*RESOLVED* Vintage PRS CE24 - Temporary Dead Spot Solution

[Justme_223]

Hello everyone, and I am incredibly sorry for the necro bump. However, I feel like I needed to make this post due to some pretty important personal experiences with this guitar.

In fact, it goes hand in hand with the controversial tuner button change that PRS implemented within the past year or so.

So to keep things simple. I 100% agree that tuner buttons make a tone difference. Reason? I was able to mitigate the dead spot I spoke about in my first post....

The dead spot I have on my CE24 is still technically there, but it's nowhere near as bad as it was before. In fact, it moved from a very short note on the 12th fret g string, to the 13th fret with a much longer sustain (still not as much as other notes, but not enough to bother me). Now, how did I fix it? I changed the original metal tuner buttons to lighter and smaller tuner buttons. In fact, I fixed this problem not long after my first post. Which means, I learned that the buttons made a difference wayyyy before Paul even said anything (so it's not even a placebo effect). I'm sorry for those that were waiting for an update, but I was so ecstatic that I fixed the problem that I just decided to play, rather than respond to the forum (my bad). Please note that I was no longer playing around with the tire weights or capo like I did in my earlier posts. This is a PERMANENT fix (not a temporary fix like the idea I was toying around with earlier).

It was a painstaking process, but here are the changes I made to try and get rid of the problem, and the results I obtained (please note these were all purchased from Mann's guitar vault, so they are legitimate products):

1) I changed the saddles to newer nickel saddles (PRS brand): no difference to dead spot.

2) I changed the saddles to Graph Tech string savers: no difference to dead spot, and it also changed the tone. I changed it back to the PRS nickel saddles immediately.

3) I changed the screws for the bridge, saddles, etc. to brass: no difference to dead spot. Kept these on since they were cleaner and more updated hardware. Plus they look cool.

4) I changed the original PRS wing tip tuners to Schaller M6's (with the shared screw): I noticed a slight difference to the dead spot, but not significant enough to show any big results. However, this led me to the next point....

5) I changed the metal tuner buttons to the small Schaller M6 Tuner buttons: dead spot moved from the 12th fret to the 13th fret, and is significantly less noticeable (sustains much longer than before).

Overall I'm happy with the result. Hopefully this helps the rest of you out if you have a bad dead spot you're trying to deal with!

 

[Prs Mods too]

Thanks so much for the update.

Are the original PRS tuners on with the smaller plastic buttons or are you using the M6 tuners?

 

[Justme_223]

Thanks so much for the update.

Are the original PRS tuners on with the smaller plastic buttons or are you using the M6 tuners?

I am using the M6 tuners since they are more modern and similar to newer PRS guitars. I have packed away the wing tuners since they are slightly more finicky and have more moving parts. Link to the tuners below:

Schaller M6 Locking Tuner Set - Chrome

Can be used as direct replacements on most PRS Core guitars with larger style PRS / Schaller M6 Phase I tuners

www.johnmannsguitarvault.com

 

[Prs Mods too]

I am using the M6 tuners since they are more modern and similar to newer PRS guitars. I have packed away the wing tuners since they are slightly more finicky and have more moving parts. Link to the tuners below:

Schaller M6 Locking Tuner Set - Chrome

Can be used as direct replacements on most PRS Core guitars with larger style PRS / Schaller M6 Phase I tuners

www.johnmannsguitarvault.com

Awesome, thanks. Just trying to sort through all of the tiniest variables.

 

[Joe sherman]

I have three PRS 24 fret guitars, and, they all do it. I never noticed it before. I dont remember playing a note that high for long enough to let that happen.

 

[Prs Mods too]

I actually like the dead spots as long as they're not too extreme.

Playing 70s and 80s hard rock/metal the notes turn to a nice controlled feedback in a useable amount of time usually.

 

[Justme_223]

I have three PRS 24 fret guitars, and, they all do it. I never noticed it before. I dont remember playing a note that high for long enough to let that happen.

To tell the truth I found out while I was learning Europa by Santana. One of the notes requires quite a bit of sustain. Unfortunately, that note happened to be on the 12th fret G-String.

 

[Mikegarveyblues]

Dead spots are an absolute pain in the backside, particularly if your playing style requires notes to ring out longer than a couple of seconds!

Sure, it can be a setup issue such as high frets, badly seated frets, badly cut nut, etc…. But sometimes it’s just inherent to that particular guitar.

I’ve had it on a few guitars. Sometimes I can live with it, other times the sustain is too lacking and on notes I use a lot. In that case the guitar is out the door!

My new SE DGT was having the issue on all G notes but I was able to sort it by fine tuning the intonation - which was well out due to a bad D string. But needed fine tuning on most of the strings. However, the biggest improvement came from inserting 3/16 (4.8mm) fish tank air hose into the trem springs to deaden them. I can still use the trem just fine so it’s an easy and reversible (potential) fix.

Thankfully, it seems you have found a solution but hopefully this tip may work for some.

 

[Snake1911]

I have a PRS Santana SE, I put it on the forum because I made a lot of modifications, all with original PRS hardware, I just need to change the bridge, when I bought it, being a Santana fan, I immediately noticed a dead spot, so I did the whole thing To correct it, the only solution I found was to raise the strings quite high, which was quite uncomfortable, and there was some point at which a wolf note sounded, I forgot and played for a long time with that string height, until when I started to improve the guitar, I came across the dead spot and the wolf note again, I already had locking tunners and pearloid buttons, the solution was found in something as simple as slightly tightening one of the screws that hold the bridge to the body, I just tightened it a little and the dead spot disappeared, it still has some notes that last a little less but as the person who made the publication said, it is not something that can be noticed, in fact you have to play one and the other to compare and know which one originally I had that dead spot, I think that each guitar is a world and it may also be that there is more than one solution for the same problem

 

[d^rren]

Dead spots are harmonic nodes. When you do things like change the amount of mass at the end of the neck, you’re slightly shifting the resonant peak up or down.

