Setting Up A Real Amp - How I Do It.

László

Too Many Notes
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I thought I'd share a few ideas about setting up tube amps, and share a few things I experiment with to discover how to get 'my sound' out of a new amp.

Most players I talk with start by setting everything at noon, tweak from there, and for that reason never get close to discovering what their shiny new amp can really do. Here's why:

Most (not all) tube amps have passive tone controls. That means all their tone controls do is cut frequencies.

It also means that with the amplifie's tone controls set to noon, it's actually cutting bass, midrange and treble. Amps with passive volume controls have a flat frequency response with the tone controls all the way up.

When we read about legendary Marshall or Black Panel Fender players "cranking" everything to ten on the tone controls, well, they're not. They're simply not cutting any frequencies.

Oh yes, the amp has more gain when it doesn't cut frequencies. Makes sense, right? You're letting more signal reach the power amp.

[There are amps that really are flat with the controls at noon, that boost when the tone control is increased, and cut when it's decreased. If memory serves, some Tweed amps do that, as well as others, but offhand I can't remember which ones have those active tone controls. My amps all have passive tone controls.]

On a passive tone control amp, all tone controls on 10 bypasses the tone controls' effect. Bypass the tone controls, and give the amp a little volume and that's what your amp sounds like at heart. Experiment from there.

This doesn't mean you should always (or regularly) put all the controls on ten.
It's simply interesting to see what the amp really sounds like before you cut frequencies. THEN start cutting and shaping the sound.

If you start with no frequency cuts, and experiment with each control, you'll get a feel for what it does. By the same token, if you turn all the tone controls down to zero - you won't get a sound - and go through the entire range of each control seeing what it does, what its turnover frequencies are, etc, you'll get another perspective.

You can't really understand your tone controls if you don't actually have a feel for what each one does.

The same principle can be applied to the volume, gain, master, and other options. Find out the range of each one, and see how the other controls affect it.

Ah, then there's the presence control. Who the heck knows what that thing does. Well, I kinda do, though I can't explain the technical details of how it's done. I'm not Dr. Science. I'm just some guy. You want science? Ask Em7. ;)

What I do know is that the presence control is not part of the preamp section like the tone controls. It's part of the power amp section. It comes after the preamp does its thing, and before the power amp's output does its thing. It usually does something to the phase, which of course cancels out or affects certain frequencies in a different way (phase cancellation is a frequency whose signal is out of phase. When one signal is out of phase, and the same frequency is in phase, the frequency is cancelled. Humbuckers and balanced audio lines use this principle to eliminate hum. A lot of players work on their tone, go into a different room with the amp, and don't want to mess up their carefully set tone controls. So a presence control can help.

Then there's the room.

A substantial part of what you think you hear coming from an amp isn't the amp. It's the reflections off the ceiling, walls, and floor of the room. And every room has different modes that exaggerate or null out certain frequencies, different reflection points, and blah blah blah I could go on, but let's just say that your amp sounds different in a different room. Your amp sounds different raised off the floor than on the floor. It sounds different at different volume levels, not only because of its gain increasing, but because it interacts with the room differently at different volumes.

You'll often hear people say they can't get a recording to sound like the amp sounds in a room. They blame the mic. They blame the engineer.

Well, you don't listen to an amp when you're playing with your ear an inch from the grille cloth; you hear it after all those reflections start bouncing around a room.

It isn't the mic. It isn't the engineer. It's the placement. Put a mic in the room instead of up against the grille, you'll hear something a lot closer to what you hear in the room. Move it closer to the amp to hear less of the room Farther back to hear more of the room.

There are reasons people have cut records since the '70s with a 57 against the grille - to prevent bleed, or isolate the tone, or for a million other reasons. It may be standard practice, but it's not the only way.

Yes, the miracle of microphone placement! But I digress. The point is, respect the room. It matters.

Put an amp on the floor, you've got half space reinforcement of the bass; Bass is omnidirectional and bounces to your ears louder when it hits the floor. Put it against a wall on the floor, and you've reinforced the bass even more, because now you have quarter space reinforcement, both a wall and the floor reflecting the bass. In a corner, there's still more bass - eighth space reinforcement.

"My amp sounds muddy."

Maybe it's not the amp. Maybe it's where you put the amp.

"My amp is too harsh/bright." Maybe you should consider playing it in a space with carpeting and furniture, instead of an unfinished basement, and see what it sounds like there.

"I'm just not bonding with it."

Have you tried it with a different type of cab or speaker? Have you experimented with the tone controls, and by that I mean, really learned what they do?

"It's fizzy."

If all you're doing is cranking the preamp, and the power amp is hardly putting out any volume, no wonder. Preamp tubes create a fizzier kind of distortion.

