Paul's stoptail

The below statements are what was told to me by an ex PRS employee that is a friend of mine. True? You decide:

1) The story behind the Santana back plate is that Paul was up against a deadline building a Santana back in the day. He didn't have time to finish the tremolo cavity so he quickly rounded over the edges and sent it off to paint.THAT is how it came to be. However, since Santana was a Hendrix fan, and Hendrix took off the back plate to get at the springs (VanHalen as well), then that was told to everyone.
2) A shipment of tuners/pegs had no chrome and was used to build a NAMM guitar. When Paul was asked why there was no chrome, he stated for "tone" reasons.

Either way, people believe what they want to believe.

BTW - I never actually heard or played a 57-59 PAF and I am 51. I really couldn't tell you if any pickup is a PAF sounding pickup or not. Therefore, when people throw the PAF acronym around, I just shake my head. Besides, all PAF pickups are not the same, or are they???? LOL

The reason why a 59 Les Paul Standard is so hallowed is that that was the first year of that configuration since the Les Paul inception. There were approximately less than 1500 - 2000 of that particular configuration of neck/frets/pickups/bridge/wood, etc.. until the 1960's neck came to be and by then the SG was the new "Les Paul" for most of the 1960's. Therefore, if you wanted to get a suped up Les Paul for Rock, in the 1960's, the 1959-1960 year (bleed over production) was it. THAT is how the legend was born.

That said, EVH took a body that was going to be thrown out, put a Fender Tremolo on it, a sort of Gibson "broken" pickup/wiring that he fixed up, cut up a pick guard, and stuck an aftermarket strat type neck on it. He then made history.
 
Bluesverb said:
The below statements are what was told to me by an ex PRS employee that is a friend of mine. True? You decide:

1) The story behind the Santana back plate is that Paul was up against a deadline building a Santana back in the day. He didn't have time to finish the tremolo cavity so he quickly rounded over the edges and sent it off to paint.THAT is how it came to be. However, since Santana was a Hendrix fan, and Hendrix took off the back plate to get at the springs (VanHalen as well), then that was told to everyone.
2) A shipment of tuners/pegs had no chrome and was used to build a NAMM guitar. When Paul was asked why there was no chrome, he stated for "tone" reasons.
Click to expand...

I know for a fact that the story about the tuners is not true. Back in the early inception of unplated tuner shafts, we were using sand paper to remove the plating until our supply would agree to make the tuners without plating on the shaft. Anyone here have those early unplated shaft tuners on their guitar? The brass is pretty rough due to the sanding process.
 
Bluesverb said:
The below statements are what was told to me by an ex PRS employee that is a friend of mine. True? You decide:

1) The story behind the Santana back plate is that Paul was up against a deadline building a Santana back in the day. He didn't have time to finish the tremolo cavity so he quickly rounded over the edges and sent it off to paint.THAT is how it came to be. However, since Santana was a Hendrix fan, and Hendrix took off the back plate to get at the springs (VanHalen as well), then that was told to everyone.
2) A shipment of tuners/pegs had no chrome and was used to build a NAMM guitar. When Paul was asked why there was no chrome, he stated for "tone" reasons.

Either way, people believe what they want to believe.

BTW - I never actually heard or played a 57-59 PAF and I am 51. I really couldn't tell you if any pickup is a PAF sounding pickup or not. Therefore, when people throw the PAF acronym around, I just shake my head. Besides, all PAF pickups are not the same, or are they???? LOL

The reason why a 59 Les Paul Standard is so hallowed is that that was the first year of that configuration since the Les Paul inception. There were approximately less than 1500 - 2000 of that particular configuration of neck/frets/pickups/bridge/wood, etc.. until the 1960's neck came to be and by then the SG was the new "Les Paul" for most of the 1960's. Therefore, if you wanted to get a suped up Les Paul for Rock, in the 1960's, the 1959-1960 year (bleed over production) was it. THAT is how the legend was born.

