PRS 594 2016 Finish Fogging....Why

[guitarbods]

I have many PRSs. Just bought a used PRS 594 and on isolated areas, mostly 1/16" dots in 1" area on lower edge of guitar is fogging. Its beneath the finish. I've seen some PRS guitars for sale and they're fogged almost over the entire body. I called the PRS Tech Center. They said a bump of the guitar can cause the poly to separate from the finish. Great playing ;guitar. Actually fantastic playing and sounding guitar. I didn't see this until after I brought it home. I can return it. Tech Center says they doubt that it will get worse. Also one isolated small spot on the lower middle edge and 2 on neck near neck joint. You can't feel it. It can only be seen.

Tech center said they can refinish guitar for 1500. ON another forum a person who bought one new sent their fogging guitar back for a free refin. It has been there 6 months and tech center has not even touched it.

So, I am a PRS guy. So why don't we hear more about this from the company? Paul talks about his fantastic refined poly finish but silence when it comes to this. It is not an isolated problem according to some very reputable guitar stores -- both chain and boutique shops. I guess I'm really undecided about what to do...bring it back or keep it.

In one of Paul's videos he takes a bunch of nuts and drops each on the table and some thump and some ring. On those who thump..he says and I'm paraphrasing: 'now would you want this on your guitar'. Well Paul...I don't want a faulty foggy finish on a guitar barely played on my guitar either.

You say you check QA/QC every Friday of new guitars coming out. Why do you not welcome these guitars with hazing finishes so that you can do a post mortem in order to see how your guitars do once they leave the factory. And why don't you take them back and exchange them for your customers. We are a very select and proud group to know that we can buy one of the finest production guitar in the US ever!

I'd like to hear comments. I'd like to hear some non-salesman talk about this from Paul.

 

[Rockmark]

First off that would make me nuts. It's a tough one. At least you're not stuck and if you are not absolutely in love w it I'd return it for a couple reasons. You can easily replace it for a perfect one and it will be a long forgotten memory in a week. No one can predict if the problem may spread. It was sold used and there is no warrantee on these. Spending 1500 on a refin is good money after bad and a harder resale if you want to sell it down the line.

As far as PRS QC, I would bet that if the store you got it from sent it to them they would do an autopsy. That's if they are a PRS dealer of course. Maybe Shawn could chime in. Regardless, on a used guitar who knows what it went through w a prior owner. Heat, cold exposure, bumping and a myriad of possible other mishaps could happen in someone's home environment. That's just the hazard and what we accept as part of not buying new in exchange for a discounted price. I know if it was purchased new PRS would do whatever it takes to make it right at no cost. They have even provided me w prepaid (not cheap from Ca.) UPS shipping labels for repair on new ones after a conversation w them. If it's a manufacturing fopa I'd bet my life they will make it right. I hope it works out for the best for you whatever you decide.

 

[guitarbods]

Thank you, I appreciate your comments

 

[László]

No finish is perfect; it’s always a tradeoff between thickness, how it wears, ease of application, how it affects the tone, etc.

The problem here is that the instrument has an unknown provenance. You can’t and don’t know what happened to it previously.

PRS honors the warranty of finishes that have issues free of charge - that’s assuming you buy new and have a warranty, and they’re responsible to you by virtue of that warranty.

But are you really in a position to make a legit first post trying to hold them accountable when you bought used and don’t know what happened? Especially since you can return the guitar to the place you bought it?

It was a rhetorical question, actually. The answer’s pretty obvious.

 

[guitarbods]

I appreciate your reply .I omitTed part of my PRS history. I've had five .I'm 68 don't gig store in cases and gradually selling them off .So my nwe ones were in a newish stable environment .My PRS artist 2008 singlecut hazed after 2 years. Warranty was over So there is a problem with all or some of there poly applications . My point is .they know the have a problem but they keep it quiet

Alan

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I appreciate your reply .I omitTed part of my PRS history. I've had five .I'm 68 don't gig store in cases and gradually selling them off .So my nwe ones were in a newish stable environment .My PRS artist 2008 singlecut hazed after 2 years. Warranty was over So there is a problem with all or some of there poly applications . My point is .they know the have a problem but they keep it quiet

Alan

You say it like there’s some sort of conspiracy... What’re they supposed to do?

Some of their guitars had issues of the poly sheeting, and if you happened to live in a humid climate, it could make it worse and you’d get clouding. Sure, it’s a bummer but, are they supposed to refinish all of them? Are they supposed to disclose that in their new ad type, or maybe make a week long apology on Facebook and Instagram about it?