This isn't to say you shouldn't ditch your amp and go with the Next Shiny Object! That's fun, too. But it's a shame to abandon an amp that might be perfectly great with a different placement in the room.

And - this is a whole universe unto itself - try setting it up with some good NOS tubes, instead of the current junk masquerading as the revered brand names of yesteryear. Some enterprising dudes bought old brand names like Mullard and Tung-Sol, and are now importing junk in boxes that look like the old boxes, and with labels that look like the old labels, to make folks think, "Wow, I just retubed my Marshall with Mullards [insert name of great tube of yesteryear that's been renamed, not cloned, here]."

Well no, you retubed your Marshall with Russian (I think they're New Sensor) tubes that someone stuck the old label on. Actual, sought-after, Mullards were made in England and Europe, depending on the factory that built them (some were made by Philips; the old tube companies often made tubes for each other), and production of those tubes stopped by 1980. The new ones ain't the same. The real ones were made better, and sound different. [End of tube rant]

"Is there a point to this post, Les?"

"Yes. See what your amp can do, and you just might like it more."
 
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CORRECTION CORRECTION CORRECTION

Oh crap, I can't edit the post ("Server Error") and I accidentally said, "Amps with passive volume controls have a flat response with the tone controls set all the way up." That's a typo. I meant to say, "amps with passive TONE controls have a flat response with the tone controls all the way up" !!!

I apologize in advance.

"Like anyone's going to bother to fly-speck the novella you just wrote."

"Someone will. There's always someone who will tell you your sh!t stinks!"
 
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(Sets all Mesa MkIV knobs to noon, instantly sh!t’s themselves, goes deaf, and dies)

Worse things can happen.

"What could be worse?"

"Could happen to me."

"You mean us, not me."

"No I mean me. I don't care what happens to you."

"Since I'm you, if something happens to me, it would happen to you as well."

"It would be worth it just to get rid of you."
 
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Good description, Les!

I find I am still using the method where I turn each tone knob to see where it starts to do something noticeable. It put me into some really weird knob positions with my Bogner Ecstasy 3534, but it sounds great that way.

Because tone knobs tend to be interactive, I run through the tone knob settings a few times to find that spot. Changing gain completely changed that spot as well.

However you tune your amp, I have found that spending hours turning the knobs is SO worth it. Having a tone in mind helps, and then you can hear what your amp WANTS to sound like as you try to get it to sound like that tone in your head.

I’ve also A/B’d a bunch of amps to see if I can get one to sound like another. It’s really helped me to understand what the tone knobs actually do, amp by amp.

As for presence, it controls power stage feedback. The lower you set it, the more you reduce the power amp feedback and hear the open-loop tone and dynamics of the power stage. The higher you turn it, the more accurately the power stage follows the preamp signal, giving you the tone of the preamp circuit uncolored.
 
Great info, Les! I cringe a little every time I see the “I didn’t bond with it” statement. I normally autocorrect that in my mind to read “I didn’t spend enough time with it to feel comfortable or learn how to make it do what I want” or (gasp) “let it take me somewhere I haven’t walked a million times already.”

I’ve come to really appreciate two amps I have (both Boogies, a Road King II and a Nomad 55) that have knobs with very difficult to read markings... and no numbers at all. Try as I might, my mind tells me “treble should be about here, mids there, and bass about here” but these amps thwart that in all but direct light. I just turn them until it sounds good and I am very often surprised at what that turns out to be when I check it. I believe that what we think is the right setting often overrules our ears, leading to “I don’t bond with this amp” much more often than a true lack of suitability.

You make several good points and, while it’s useful to understand the mechanics creating the sound, tube circuit expertise surely isn’t required to make use of your suggestions. You don’t need a physics degree to understand what happens when you press down on your car’s brake pedal for it to work. But it is worthwhile knowing that exact position of the brake pedal doesn’t work the same in every car, or even in the same car in every environment. You should be prepared to use the whole range, as necessary, to get the desired result.

On forum post editing: I discovered recently, thanks to a post here, that it would not let me edit if I left the smiley emoji in. Had to remove it, edit, put it back. Just a coding gremlin, methinks.
 
Thank you Les. - great information.
I'm often confused about amps and how they work, terminology, etc
This is helpful!
 
Great post.

Getting to know some high quality tube amps in the last few years has really opened some doors for me, to experiencing better tones. The first thing I've noticed, is that higher quality amps may not immediately sound much better than cheaper amps the moment you turn them on, but they have better tones in them if you're willing to go looking. Cheaper amps are set up to be kind of "idiot proof," and they can sound pretty good, but maybe not great.

