New member PRS guitar quality issues.

[Guitpicky]

So if everything was going swimmingly well with the MiK SEs, why the switch to Indonesia?
Why fix what ain't broke?

 

[Dirty_Boogie]

It’s a good question; maybe current expectations re: SEs are unrealistic in view of the price point.

At close to $800 now (on average) for an SE, I wouldn't consider these low price point guitars.

 

[Dirty_Boogie]

So if everything was going so swimmingly well with the MiK SEs, why the switch to Indonesia?

My guess is that the cost to manufacture in Korea has been increasing

 

[justjoshin]

At close to $800 now (on average) for an SE, I wouldn't consider these low price point guitars.

No they are not low price guitars, and the new SE Paul's Guitar is listed at $999. If the pricing has gotten too high in these foreign factories, why not increase efforts to get the USA S2 line production increased? The SE & S2 are getting a little too close in price if you ask me.

 

[Guitpicky]

I imagine a scenario with talks between Cort and PRS with Cort claiming they can build SEs to the same specs for less money. Sounds like they couldn't walk the talk, but nobody noticed until they had a few thousand on the shelves already. I honestly can't envision Maryland employees checking every SE that's sold. They'd be sampling and Cort would make sure the samples were cherry picked.

Would that be unrealistic expectations on the part of PRS? Did they jump from a perfectly seaworthy ship to a wreck on the promise of a few more shiny pennies?

If they did then they got what anyone gets when we fall for the lure of something for nothing

 

[László]

At close to $800 now (on average) for an SE, I wouldn't consider these low price point guitars.

At under $500 for the Standard SE, the prices start at 15% of the least expensive Core models, and 50% of the least expensive S2.

Seems kind of bargain-priced to me.

 

[László]

Would that be unrealistic expectations on the part of PRS? Did they jump from a perfectly seaworthy ship to a wreck on the promise of a few more shiny pennies?

A few shiny pennies per widget can be the difference between profitability and disaster.

A well-run business is certainly aware of the importance of every single cent of cost.

Fact is, you want the best, buy the Maryland product. We can argue pennies from now ‘til the end of the universe, but there’s only one way to get the best they make.

 

[Guitpicky]

Capitalism is a one way ride. The trend is to always build as cheaply and charge as much as the market will bear. At some point the market always collapses under its own weight.

The current market is a giant bubble being artificially inflated by disposable income. Disposable income itself is artificially created. It's mere existence depends on disposable people

 

[justjoshin]

A few shiny pennies per widget can be the difference between profitability and disaster.

A well-run business is certainly aware of the importance of every single cent of cost.

Fact is, you want the best, buy the Maryland product. We can argue pennies from now ‘til the end of the universe, but there’s only one way to get the best they make.

I agree and I wanted a Maryland product recently, was really interested in the S2 singlecut. The problem is that I could not find one in a 3 hr. drive from my house in any direction, and very few to be found online at the time. While traveling around looking for one I was able to find almost every flavor of Fender and Gibson available. I ended up with a 2018 Les Paul Traditional because I gave up on finding a S2 singlecut. What I noticed this year is that the stores are flooded with SE's, almost no S2's (only found 2, a CU22 & a CU24), and the cores (i think maybe a dozen that I found around here) are not moving.

 

[László]

What I noticed this year is that the stores are flooded with SE's, almost no S2's (only found 2, a CU22 & a CU24), and the cores (i think maybe a dozen that I found around here) are not moving.

Dealers buy what they buy. I’m sure PRS would prefer to sell them more high end stuff, with better margins.

That problem originates with guitar buyers being unwilling to part with the dough for the good stuff these days.

For some reason I don’t understand, seems folks would rather spend their money on unnecessary items like “food” or “having a roof over their head.”

 

[Guitpicky]

A few shiny pennies per widget can be the difference between profitability and disaster.

A well-run business is certainly aware of the importance of every single cent of cost.

Fact is, you want the best, buy the Maryland product. We can argue pennies from now ‘til the end of the universe, but there’s only one way to get the best they make.

That is exactly the reaction I'd expect from you Les. You're very brain oriented and focused on details. Nothing wrong with that, but there is a reason for the old adage "the devil is in the details". Arguments are only possible when you focus on certain details while ignoring others.

I'm very heart oriented, I tend to fill my empty spaces with concepts and ignore details because I much prefer understanding to knowing. I find the more I focus on details the less aware I am of the overall picture.

Knowing a bunch of facts allows us to appear intelligent and argue in an attempt to prove it. Understanding how facts are born helps you realize their true purpose and that facts are acting as cockblockers to our humanity and genuine communication.

I'm just talking **** anyway since I don't own or plan on buying an SE. We do have one thing in common and that's an appreciation for quality design and craftsmanship and we expect to pay what that's worth. I'd suck farts out of car seats for two years to save up for a core model before I'd ever buy an SE. Not because it's American made, but because I think they're some of the best guitars made anywhere.