 

[Rider1260]

There are many cases ( including me ) where PRS has gone way beyond there warranty and fixed finish issues !!!
In my case I sent mine in for evaluation ( I paid shipping ) and my guitar was fixed free of charge, I didn't expect it they just did.
of the 30 PRS I have had new and used it is the only issue I have ever had. It is possible that PTC has had to get tighter on there out of warranty coverage.
If it really bothers you then return it , let the dealer deal with it.
If you love the guitar consider have a local tech do a spot refinish , I did this with a DGT that came to me beat up ( Not PRS fault ) and it came out great !!!

 

[flux]

I guess I'm really undecided about what to do...bring it back or keep it.

If you're unhappy with the instrument, return it. All 594s play and sound nice, you can find yourself a suitable replacement and set up to your preference.

Humid climates always pose more challenges for finish preservation, regardless of brand or price point.

 

[guitarbods]

I appreciate your reply .I omitTed part of my PRS history. I've had five .I'm 68 don't gig store in cases and gradually selling them off .So my nwe ones were in a newish stable environment .My PRS artist 2008 singlecut hazed after 2 years. Warranty was over So there is a problem with all or some of there poly applications . My point is .they know the have a problem but they keep it quiet

Alan

You say it like there’s some sort of conspiracy... What’re they supposed to do?

Some of their guitars had issues of the poly sheeting, and if you happened to live in a humid climate, it could make it worse and you’d get clouding. Sure, it’s a bummer but, are they supposed to refinish all of them? Are they supposed to disclose that in their new ad type, or maybe make a week long apology on Facebook and Instagram about it?

This is starting to generate theatrically cynical posts. I'm glad that PRS exists. I love their guitars and I enjoy others as well. When you buy a Martin or even an Anderson included in the case candy is a "care and feeding of your guitar" It talks about adjustments, it addresses cold and humidity swings and effect on your guitar, it addresses do's and don'ts.

Paul says on an interview on you tube that PRS is making the best guitars ever and in many or most ways that is true. We all benefit from that. But I don't care if they can't or don't fix the clouding just provide material on how to prevent it.

By the way, you seem to have a lot of PRSs.....I bought #11 yes #11 from Paul in my younger gigging days. A white 24 fret with a small chip. It's under my sister's bed in another state in a travel case.

 

[guitarbods]

I wanted to add:

That in another post from a PRS'r....he was told by the Tech Center that the clouding cannot be fixed once it occurs. It effects the stain and the guitar must be taken down to the bare wood. Just wanted to pass that along.

 

[guitarbods]

If you're unhappy with the instrument, return it. All 594s play and sound nice, you can find yourself a suitable replacement and set up to your preference.

Humid climates always pose me challenges for finish preservation, regardless of brand or price point.

Appreciate your response. Yes, it will be going back this week. I need to watch my money much closer now then I did when I was not retired. So I would need to find a used one. I am very hesitant buying from an individual and not a store. A used 594 with 58/15 pups is about 2800 to 2900. I'm thinking of going to another brand. I want a humbucker guitar. I am thinking of a Gibson Traditional ...about 2.3k. I've got and had a couple LPs and you do have to find a good tech to get them right. Its that dang "G" string. Comments

 

[HANGAR18]

Spending 1500 on a refin is good money after bad and a harder resale if you want to sell it down the line.

A refinish will only (possibly) devalue a PRS guitar if it is done by anyone other than the factory. A factory refinish is a fantastic option that *may* even add value. $1500.00 has half the price I was once quoted for a refinish. No manufacturer will do a refinish for free unless they believe they are 100% at fault and decide on their own to make it right. imho, ymmv.

 

[Tonart]

I’ve ever sent a guitar back to PRS for refinish to remove cloudiness. I can offer some thoughts:

- Perhaps this hurts more on a PRS because so integral to the premise of a PRS guitar is its beauty. We can understand the disappointment of the owner.

- You do not need to go down to bare wood when refinishing to remove cloudiness. I know, I’ve gone through it. The guitar and grain looks exactly the same; in my case the color became more vivid.

- Refinishing by PRS in such cases will not diminish value as the outer finish is removed completely and sprayed back on from scratch, that is, the same way it was done originally. They do not leave messy blotches of old finish lying around as a record. The guitar simply goes back in time to the latter phase of its original production process.

- If you’re a first owner it will be repaired free of charge, as Les mentions above.

- It’s true that anecdotally speaking we seem to hear that PRS finish is prone to this issue. But we also do not know if other brands are also the same.