Not only with the tone stack, but also with volume and gain controls, I get the most out of my amps mostly by trimming back the excess of whatever parameter needs work, not by trying to boost - because, yes, that's what lots of amp controls do, they remove, not add, so why not use them to do what they're best at? Same with preamp gain and master volume - there's more harmonic richness and sweetness to be found in an amp by running it just before you're getting too much. And I'm not talking about just cranking preamp gain to make something distorted. For a great clean tone, for example, I like to find the tipping point both for the preamp and MV where they're just a little too crunchy, then trim back just under the threshold of where I want to be, the preamp signal is robust and pushing into the power section (or maybe the PI, but that's a whole 'nother thread) at a point where the whole thing is starting to produce nice harmonics rather than just a cold, flat, dead-clean sound made by keeping everything on the amp way under the threshold. A totally dimed amp can be pretty mushy, but at just the right spot on a MV, the mids are still "open," the tone is smoother than just pushing a bunch of buzzy preamp gain through a choked down power section.

One thing specifically about PRS amps, I've noticed they have a strong "tipping point" on the treble control, usually around 2-3:00, where they really open up, and then beyond that actually kind of take over the sound and diminish the effectiveness of the mid and bass controls. Especially when using V30's, I find it very critical to know exactly where that spot is, the amps sound best approaching that tipping point. Other speakers with more perceived volume in the treble control frequency range, may want to remove more with the treble control, but lots of PRS amps are often paired with V30's. I think it has to do with the way the treble control is wired in the circuit, vs the mid and bass controls, on the classic TMB tone stack that many amps use.

And then there's the rabbit hole of speakers. I've got some truly great amps here like the Custom 50 and Sweet 16 that I don't think I would have nearly the appreciation for, heck I might not even still have them at all anymore, had I not really put the time in finding speakers that compliment them. Thank goodness for IR's making that a much more accessible job.
 
As for presence, it controls power stage feedback. The lower you set it, the more you reduce the power amp feedback and hear the open-loop tone and dynamics of the power stage. The higher you turn it, the more accurately the power stage follows the preamp signal, giving you the tone of the preamp circuit uncolored.

Thanks! I knew someone smarter than me would come along and explain it!
 
Great info/recommendations, Les.

The best I ever came up with was, "Close your eyes or look away from the knob when you're turning it;" meaning, tune the amp with your ears, and don't be concerned about where the pointer ends up. (Most of us have "central tendency," and might convince that cranking a dial above 3:00 or below 9:00 is way too much or little.)

With this method, you can actually hear, for instance, that point where the Bass comes into play as you turn it up. Or you can sense when the right amount of Treble has been cut enough to take the edge off. Should you set the Treble at 2:00? Or 2:30? Who knows--use your ears and you'll find out! After all, the SOUND is what matters, not where the knobbies are pointing.
 
]I cringe a little every time I see the “I didn’t bond with it” statement. I normally autocorrect that in my mind to read “I didn’t spend enough time with it to feel comfortable or learn how to make it do what I want” or (gasp) “let it take me somewhere I haven’t walked a million times already.”

Are we somehow unacknowledged brothers? Because I cringe for exactly the same reasons!

I should add to this that, in general we like the same amps, the same tubes, same guitars...

So many folks buy amps today AFTER hearing online demos, and still say they didn't bond with the tone? I mean...come on! Did the universe induce a consciousness warp while the rest of us were in the bathroom or something?

If you liked the demo, chances are the amp will do the same thing for you, and you simply need to mess with it just a little bit! And if you don't love the demo, why pay good money for the amp? Maybe I'm missing something.

The minute I heard the HXDA and DG 30, not to mention my Mesa amps or my former Bad Cats, Two-Rocks, and others, I knew what I wanted, and I got exactly the tone I paid for. How does that not happen for everyone? It's not like a demo for every amp ever made isn't somewhere on the internet!

The other perceptive point you make, Rick, is that people say that they want an amp that doesn't cover the territory the amps they already have cover, but then they're disappointed when the amp (evidently) doesn't sound like their other amps! Geez. Hello. It's not supposed to!

I could go on and on. I'm sure you could, too. But yes to what you said.
 
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Great info/recommendations, Les.

The best I ever came up with was, "Close your eyes or look away from the knob when you're turning it;" meaning, tune the amp with your ears, and don't be concerned about where the pointer ends up. (Most of us have "central tendency," and might convince that cranking a dial above 3:00 or below 9:00 is way too much or little.)

With this method, you can actually hear, for instance, that point where the Bass comes into play as you turn it up. Or you can sense when the right amount of Treble has been cut enough to take the edge off. Should you set the Treble at 2:00? Or 2:30? Who knows--use your ears and you'll find out! After all, the SOUND is what matters, not where the knobbies are pointing.


Yes!

I think you just wanted to "up" your longest post ever! :p

Great info, Les. Thanks for posting!

Oh I've had some rants in the past...;)
 
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