Setting Up A Real Amp - How I Do It.

[Deleted member 5962]

Probably not any clearer, but at least you know I get what you’re saying.

I totally get what you're saying. My perspective was my own experience the last few years. I've always leaned heavily towards the sounds of Marshall amps. I've hesitated to buy one because everything I hear about those great plexi and JCM800 tones I loved was "have to be loud to get that tone." But I've also heard Vox tones and Fender tones and Mark tones and Recto tones etc., that I really liked. So I "know" I'd like them and wanted to see if I really couldn't live without them.

So I tried a bunch of amps. Had a Vox AC30hw2x, the most expensive version they make. Multiple Mesa amps, and some others. I could have gladly kept them all, but after spending hours and hours turning knobs (on the Marks, mainly) found that the tones I really wanted were available in the Archon and something in the Marshall area, which for me right now is a Bogner.

And again, I really liked almost every one of those amps. I loved some of them until something better came along. But the only ones I can't live without are the Archon and Bogner. I still have an eye open for a particular amp or two. But "not bonding" can mean anything from "didn't like it's tone" to "it won't work in my situation. I'd love a JCM800 full stack, but needing to turn it up to 4 for "that tone" is a non- starter for me.

 

[László]

This statement is interesting. Since various amps are intentionally voiced differently, it’s not at all surprising that someone would bond with one and not another, no matter how much knob turning they do. To imply otherwise means that turning the knobs on any amp, would yield the exact tone you are going for, and if that were the case, then you’d only need one amp.

The reason I cringe when I see the bonding thing is, who the heck buys an amp without at least hearing a demo of it? Would you buy an amp on a complete flyer without knowing anything about how it sounds?

If so, you're a pretty unique fellow!

Most players I know do a ton of research, if not playing the actual amp in person.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

The reason I cringe when I see the bonding thing is, who the heck buys an amp without at least hearing a demo of it? Would you buy an amp on a complete flyer without knowing anything about how it sounds?

If so, you're a pretty unique fellow!

Most players I know do a ton of research, if not playing the actual amp in person.

I think by now that we all know I'm a pretty "unique" fellow. And I never said anything about not knowing how an amp sounds before buying it. Read my follow up post about all the amps I tried. I liked them all. Some more than others. But in the end, I found something better for what I wanted. In fact, you yourself have "moved on" from some great amps because you found something you like better. No matter how many demo's you've heard, I can't imagine there were none you tried that just did not live up to expectations. And I can't imagine that there are many people who have heard the produced tones on an album and have been convinced that was THE amp for them, but tried it in person and just didn't bond with it. Lastly, not everyone has a chance to play every amp they think they will love, before purchasing it.

Maybe I'm wrong. I just thought it was a bit curious that someone would actually cringe because someone else didn't bond with something. I mean, the above applies to all kinds of things in life... we all dated girls that we thought might be the one, drove cars that we though we'd love, made business decisions that we thought were great, maybe even bought houses that we thought were the right one, only to find out later that we were wrong. Since amps are so "situation dependent" it's not surprising to me that guys buy something they think they'll love, and then it doesn't work for their situation. Example would be my Plexi or JCM800 examples in previous post. No way those amps work for me unless I buy an attenuator. But I'd love the crap out of them if I had a big space to play them.

 

[RickP]

I think by now that we all know I'm a pretty "unique" fellow. And I never said anything about not knowing how an amp sounds before buying it. Read my follow up post about all the amps I tried. I liked them all. Some more than others. But in the end, I found something better for what I wanted. In fact, you yourself have "moved on" from some great amps because you found something you like better. No matter how many demo's you've heard, I can't imagine there were none you tried that just did not live up to expectations. And I can't imagine that there are many people who have heard the produced tones on an album and have been convinced that was THE amp for them, but tried it in person and just didn't bond with it. Lastly, not everyone has a chance to play every amp they think they will love, before purchasing it.