This is actually why many guitars are built with carbon fibre or graphite rods in the neck. It’s not to make the neck stronger, but to make the neck stiffer. This raises the neck’s resonant frequency, eliminating wolf notes and dead spots, meaning fewer warranty claims for the manufacturer.

Side note: Parker Guitars didn’t have carbon/glass fibre exoskeletons for strength. It was for stiffness. Ken Parker found that making a guitar entirely out of basswood and poplar, the guitar neck was sufficiently strong, and incredibly light and resonant. Actually too resonant. There were wolf tones and dead spots all over the neck, as it resonated strongly with so many harmonic overtones. The exoskeleton stiffened the structure, raising the resonant peak, eliminating dead spots, and improving sustain.

We all love feeling our guitars resonating in our hands, but that resonance is what can rob the strings of their energy. Too much is definitely a bad thing.

 

[Juan Luis Vidal]

My very first post on this forum was related to this issue. I have a wonderful CE 24 with a wolf note on the B string, 12th fret. I tried different suggestions and workarounds you can find on the internet, with little to no success, but some fellow here suggested a Fender Fatfinger and it fixed it. Depending on what I'm gonna play I set it up on the head-stock or remove it...but I have grown to enjoy how it looks on the guitar so now it's there 98% of the time.

 

[Justme_223]

Dead spots are an absolute pain in the backside, particularly if your playing style requires notes to ring out longer than a couple of seconds!

Sure, it can be a setup issue such as high frets, badly seated frets, badly cut nut, etc…. But sometimes it’s just inherent to that particular guitar.

I’ve had it on a few guitars. Sometimes I can live with it, other times the sustain is too lacking and on notes I use a lot. In that case the guitar is out the door!

My new SE DGT was having the issue on all G notes but I was able to sort it by fine tuning the intonation - which was well out due to a bad D string. But needed fine tuning on most of the strings. However, the biggest improvement came from inserting 3/16 (4.8mm) fish tank air hose into the trem springs to deaden them. I can still use the trem just fine so it’s an easy and reversible (potential) fix.

Thankfully, it seems you have found a solution but hopefully this tip may work for some.

I have heard that's a pretty common resolution for dead spots (the hose on the trem springs). I tried that on my guitar as well, but unfortunately it didn't work. Based on what everyone is saying, it seems like dead spots can come from anywhere.

I think it's quite fortunate that yours had a resonance issue dealing with the hardware (in this case the springs). Others (like myself) unfortunately have a dead spot that seems to deal with the wood itself.

 

[Justme_223]

Dead spots are harmonic nodes. When you do things like change the amount of mass at the end of the neck, you’re slightly shifting the resonant peak up or down.

This is actually why many guitars are built with carbon fibre or graphite rods in the neck. It’s not to make the neck stronger, but to make the neck stiffer. This raises the neck’s resonant frequency, eliminating wolf notes and dead spots, meaning fewer warranty claims for the manufacturer.

Side note: Parker Guitars didn’t have carbon/glass fibre exoskeletons for strength. It was for stiffness. Ken Parker found that making a guitar entirely out of basswood and poplar, the guitar neck was sufficiently strong, and incredibly light and resonant. Actually too resonant. There were wolf tones and dead spots all over the neck, as it resonated strongly with so many harmonic overtones. The exoskeleton stiffened the structure, raising the resonant peak, eliminating dead spots, and improving sustain.

We all love feeling our guitars resonating in our hands, but that resonance is what can rob the strings of their energy. Too much is definitely a bad thing.

That's pretty interesting to hear that. I think that based on what I'm seeing it looks like there could be two factors at play.

One is the design of the guitar itself, and the second is the wood. Although it's a cumbersome design, it's an extreme rarity to see a Les Paul with a dead spot. I think the reason why is that it has an extremely stiff neck (not counting the headstock obviously) since its so deep into the body. It attaches at the 15th fret, which means that the body to neck weight ratio is quite high. Then, looking at double cut guitars with necks attaching at a high fret (aka PRS, DC Les Paul's, or 61 Sg's) those guitars always seem to have a dead spot. I think it's because the neck is almost like a flag pole on a windy day..... It resonates and moves so much that its bound to create notes that cancel, and also notes that sustain. It seems to also be more prevalent in 24 fret guitars.

 

[d^rren]

Fender Precision Basses often have a dead spot on the high G around the 6th or 7th fret. It's all to do with scale length and the amount of vibrating mass behind the nut. That's part of the reason why Fender bought the rights to the Fat Finger, because it fixes the problem. (Or rather, it moves the resonant point elsewhere.)

I also discovered a funny thing playing a Telecaster for the first time. You get no open-note 5th fret natural harmonics with the neck pickup. Why? Because the neck pickup is directly under the corresponding harmonic node. Anyone who tells you that neck pickups should be "under the 24th fret harmonic node" doesn't know what they're talking about.

But back to the subject at hand... the Les Paul definitely ends up with a stiffer neck because of the deep attachment point, but it's not due to the body to neck mass ratio. It's simply because the part of the neck that's vibrating free in space is shorter, and therefore resonates at a much higher frequency that puts any harmonic resonance above the range of the vibrating string.