- Some say it’s humidity. Yet I am very sure the previous owner of my guitar does not live in the Amazon Forest. Others say the guitar gods are angry with our shamefully weak vibrato. Nobody really knows. To find the exact cause would involve some serious research, I reckon.

Ok none of that was helpful..

 

[OneLegMan]

I own myself one of these foggy PRS (an American PRS Custom 24, 20th anniversary)
I bought it for it's sound - pure beauty! - even if the trouble with the paint was already there: unfortunately nowadays is getting worst.
I always wondered if there's a way to have it fixed from the factory, even if I bought it as used.

 

[guitarbods]

I own myself one of these foggy PRS (an American PRS Custom 24, 20th anniversary)
I bought it for it's sound - pure beauty! - even if the trouble with the paint was already there: unfortunately nowadays is getting worst.
I always wondered if there's a way to have it fixed from the factory, even if I bought it as used.

I'm curious, did it seem to start around a ding or on an edge. And you say it has gotten worse. Is that occuring where there are no dings..essentially under the poly in an area that is otherwise perfect?

 

[Parralax view]

I don't know the answer to PRS possibly ignoring the issue, but I do know it's happened with other large marks that decide it's not their problem. Fender was pretty obvious in the 90's with their chipping neck problem, would not acknowledge it and many necks were ruined or expensively repaired, mine being one of them. I would think that PRS after calm description and knowing what's happening might offer some form of meet in the middle and get something done to it. Then again, the terms of the warranty will be king on this one.

 

[guitarbods]

Yes, I agree with you

 

[László]

.My PRS artist 2008 singlecut hazed after 2 years. Warranty was over

Alan, PRSes have a lifetime warranty to the original owner, not a two year warranty. They will repair the finish if it’s not normal wear and tear.

A few other points: I’ve had around 35-ish PRSes since 1991. None of them hazed. Not saying it’s impossible, but it’s probably a lot more unusual than you might think; after all, folks whose finish didn’t experience hazing aren’t going to post about their finish not hazing on the internet!

While I haven’t experienced clouding, one of my guitars had a little bit of finish flaking near the edge of the fretboard, and PRS fixed it. My dealer took care of the process. The guitar was only gone a few weeks.

Point is, I don’t think they’re “keeping it quiet.” They fix any problem that isn’t normal wear and tear; there’s no drama, and no conspiracy of silence. You’re honestly overplaying your hand.

 

[OneLegMan]

Guitarbods, will be definitely easier to post some pics!
The foggish start from the middle of the top all the way trough the body: it's just like a blur that unfocus the wood grains of the top underneath the shell of the paint.
No scratches, hits, damages... (except one made by myself)

I promise, soon I'll post some pics!

 

[sergiodeblanc]

This is starting to generate theatrically cynical posts. I'm glad that PRS exists. I love their guitars and I enjoy others as well. When you buy a Martin or even an Anderson included in the case candy is a "care and feeding of your guitar" It talks about adjustments, it addresses cold and humidity swings and effect on your guitar, it addresses do's and don'ts.

Paul says on an interview on you tube that PRS is making the best guitars ever and in many or most ways that is true. We all benefit from that. But I don't care if they can't or don't fix the clouding just provide material on how to prevent it.

By the way, you seem to have a lot of PRSs.....I bought #11 yes #11 from Paul in my younger gigging days. A white 24 fret with a small chip. It's under my sister's bed in another state in a travel case.

Forgive me, I’m a Gen Xer so my default setting is theatrically cynical.

Yeah, I’m fortunate enough to own some PRS, and in that pile of guitars are examples of each “era” of their finishes.

Now not every guitar shows signs of the common issues with the finishes but, I do have examples of each. From cloudiness in in poly, nitro that fell off necks, V12 delaminating and popping, etc. etc.. Some were bought that way and others I’ve had the pleasure to watch unfold over the years when bought new, so I’m not denying the existence or anything, and I feel your disappointment.

However, I find the notion that they’re trying to hide or bury the issue kinda humorous. They address the issue with each new finishing technique and paint/clear compound they adopt. If they didn’t feel there were issues... they’d just keep using the same sh!t, right?

Other guitar companies have had the same issue too... the term “Hameritis” is basically the same phenomenon; the clear coat pops and/or lifts, looks cloudy, and is a bummer bowl. Maybe it’s from an impact, maybe it has something to do with environmental issues when and where the stuff was sprayed, probably both...dunno.

Basically, the MI manufacturers are stuck with adapting or using stuff that’s really made for the automotive industry, so until some scientists over at DuPont take an interest in why their vegan daughter’s guitar finish is cloudy... I kinda have to give guitar makers a little bit of a break. But that’s just me, personally.