That said, EVH took a body that was going to be thrown out, put a Fender Tremolo on it, a sort of Gibson "broken" pickup/wiring that he fixed up, cut up a pick guard, and stuck an aftermarket strat type neck on it. He then made history.
Click to expand...
I never played a 57 to 59 Les Paul either but I do know I love the PRS 59/09 pups. They have a nice sound with a lot of sweet overtones My personal preference Hunbucker. My favorite pups right now are the 408 TCI I’m playing a lot of clean electric guitar lately and I just love the single coil sound and humbucker tones. The most sweet sounding pops I know.

I think Paul. has a lot of valid points in the way he builds guitars. There sound and playability are second to none. I’m 53 and over the years sold every other make and model for various reasons and play only PRS (electrics). If there was something readily available, better, as consistent build quality and sound quality as a PRS I would own one.

I also don’t think the Paul and the company we go out of their way to put brass wedges in a stoptail if they didn’t think it improved the sound, that is an extra step compared to the way stoptails used to be, I don’t see any economic gain there it’s obviously more expensive. Just my two cents
 
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bodia said:
I'm going to order one for the DC-22!

BSwoXbQ.jpg
Click to expand...

That is such a gorgeous guitar. She deserves some new shoes!;)
 
As far as the tuners here’s a way to prove the point, it’s simple. Pluck your low E , Listen to it, then place your thumb on the Estring between the tuner and nut. Don’t push down so hard that you bend the string..... just placed your thumb on the string between the tuner and the nut and you will hear a difference in sound.

You will lose harmonic frequencies, it doesn’t sound as alive. I bet you if I use a spectrum analyzer looking at the wave forms generated by the Estring you will see loss of harmonic frequency waves when you place your thumb between the nut and the tuner.

Do it several times you’ll hear the difference.
 
Andrew Paul said:
As far as the tuners here’s a way to prove the point, it’s simple. Pluck your low E , Listen to it, then place your thumb on the Estring between the tuner and nut. Don’t push down so hard that you bend the string..... just placed your thumb on the string between the tuner and the nut and you will hear a difference in sound.

You will lose harmonic frequencies, it doesn’t sound as alive. I bet you if I use a spectrum analyzer looking at the wave forms generated by the Estring you will see loss of harmonic frequency waves when you place your thumb between the nut and the tuner.

Do it several times you’ll hear the difference.
Click to expand...

That is your thumb, which is not the same as a few thousands of chrome.
Its all about the marketing. Again, we obsess over the minute details which will not make anyone play any better. I should take off all the chrome off everything metal and I might be the next Eric Johnson? LOL
 
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Bluesverb said:
That is your thumb, which is not the same as a few thousands of chrome.
Its all about the marketing. Again, we obsess over the minute details which will not make anyone play any better. I should take off all the chrome off everything metal and I might be the next Eric Johnson? LOL
Click to expand...
Well....... all the brass in the world won’t make me play like Al Di Meola but I think there’s validity with the design. Let’s a agree to disagree and enjoy our awesome lives, play these awesome guitars and rock on! Cheers! ;)
 
Bluesverb said:
There are a few production stories that involve meeting deadlines that are now marketed into gospel as a tone quest enhancement. The tuners with no chrome is one one of them. The Santana no backplate/route, is another.

If Brass is "all that", it follows that we should have a Brass nut. The nut defines the tone at the head stock, not the chrome on a tuning peg.

I would make a bet that the cheaper Klusons on the 594's are now used to offset the cost of the Nitro finish/process.

Remember, they are are manufacturing company and economies of scale come into play as any other manufacturer.

A lot of what PRS has done is Lean Engineering. Taking cost out of a product, and if it is a noticeable change, make a good marketing strategy out of it. When they took the chrome off the tuner pegs, it wasn't for tone. Chroming metal parts isn't exactly cheap. But if you believe that you can here the difference, then you will.
Vintage Klusons are cheap tuners. The "tweaked tuners" were silly IMHO as the shaft is still connected to the button, and therefore the whole tuner still vibrates.

