quartersawn one piece necks, all US parts incl. the brass block etc and of course come with the hard case. The new models appear to me to be very expensive S2s. Only thing is, I have noticed quite a lot of the older ones have been played very hard and beat up. This one is off to my tech on wednesday due to some cracks from the neck pocket - this is something you will have to keep an eye out for if you go shopping for a CE.. I mean, it's not unusual for a bolt on and it certainly didn't stop me buying mine, but it's something to keep in mind.

If you're a fender dude though I am not sure if you will like the pickups much. The Dragon IIs are IMO oriented towards the thicker/heavier end. They still have a vintage touch to them, they're not high output, but they're hotter than a vintage PAF and the bridge in particular seems to want all the gain it can be fed, all the time. Which is not bad thing if you are me, but these sets do cop a lot of crap on the net and it seems to be from dudes who like their cleans and don't dirty things too much.

Oh and btw the necks on the CE22s are BIG. I think they are the wide fat but they seem to have more shoulder to them than the newer WFs. Wide like an acoustic, excellent for people like me who find the strings too close together on a lot of skinny-necked strats, but not for everyone. Also if you like your single coils, maybe look for one with the rotary switch rather than the three way, as I believe they split coils. Mine does not.

 

[markd21]

The CE22 seemed to have a slightly nasal upper midrange to me compared to my CU22 - the differences there are set-neck mahogany vs. bolt-on maple neck. Both were equipped with Dragon IIs, both had trems, both had maple tops. In the end for me, it was the CU22 that I kept. The CE22 was sent to a new home.

The old SAS seemed to have a little more "snap" to me than the CE22. The one I was considering (bought at GC for a "trial period" - 45 day return policy and all) had a maple board. In all honesty I wasn't a big fan. I think if I played mostly clean or with a different type of "drive" than I do it would have been a keeper. But, at the time I was considering it, I didn't bond. The "snap" mixed with the heavy drive created what I considered a "splattery" tone. However, others might hear it differently - don't take my experience as gospel. As a side note, I am not a fan of the McCarty pickups either.

Now, I know you aren't asking...but I am gonna throw in a bit of info about the SAS NF. THAT guitar was a KILLER. The NF pickups have the "snap" mixed with a smoothness that allows for glorious tones. The in-between positions are near godly...and of course the individual pick-up positions slay. I let mine go in a trade so I could get something "fancier". It's a low priority, but if another popped up at the right price, I'd grab it....

Hope this helps!

 

[Boogie]

...I don't want to quite go into full mahogany/humbucker territory...

If you played a DGT Standard through the right amp, you’d change your mind instantly. Or split the difference and go for a maple top DGT. You could sound like this...

 

[mabands]

Thank you for the replies, this helps. I've read that some people don't like the older PRS pickups, whether they're Dragon I's, II's, McCarty's, etc. but I'm fine with swapping pickups if I need to. As long as I can find a great guitar. As for the Narrowfield pups I think I'd prefer the option to easily change to the multitude of humbucker options, at least for my first PRS.

I do like the idea of the extra "snap" from an SAS. I also am fine with the older wide/fat neck. The older SAS I played had one and I liked it. Also, I don't play with what i would consider heavy drive. My amps are a 68 Custom Princeton and a Vox AC10 and I mainly use what are considerd overdrive pedals, not distortion pedals, but I do often stack them.

That DGT sounds great in the video. My concern would be the frets. I don't like really tall frets and I've read that it has jumbo frets. Maybe I'm wrong on that.

More questions:
So how much brighter are the CE guitars from the CU equivalents?

And do you think a 24 fret would be better than 22 sound wise for someone used to mostly Fender guitars. My only 24 fret guitar is a Rick 360, which I do like a lot.

 

[JJJ]

well, IME the PRS 'jumbo' frets are not very tall. They are like a dome shape, once they've been levelled they don't really feel like big modern wire if you know what I mean, but they're easier to play than vintage sized wire. If you hear jumbo and think about Ibanez type jumbo, then yeah it's not that big. Could be fatter than what you find on most strats, although i think the current US models all have really tall wire on them?

The bolt-ons are noticeably brighter, at least I think so. People can theorise about sustain and attack all day long, I haven't noticed that kind of difference. The difference is mostly in the feel and they do seem to be a bit more trebly

 

[Boogie]

That DGT sounds great in the video. My concern would be the frets. I don't like really tall frets and I've read that it has jumbo frets. Maybe I'm wrong on that.