Core models are an amazing value when compared to PS, especially with the WL and AP. You get 98.6% of a PS for less than half the price. An SE to a core is like comparing a Honda Civic to a Lamborghini, a core to a PS is more like comparing a Ferrari to a Lamborghini

 

[dkilpatrick]

I agree and I wanted a Maryland product recently, was really interested in the S2 singlecut. The problem is that I could not find one in a 3 hr. drive from my house in any direction, and very few to be found online at the time. While traveling around looking for one I was able to find almost every flavor of Fender and Gibson available. I ended up with a 2018 Les Paul Traditional because I gave up on finding a S2 singlecut. What I noticed this year is that the stores are flooded with SE's, almost no S2's (only found 2, a CU22 & a CU24), and the cores (i think maybe a dozen that I found around here) are not moving.

Pretty much any model you could ever want is available for purchase online from any number of prs’ signature dealers.
If you are worried about purchasing sight unseen, many of them have a decent return policy if the guitar ends up being not really what you wanted.

 

[Guitpicky]

I agree and I wanted a Maryland product recently, was really interested in the S2 singlecut. The problem is that I could not find one in a 3 hr. drive from my house in any direction, and very few to be found online at the time. While traveling around looking for one I was able to find almost every flavor of Fender and Gibson available. I ended up with a 2018 Les Paul Traditional because I gave up on finding a S2 singlecut. What I noticed this year is that the stores are flooded with SE's, almost no S2's (only found 2, a CU22 & a CU24), and the cores (i think maybe a dozen that I found around here) are not moving.

S2s are really solid guitars and highly underrated imo. The other thing is you can find them for really good prices (new) if you shop around. They're pretty consistent and I wouldn't hesitate to order one online. If you find can one at GC there'd be virtually no risk if you have a store nearby

 

[László]

Knowing a bunch of facts allows us to appear intelligent and argue in an attempt to prove it.

I make no claim to either facts or intelligence!

As the old adage goes, if I was smart I’d be rich! I’m neither.

 

[shimmilou]

Just remember Les, no matter where you go, there you are.

 

[Guitpicky]

I make no claim to either facts or intelligence!

As the old adage goes, if I was smart I’d be rich! I’m neither.

Yeah, but you're savvy enough to know what I meant by that. That's why I still like you when our words don't agree

 

[Alnus Rubra]

Dealers buy what they buy. I’m sure PRS would prefer to sell them more high end stuff, with better margins.

That problem originates with guitar buyers being unwilling to part with the dough for the good stuff these days.

For some reason I don’t understand, seems folks would rather spend their money on unnecessary items like “food” or “having a roof over their head.”

Quality over quantity!

 

[Mozzi]

No they are not low price guitars, and the new SE Paul's Guitar is listed at $999. If the pricing has gotten too high in these foreign factories, why not increase efforts to get the USA S2 line production increased? The SE & S2 are getting a little too close in price if you ask me.

The SE line is at the low price end of guitars - for a PRS. Picking the Pauls SE at $999 is like trying to find the most expensive PS guitar as indicative of the price of US made PRS guitars - this the 'premium' SE model but if that's still too much for you, you can buy a SE standard for half that price or maybe a Harley Benton would suit your budget better? The SE Paul is also a fraction of the cost of the Core PRS Pauls Guitar so yes it is extremely LOW PRICED - especially compared to the price of the US made Guitar on which this is based. I don't live in the US so not entirely sure of the US prices, but just price up the Core Pauls Guitar - the latest ones with the TCI pickups - not the 408's - and I think you will be able to buy 4 or more SE versions for the price of a Core which makes this extremely cheap comparably...

 

[Rusty Chops]

If SE’s are meant as entry level, and hoping for brand loyalty, QC is of utmost importance.

I had no problem with the QC on my Korean SE, and the Indonesian SE’s I’ve personally handled were fine QC wise.

But given a choice between an SE Paul’s Guitar, and an S2 satin for the same price, I’ll go for FEEL.

An entry level guy might not feel the difference, but I sure can.

 

[Mozzi]

If SE’s are meant as entry level, and hoping for brand loyalty, QC is of utmost importance.

I had no problem with the QC on my Korean SE, and the Indonesian SE’s I’ve personally handled were fine QC wise.

But given a choice between an SE Paul’s Guitar, and an S2 satin for the same price, I’ll go for FEEL.

An entry level guy might not feel the difference, but I sure can.

I don't disagree - if it has the PRS name on it, it needs to meet a certain standard and if not, it reflects on the entire brand as I said above. However, I do think that certain 'issues' can be overlooked or forgivable - such as marks or particles under the finish as that has no bearing on the function and performance of the guitar. Anything that does affect that should meet a certain standard and you expect EVERY guitar to be checked at Maryland - not the odd one or two in a batch but every one. That is what you are also paying for - otherwise they may as well just cut out that step and send them direct to retailers from factory or better still, from the factory direct to customer and cut out even more 'costs'. If you aren't going to check them in Maryland, that final QC stage before they go out for sail, then you may as well just distribute from factory to cut down on all the costs of transporting and paying staff to 'supposedly' give these a final check and set-up before sending them out!