PRS Finish Clouding/ Hazing/ Ghosting. My experiences and thoughts

[Utkarsh]

So I realized there is occasional chatter about this on forums but nary a video out there. After replying to a query on tgp, I thought it would be more efficient to make a video on YouTube for easier access (much like I did with richlite and ebony)

I currently own 4 guitars with what I call Level 0 to Level 3 Ghosting (the level 3 guitar is nicknamed Ghost as well). I have owned some of them for years and known many others so I think I have some idea about the phenomenon.

Would love your thoughts and probably more experienced points of view as well

 

[bodia]

Nicely done. Timely, as well, as there have been a couple of threads recently that brought up the clouding issue.

 

[JasonE]

Sorry, I disagree with some parts of your statements. I have had one PRS that the finish clouded on. I bought it new. It has been stored in it's case in my climate controlled home since I bought it. I would not call that incorrectly stored. It started to develop finish clouding in some of the areas you mentioned. It did continue to get worse over the next year or so. This guitar is a 2012 and had the V12 finish. I contacted PRS about it and they refinished it under warrantee. So it is my experience that it can happen to a guitar that is correctly stored, can definitely continue to get worse and happened with the V12 finish and not just the older poly finish.

I agree it is a moisture trapped under the finish. I can't say if it is between layers of the finish or under all of it down to the wood level. The mystery is really why it takes years to happen. If the wood was properly dried where did the moisture come from? Once the finish dries it is sealed. How can moisture get between layers of a finish after it dries?

 

[Utkarsh]

Sorry, I disagree with some parts of your statements. I have had one PRS that the finish clouded on. I bought it new. It has been stored in it's case in my climate controlled home since I bought it. I would not call that incorrectly stored. It started to develop finish clouding in some of the areas you mentioned. It did continue to get worse over the next year or so. This guitar is a 2012 and had the V12 finish. I contacted PRS about it and they refinished it under warrantee. So it is my experience that it can happen to a guitar that is correctly stored, can definitely continue to get worse and happened with the V12 finish and not just the older poly finish.

I agree it is a moisture trapped under the finish. I can't say if it is between layers of the finish or under all of it down to the wood level. The mystery is really why it takes years to happen. If the wood was properly dried where did the moisture come from? Once the finish dries it is sealed. How can moisture get between layers of a finish after it dries?

Yes if I am not mistaken, you replied to me on TGP as well. The experience is very strange to me and I guess it is quite variable. I haven’t quite been scientifically A B testing, but anecdotally I have found a significant correlation between in case storage (in a humid environment) and clouding. Other than the four guitars in the video, I have the very beginnings of clouding on one of my 3 513 Braz, which wasn’t there when I got it. It started after a four month stint away from home when it was stuck inside a case and my room couldn’t be climate controlled. Since I saw that, I got the guitar out hanging into my climate controlled room and the clouding has stayed exactly where it was for 3 years.
In any case, its always good to get more data and anecdotes

 

[SinSir]

It's about moisture under the topcoat. May get worse. May not. Live with it or refinsh. Discussion as easy as that..

 

[JasonE]

It's about moisture under the topcoat. May get worse. May not. Live with it or refinsh. Discussion as easy as that..

Which should be considered a manufacturing defect, correct?

Any idea why it takes so long to show up?

 

[SinSir]

Which should be considered a manufacturing defect, correct?

Any idea why it takes so long to show up?

Oh I think PRS should cover, definitely to the original owner. When I had a car restoration business we would have covered. It was on us, due to moisture or prep. If we saw blushing during finish, we'd thin, let moisture out, and redo.

Once a guitar changes hands, I think PRS is off the hook, and a reasonable time frame for the original owner is acceptable too.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I always assumed it had something to do with spraying guitars in a swamp.

 

[waswell]

Great video. Thanks for making it !!!!

 

[SinSir]

I always assumed it had something to do with spraying guitars in a swamp.

And I'd say you're right.

 

[Alnus Rubra]

I always assumed it had something to do with spraying guitars in a swamp.

Didn’t F used to spray with a water feature at the back of the booth?

 

[Utkarsh]

It's about moisture under the topcoat. May get worse. May not. Live with it or refinsh. Discussion as easy as that..

Now that is a succinct summary if I ever saw one

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Didn’t F used to spray with a water feature at the back of the booth?

There goes that theory.

 

[Alnus Rubra]

There goes that theory.

I’ll get my coat.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I’ll get my coat.

Why? You coming over?

 

[Alnus Rubra]

Why? You coming over?

Would love to, nothing would be better than catching up with my forum bro’s, playing guitar, getting tacos on them, using the Sergio approved method to clean them and lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[aphantomvaper]

I’ll get my coat.

Don't get moisture under it if it's a top coat 'cos, you know....

 

[Alnus Rubra]

Don't get moisture under it if it's a top coat 'cos, you know....

Then you’ll all start ghosting me?

 

[Tonart]

One of the few grouses I have about my guitars, but a major one at that, since it’s not a simple fix. Will definitely be contacting PRS customer service on this matter soon, for a couple of my guitars. A somewhat “related” issue is also yellowing of the clear finish.

If we don’t contact PRS they won’t know, and I imagine they’d wanna get a handle on the statistics of occurrence as these guys are professionals. The way I see it, it’s a win-win for the owner and PRS.

So best to get in touch with PRS.

 

[Jazzedout]

Other than the four guitars in the video, I have the very beginnings of clouding on one of my 3 513 Braz, which wasn’t there when I got it. It started after a four month stint away from home when it was stuck inside a case and my room couldn’t be climate controlled. Since I saw that, I got the guitar out hanging into my climate controlled room and the clouding has stayed exactly where it was for 3 years.
In any case, its always good to get more data and anecdotes

Have seen it on 2 other Braz 513s. One was mint 2005, case queen, always taken good care of; the gold harware looked untouched without any tarnishing. The other one from 2006 was used a lot, but in a controlled professional studio environment, but still with no visible dents etc so that moisture could get under the finish after it left the factory.