Anywhere else, on any other guitar, I’d agree that Jumbos are an acquired taste (I have them on a Les Paul...glorious!). But the DGT has a very special formula going for it; one you need to experience to believe. With the stock 11s, it is the most comfortable playing guitar I own. The neck carve, rolled edges, the trem, 11s, and those frets result in something magical that defies the string gauge. It was over a decade in development by DG and he’s one picky dude! Seriously, go play one.

 

[bodia]

Anywhere else, on any other guitar, I’d agree that Jumbos are an acquired taste (I have them on a Les Paul...glorious!). But the DGT has a very special formula going for it; one you need to experience to believe. With the stock 11s, it is the most comfortable playing guitar I own. The neck carve, rolled edges, the trem, 11s, and those frets result in something magical that defies the string gauge. It was over a decade in development by DG and he’s one picky dude! Seriously, go play one.

Well said! Totally agree!

 

[11top]

Where's the single cut love?

 

[shinksma]

If you have the ability to procure a non-NF SAS for a reasonable price, I would snag it, especially if it has birds, but even if it has moons (YMMV there as to preferences). I love my (non-NF) SAS. Is the SAS you are looking at maple fretboard or rosewood? The rosewood will give a warmer tone (like it does on a strat). Mine has a maple FB.

I also like the stock pups on my SAS, which I think are McCarty pickups, and they sound just right for the model. YMMV.

Then, after you bond with the SAS, explore other models like the CU24 or DGT or SC594 or ...

 

[mabands]

If you have the ability to procure a non-NF SAS for a reasonable price, I would snag it. I love my (non-NF) SAS. Is the SAS you are looking at maple fretboard or rosewood?

What would be a reasonable price? The SAS I've been able to play has a maple fretboard and a ton of playing wear on it, which I normally wouldn't mind, but I think this one has had the frets dressed a couple times and are now too low. It also seemed very overpriced compared to what I've seen when searching old Reverb listings.

But I'm still trying to figure out the reasonable price range for a non-NF SAS. Does 1000-1400 sound right? The problem is that there doesn't seem to be many SAS's out there for sale, or I'm looking in the wrong places.

Also, what's a reasonable price range for a CE22?

 

[mabands]

As a follow up, I decided to go with a CE22. I bought one on reverb at what I thought was a good price (1150) and it should be here next week. It's a 2005 model, black cherry, dragon II's, trem, etc. Can't wait.

Thank you to everyone who helped with their knowledge and experience.

 

[shinksma]

Sorry I missed being able to respond - Experience and related activities, and that work thing, consumed me.

That looks to be a fair price for a CE in "good" or better condition!

As for pricing for a non-NF SAS: if the guitar is in good shape otherwise, has birds, and just needs new frets, then $1100 to $1300. If frets good, then $1300 to $1500 seems typical. Cut the price by at least $200 if moons instead of birds. Maple vs IRW board is neither here nor there, AFAICT, just seems the maple ones are harder to find sometimes.

 

[JJJ]

As a follow up, I decided to go with a CE22. I bought one on reverb at what I thought was a good price (1150) and it should be here next week. It's a 2005 model, black cherry, dragon II's, trem, etc. Can't wait.

Thank you to everyone who helped with their knowledge and experience.

As a ce22 owner I think you have made a fine choice. They're an excellent guitar. Black cherry is a nice finish too I am guessing it's a maple top

 

[Outlier22]

I also am late in my reply. I am also a former Strat player so that has been my comfort zone. I was going to recommend that you look hard at the CE22 and I see you already bought one so Congrats! Post picks when you get it.

I ended up buying one of the new CE24's which would also be a great choice. But as a former strat player, I have found an issue with the 24 fret guitar. With the pickup pushed back it's right under where I normally pick. This is okay but I find myself unconsciously moving my hand back to compensate. And when strumming too hard in this position I end up hitting the volume button at some point and accidentally turning it down. ...I'm sure it's just something I'm going to have to get used to.

I like the extra frets but 21 has always been good enough for me and I can't help to think if an older CE22 would have given me more room between pickups and been more natural??? Anyway, congrats again!

 

[mabands]

I am guessing it's a maple top

Yes it's a maple top version. From the photos it's in very good condition with one decent ding on the left side but I won't have my hands on it until next week.

What can I expect from the dragon II pickups?