I own around 40 PRS guitars, 3 PRS amps, and 5 PRS Cabs.
I am so tired of people stating that Paul said this or said that. "Paul said it and therefore it must be true".
If you can take cost out of a product, and make it better, than all the better.
However, they have an active cost cutting program to be sure, as well as they should.
I am now at a point in my life that I just don't want to pay $4000ish for a 10 top 594.
I have a SC-245 and an SC-58 (Artist Package), and I love them. Not to mention a HB DC and an HB singlecut.
NOW, I have to run out and get new ones???? Wow.......

The magic is always in your fingers. Not in a tweaked tuner with plastic this or that or reduced metal, etc....
Click to expand...
————————————————————————————
I love reading posts here on this (and other forums)...
It never ceases to amaze me the vast number of self proclaimed experts there are out the in the internet world.

I really hesitate to take on someone on this forum, but when I read a post that is blatantly wrong, I just can’t help but respond. (Sorry if I offend anyone in advance).

I was there in the beginning... I worked with Paul Smith on Carlos Santana’s first guitar. None of the stories you put forward ever happened. Simply not true!

Lean Engineering happens to be something I know a lot about. I was fortunate to have been mentored by and studied under one of Japan’s for most respected masters of Lean for almost 10 years. Hopefully I gained enough knowledge and experience to be an expert in the field.... Lean is not about simply reducing costs. It is all about improving product quality, process, consistency and reducing non value added costs. Lean never sacrifices quality over cost.

Un-plated tuner shafts:
The cost of producing unplated tuner shafts is higher than simply buying tuners with plated shafts. Anytime you choose to make to make something that is not the standard product, it costs more $$$. Trust me... without getting into the economics of it, it is that simple.

This has been a constant in the history of PRS. Take a look at Paul Smith’s design of everything from jack plates, strap buttons, pickup rings, pickups, bridges, tuners, etc. They are all made to his specs. Why? Paul Smith obliviously feels that each of these components plays an important role in what makes a great guitar. All these custom made parts cost substantially more than generic parts, yet Paul is willing to go down that path. Why? Because he hears the difference... it really is that simple.

BTW... the main reason you don’t see solid brass nuts is weight. Extra headstock weight is a bad thing. It throws the balance of the guitar off... to the point that it would make great guitar uncomfortable to play. Look that the evolution of PRS tuners... they have consistently gotten lighter with each revision. That is no accident.

One last thing... If you currently have your “dream” guitar, than your search is over. “Shut up and play yer guitar!” But if you think Paul Smith isn’t done perfecting the art of guitar design and building... then you might need his next latest and greatest ! Every time I think I’m all done, my friend surprises me yet again
 
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John Mann said:
I love reading posts here on this (and other forums)...
It never ceases to amaze me the vast number of self proclaimed experts there are out the in the internet world.

I really hesitate to take on someone on this forum, but when I read a post that is blatantly wrong, I just can’t help but respond. (Sorry if I offend anyone in advance).

I was there in the beginning... I worked with Paul Smith on Carlos Santana’s first guitar. None of the stories you put forward ever happened. Simply not true!

Lean Engineering happens to be something I know a lot about. I was fortunate to have been mentored by and studied under one of Japan’s for most respected masters of Lean for almost 10 years. Hopefully I gained enough knowledge and experience to be an expert in the field.... Lean is not about simply reducing costs. It is all about improving product quality, process, consistency and reducing non value added costs. Lean never sacrifices quality over cost.

Un-plated tuner shafts:
The cost of producing unplated tuner shafts is higher than simply buying tuners with plated shafts. Anytime you choose to make to make something that is not the standard product, it costs more $$$. Trust me... without getting into the economics of it, it is that simple.

This has been a constant in the history of PRS. Take a look at Paul Smith’s design of everything from jack plates, strap buttons, pickup rings, pickups, bridges, tuners, etc. They are all made to his specs. Why? Paul Smith obliviously feels that each of these components plays an important role in what makes a great guitar. All these custom made parts cost substantially more than generic parts, yet Paul is willing to that that path
Click to expand...

I agree with everything here.

Is there a story behind the strap buttons? I was looking at an old Fender bass and realized the PRS buttons appear to be identical to the bass string hold downs on the headstock.
 
