Paul's stoptail

Discussion in 'Electric Instruments' started by vchizzle, Aug 4, 2015.

  1. Boogie

    Boogie Zombie Two, DFZ

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    In the mid '80s, Gibson was fitting brass nuts on a few models from the factory...the ES-347 in particular and maybe the LP Custom. But the 347 also had these nylon-like bridge saddle inserts that would have countered any advantage the nut would have contributed. I never understood their 'innovation'.
     
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  2. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

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    Maybe because different luthiers have different ideas. I've yet to see everyone doing the very same thing in my five decades of playing.
     
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  3. helmi

    helmi single & satin

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    hello les. I ,meant that statement as sarcasim. to me, if brass inserts make that much of a difference, wouldn't people be using them on the other parts that have contact with the strings?
     
  4. kbprs

    kbprs New Member

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    Well, everything effects everything. The logical conclusion of "make the entire guitar out of brass" makes it clear that it's a "how much" question, not "as much as possible". ;-)
     
  5. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

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    As far as I know, the standard PRS nut is some sort of plastic material infused with brass, so there's already brass there. And the tuning pegs are brass. The bridge inserts on my McCarty are brass, and the bridge saddles on both my CU24 and McCarty Singlecut are brass also.

    So...how much brass do you want?

    I got the sarcasm, but there was also a legit question there, so I gave my for real opinion, you see so many different ideas in guitar-land, and always have. Even guitars that look alike on the outside will have different bracing, different neck attachment techniques, different pickups, different hardware...the list goes on and on!

    I think the brass inserts make a little difference, based on my limited experience with the one I have with brass inserts. I've had probably 20 stoptail PRS guitars, and I do think this one's maybe the most even sounding up and down the neck. It also has the least of what I call "plinky" tone or overly bright harmonics, something I have experienced with the older bridge from time to time in the past.

    Is it a huge difference? Hell no. I think of a lot of these little touches as very small, incremental improvements that add up to better tone overall.
     
    #25 LSchefman, Oct 6, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2015
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  6. John Mann

    John Mann olslowhand
    Authorized PRS Dealer

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    PRS is doing just that!. The nuts are impregnated with brass. On PS guitars Paul is now producing a brass/bronze alloy stoptail and intonatable bridge.
    I am am sure I will be producing stoptails in various alloys in the foreseeable future.

    Keep this in mind... no material is "better" than another... they just sound different.
     
  7. tdarian

    tdarian Searching for the sound

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  8. Andrew Paul

    Andrew Paul The cat's meow

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    I remember those nylon bridge saddles. Not just Gibson but ovation Deacon also had a nylon bridge saddles not the deluxe model that had brass ones.
     
  9. Andrew Paul

    Andrew Paul The cat's meow

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    For those who may not know what we’re talking about here see photo below brass inserts in stoptail bridge.
    [​IMG]
     
  10. grausch

    grausch New Member

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    I replaced the bridge on my Bernie with the bell brass stoptail from ABM. I can say that it weighs a lot more and that the bridge sits much better in the studs, i.e. tighter fitting and thus less lean to the bridge. The studs and the bushings are both made of bell brass. However, in my case, everything has been chromed so there is no direct brass contact with the bridge.

    In terms of sound, it is tough to say how it compares to the stock PRS SE bridge. I used the supplied imperial studs and needed to drill the body a little as the bushings are longer and this may change the sound somewhat. I do feel that I may have a little bit more low end and sustain, but can’t be 100% certain.
     
  11. Fullmoon 1971

    Fullmoon 1971 New Member

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    Like @grausch I also have the ABM Bell-Brass wraparound.
    [​IMG]

    There does seem to be a little more low end and certainly sustains better, the only downside I found is that the ABM sits higher off the body than either the SE or a core wraparound tailpiece
     
  12. Ironwolf

    Ironwolf I'm a Dog! I do Dog Things!

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    many of us find the John Mann intonantable 2300 to be a big improvement over the one piece.
    I personally changed back and forth 2 different times to confirm what I was hearing and playing and feeling.
    The one piece bridge has a more slurry type of sound with barre chords. I found that the vibrations travel through the bridge and cause the other strings to vibrate in sympathy which causes that slurry effect. The 2300 isolates the strings much like in Les Paul very good string clarity. I think that's what also makes them sustain longer not canceling each other out.
    the 2300 gives fantastic beautiful string to string clarity the harmonic content super complementary.
    In addition I find the 2300 gives improved sustain,
    I automatically switch out the single piece aluminum tail for me to the 2300 even on a $6000 guitar. just my opinion.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. ]-[@n$0Ma☩!©

    ]-[@n$0Ma☩!© Fungi Monkey

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    I am looking for a Paul's Guitar bridge. If you want to sell the one you took off, please shoot me a PM.
     
  14. Tonart

    Tonart Tone of the Art......or is that backwards?

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    Wow, what a guitar!!
     
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  15. Bluesverb

    Bluesverb Currently in a long term relationship with myself!

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    There are a few production stories that involve meeting deadlines that are now marketed into gospel as a tone quest enhancement. The tuners with no chrome is one one of them. The Santana no backplate/route, is another.

    If Brass is "all that", it follows that we should have a Brass nut. The nut defines the tone at the head stock, not the chrome on a tuning peg.

    I would make a bet that the cheaper Klusons on the 594's are now used to offset the cost of the Nitro finish/process.

    Remember, they are are manufacturing company and economies of scale come into play as any other manufacturer.

    A lot of what PRS has done is Lean Engineering. Taking cost out of a product, and if it is a noticeable change, make a good marketing strategy out of it. When they took the chrome off the tuner pegs, it wasn't for tone. Chroming metal parts isn't exactly cheap. But if you believe that you can here the difference, then you will.
    Vintage Klusons are cheap tuners. The "tweaked tuners" were silly IMHO as the shaft is still connected to the button, and therefore the whole tuner still vibrates.

    I own around 40 PRS guitars, 3 PRS amps, and 5 PRS Cabs.
    I am so tired of people stating that Paul said this or said that. "Paul said it and therefore it must be true".
    If you can take cost out of a product, and make it better, than all the better.
    However, they have an active cost cutting program to be sure, as well as they should.
    I am now at a point in my life that I just don't want to pay $4000ish for a 10 top 594.
    I have a SC-245 and an SC-58 (Artist Package), and I love them. Not to mention a HB DC and an HB singlecut.
    NOW, I have to run out and get new ones???? Wow.......

    The magic is always in your fingers. Not in a tweaked tuner with plastic this or that or reduced metal, etc....
     
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  16. Shawn@PRS

    Staff Member Moderator

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    They're now available for purchase.

    Machined PRS Stoptail, Brass Inserts
    Part# 101686:001:001:
    UPC: 825362404583
    MAP:$199.00
     
  17. Andrew Paul

    Andrew Paul The cat's meow

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    I ordered one to try on my Santana PS (stoptail Santana)
     
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  18. ]-[@n$0Ma☩!©

    ]-[@n$0Ma☩!© Fungi Monkey

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    [email protected] likes this.
  19. bodia

    bodia Authorities said.....best leave it.....unsolved

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    I'm going to order one for the DC-22!

    [​IMG]
     
  20. bodia

    bodia Authorities said.....best leave it.....unsolved

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    How do we order?
     

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