Maybe I'm wrong. I just thought it was a bit curious that someone would actually cringe because someone else didn't bond with something. I mean, the above applies to all kinds of things in life... we all dated girls that we thought might be the one, drove cars that we though we'd love, made business decisions that we thought were great, maybe even bought houses that we thought were the right one, only to find out later that we were wrong. Since amps are so "situation dependent" it's not surprising to me that guys buy something they think they'll love, and then it doesn't work for their situation. Example would be my Plexi or JCM800 examples in previous post. No way those amps work for me unless I buy an attenuator. But I'd love the crap out of them if I had a big space to play them.

After a lot of consideration about this “bonding” statement, to me “not bonding” with something means you didn’t like it, not that you didn’t eventually find something you liked better. My “cringing” was in reference to someone spending thousands of dollars on something then deciding they didn’t like the sound of it... which makes me think Les is referring to the same phenomenon. I don’t think either of us are referring to the same thing that you are, and that’s why we’re not connecting.

If you purchased an expensive amp, got it and explored what that amp does for you, and decided that the sound you knew that amp made wasn’t the best fit for you, that isn’t failing to bond with it in the context I intended. You just decided salt wasn’t the right ingredient in your recipe... not that “I just couldn’t bond with that salty taste.”

What I’m referring to is the player who would rather throw darts in the dark than research a purchase, then applies the same lack of effort to exploring what that purchase is capable of before moving on. That’s not you (@DreamTheaterRules ) at all, and I was very apparently less than clear on that. My apologies to you, or anyone else that felt an undeserved pointing finger there. For the others, I’m still cringing!

 

[Alnus Rubra]

I hear you Rick. Buy in haste, repent at leisure!

 

[Deleted member 5962]

No apologies needed. (but thanks for saying that!) I get where you're coming from. I do hang out at TGP, so I know exactly where you're coming from.

My response was more in reply to Les' post right above mine.

I tried numerous amps that I knew had something to offer that I would like. When I wasn't "Sure" I'd buy used, try them thoroughly, and then decide whether to keep or sell. But sometimes you just don't know until you try something. Look at how many guys ran out and bought that new 20 watt Marshall "plexi" thinking "FINALLY, Plexi tone at lower volumes," only to find out it is VERY loud when it gives up the magic plexi tones, and they still need an attenuator to use it, even at gigs. And now MANY of those guys are going to back to a big iron plexi type amp with either a good post PI master, or an attenuator. The clips sounded great and people flocked to them. The volume required to make them sound that way didn't work out for a lot of guys.

 

[László]

In fact, you yourself have "moved on" from some great amps because you found something you like better. No matter how many demo's you've heard, I can't imagine there were none you tried that just did not live up to expectations.

On the contrary, I've never laid out money for an amp that didn't meet or exceed expectations, and this is going back to 1966! I've always known pretty much the sounds I was interested in, and have bought amps that I knew would work (my first amp was a combo amp for a combo organ, so that doesn't really count, but I used it for 3 years anyway, an Ampeg Reverberocket II - so even though I repelaced it with a Black Panel Bassman head, it was still ok).

As with most folks, I've played through amps I didn't care for at stores, or at friends' studios (or my studio when session players have brought their amps), but I didn't buy those amps in the first place.

I've moved amps for other reasons.

Sometimes my studio needs have changed with respect to client style requests, and the sale proceeds were needed for other amps for important projects. At times, my style of music has changed a bit and resulted in those sales (this happened when I switched from Two-Rocks in 2013-14, after playing them for a decade - I liked TRs enough that I bought 5 or 6 o them - so it wasn't as though I didn't bond with them). There have been times I've given amps to my son (for years I only had one amp at a time in my studio). Occasions have arisen where I've sold an amp to generate cash for studio gear for a project, or because I had GAS and was looking for a quick source of dough.

I've always bought the best amps I could afford over the years, and played through 95% of them before dropping the coin. t's kind of hard to screw up if you're not really looking for bargains, and you do your homework and play through the amps you're interested in first. At this point, however, I can hear a demo on YouTube and figure out whether the amp would work for me without much trouble.