John Mann said:
————————————————————————————
I love reading posts here on this (and other forums)...
It never ceases to amaze me the vast number of self proclaimed experts there are out the in the internet world.

I really hesitate to take on someone on this forum, but when I read a post that is blatantly wrong, I just can’t help but respond. (Sorry if I offend anyone in advance).

I was there in the beginning... I worked with Paul Smith on Carlos Santana’s first guitar. None of the stories you put forward ever happened. Simply not true!

Lean Engineering happens to be something I know a lot about. I was fortunate to have been mentored by and studied under one of Japan’s for most respected masters of Lean for almost 10 years. Hopefully I gained enough knowledge and experience to be an expert in the field.... Lean is not about simply reducing costs. It is all about improving product quality, process, consistency and reducing non value added costs. Lean never sacrifices quality over cost.

Un-plated tuner shafts:
The cost of producing unplated tuner shafts is higher than simply buying tuners with plated shafts. Anytime you choose to make to make something that is not the standard product, it costs more $$$. Trust me... without getting into the economics of it, it is that simple.

This has been a constant in the history of PRS. Take a look at Paul Smith’s design of everything from jack plates, strap buttons, pickup rings, pickups, bridges, tuners, etc. They are all made to his specs. Why? Paul Smith obliviously feels that each of these components plays an important role in what makes a great guitar. All these custom made parts cost substantially more than generic parts, yet Paul is willing to go down that path. Why? Because he hears the difference... it really is that simple.

BTW... the main reason you don’t see solid brass nuts is weight. Extra headstock weight is a bad thing. It throws the balance of the guitar off... to the point that it would make great guitar uncomfortable to play. Look that the evolution of PRS tuners... they have consistently gotten lighter with each revision. That is no accident.

One last thing... If you currently have your “dream” guitar, than your search is over. “Shut up and play yer guitar!” But if you think Paul Smith isn’t done perfecting the art of guitar design and building... then you might need his next latest and greatest ! Every time I think I’m all done, my friend surprises me yet again
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting your reply, well said. It’s a privilege to get perspective from someone who was there. Paul with your help made history creating the best quality consistent guitars ever. Those early guitars changed so much for those who first saw and played PRS guitars when they hit the market in 85. For me it was 1988. Guitars with quality surpassing the Gibson’s, Fenders, and Kramer’s of that time. I think most Forum members here can admit PRS changed their guitar and musical experiences forever. You were a part of that. THANKS!
 
[QUOTE="Bluesverb, post: 530598, member: 2363That said, EVH took a body that was going to be thrown out, put a Fender Tremolo on it, a sort of Gibson "broken" pickup/wiring that he fixed up, cut up a pick guard, and stuck an aftermarket strat type neck on it. He then made history.[/QUOTE]

Eddie’s tone sounded broken to me from the beginning, during that era I was in the Knopfler as king of tone camp.
 
BeerBatteredPhish said:
[QUOTE="Bluesverb, post: 530598, member: 2363That said, EVH took a body that was going to be thrown out, put a Fender Tremolo on it, a sort of Gibson "broken" pickup/wiring that he fixed up, cut up a pick guard, and stuck an aftermarket strat type neck on it. He then made history.
Click to expand...

Eddie’s tone sounded broken to me from the beginning, during that era I was in the Knopfler as king of tone camp.[/QUOTE]

If you watch the Rick Beato video that deconstructs “Runnin’ with the Devil” you realise that there was a lot more to EVH’s guitar tone.

But it’s still “Horses for courses”.
 
Alnus Rubra said:
Eddie’s tone sounded broken to me from the beginning, during that era I was in the Knopfler as king of tone camp.
Click to expand...

If you watch the Rick Beato video that deconstructs “Runnin’ with the Devil” you realise that there was a lot more to EVH’s guitar tone.

But it’s still “Horses for courses”.[/QUOTE]
I’m sure there is more, but it’s fingernails on a chalkboard to my ears...that entire Floyd Rose whammy genre. #differentstrokes
 
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