I try not to compromise when it comes to amp-buying. When price is a factor, playing amps in stores has convinced me the the tradeoffs aren't worth the price savings. "90 % of great" is still ten percent less than great, and therefore unacceptable. Yeah, I'm that guy who hates compromises.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

On the contrary, I've never laid out money for an amp that didn't meet or exceed expectations

I have to congratulate you on that. In all my years of guitar playing, and the last 20 spent in internet guitar forums so hearing from thousands of players all over the world and at all levels, you're the only person I've ever heard say that.

And that makes YOU a pretty unique fellow. And a lucky one. I'd have that HX/DA if not for all the other amps I tried that didn't quite make it.

 

[László]

I have to congratulate you on that. In all my years of guitar playing, and the last 20 spent in internet guitar forums so hearing from thousands of players all over the world and at all levels, you're the only person I've ever heard say that.

And that makes YOU a pretty unique fellow. And a lucky one. I'd have that HX/DA if not for all the other amps I tried that didn't quite make it.

Could be luck. Could be knowing what to listen for before I buy. Could be both. Could be I'm usually willing to go for higher-priced stuff, where maybe the chances of hitting on a good amp are higher.

Could be I'm just not that picky. Could be that I usually install NOS tubes. Lots of possibilities.

But...could it be related in a small way to knowing how to set up an amp, which is the subject of this thread? And before I buy, perhaps knowing how to set up an amp and explore its capabilities before I spend the dough and commit to it has something to do with outcomes?



Also, I know for a fact I'm not alone or unique. I know lots of pros who don't have a problem "bonding" with amps they buy.

Unlike the members of the Internet forums you're speaking of, the pros I know have a good idea of what they're looking and listening for when buying an amp. I've never actually heard one of my session players say they didn't bond with an amp they bought. Doesn't mean it hasn't ever happened, of course. Maybe they just don't want to talk about the misses and only want to talk about the hits.

In any case, I think in many cases, people give up on the amp they thought would be great before they need to. I also think many players don't have a clear understanding of what to listen for before they buy, but that's true of musicians not knowing what to listen for when they show up in a studio as well.

There are sometimes too many things to focus on, and people get a little confused.

But...the same is true of guitars. I didn't know I wouldn't care for an infused "bare wood" kind of finish until I had one. So I'm certainly not perfect in that regard!

 

[vchizzle]

Lots of great points as always Les. I can generally tell within 5 minutes if I vibe with an amp or not. I use the term vibe because it’s more of a feeling I get that either makes me want to play or not play. The most fun I’ve had over the pandemic has been just finding inspiration in tones different from what I might consider my ideal or usual sound. Just exploring sounds and finding a use for them. These are the same amps I’ve had for quite awhile. While I haven’t played nearly the amount in the last year and a half, it’s been the longest break in having to play anything ever that I can remember. Nothing to work on, prepare for, just listen and enjoy the guitar tones. Not that there hasn’t been frustrating parts. There have been plenty. There’s been a certain freedom that I haven’t had in almost 2 decades. Wish I would’ve had a space to be uninterrupted for that whole time. I had a point somewhere in there before I started rambling stream of consciousness. Guess that’ll happen after 2 am and several beers.

 

[11top]

Les, Will you come over and set my Kemper? Thanks in advance.







Yeah, I’m a glutton for punishment.
Happy Memorial Day weekend everyone. Lady and gentlemen, start your engines!

 

[László]

Les, Will you come over and set my Kemper? Thanks in advance.







Yeah, I’m a glutton for punishment.
Happy Memorial Day weekend everyone. Lady and gentlemen, start your engines!

That’s a good question! I’d like to try.

I’m pretty sure that with a little practice I could capture a reasonably good sounding profile.

Seems like that’s a good chunk of the battle.

How much adjustment you get with the tone controls and dynamic range would be fun to play around with, too.

So I’m game.