New member PRS guitar quality issues.

[justjoshin]

I get the car thing and it is like General Motors at one time they had Geo (SE), Buick (S2), Chevrolet (Core), Cadillac (Private stock). This can be found in almost all companies in some form. My original post was not to put down the SE line at all because they have some great products and we have 4 of them (Korean models).
Mozzi, I get what you are saying 100% about a person wanting to spend what they are comfortable with. I am not comfortable with dropping the cash on the core models and I do not like buying used either. I bought 2 guitars this past year that equaled the price of a core PRS, but I have 2 nice guitars instead of 1 . My original point was for a company to not sacrifice their reputation with a lesser product. I think everyone agrees that WMI produced some great SE's over the years and I do not know the reason for bringing in the new factories (to meet demand, lower cost, etc.)?? Personally I would love to see a S2 McCarty, and i think it could be done in the $1500 range by comparing prices of the other S2's. The only reason I tried out a SE CU22 was because I wanted one without a trem, and that isn't available in the S2 line. This is also the reason I an interested in the new SE PG, but skeptical if they are being built in the new factory.

 

[shimmilou]

S2 Vela, no trem.

 

[justjoshin]

S2 Vela, no trem.

True and I looked at it but not to my liking. I like the S2 CU22, but with a stoptail bridge. They make that and I'm all over it.

 

[Mozzi]

I get the car thing and it is like General Motors at one time they had Geo (SE), Buick (S2), Chevrolet (Core), Cadillac (Private stock). This can be found in almost all companies in some form. My original post was not to put down the SE line at all because they have some great products and we have 4 of them (Korean models).
Mozzi, I get what you are saying 100% about a person wanting to spend what they are comfortable with. I am not comfortable with dropping the cash on the core models and I do not like buying used either. I bought 2 guitars this past year that equaled the price of a core PRS, but I have 2 nice guitars instead of 1 . My original point was for a company to not sacrifice their reputation with a lesser product. I think everyone agrees that WMI produced some great SE's over the years and I do not know the reason for bringing in the new factories (to meet demand, lower cost, etc.)?? Personally I would love to see a S2 McCarty, and i think it could be done in the $1500 range by comparing prices of the other S2's. The only reason I tried out a SE CU22 was because I wanted one without a trem, and that isn't available in the S2 line. This is also the reason I an interested in the new SE PG, but skeptical if they are being built in the new factory.

By the same token though, you can't expect a 'Core' quality guitar from an SE price point. There has to be more compromises than just moving the construction to Indonesia or Korea and I am not just referring to the carve of the body and using a thin veneer for the top - even if it has maple underneath. What you don't expect though is that quality to drop off - they set the standards and have to maintain that. There are a LOT of guitars on the market from the overseas factories and under the $1k price point that they are competing with - more so than with the S2 range.

If the quality isn't there on the SE's, then people will not necessarily look at an S2 but look at guitars from other brands in that price point and buy one of those instead. Not only will PRS lose a sale but also some 'reputation'. Paul himself has said that the SE is good enough for gigging musicians and therefore they need to meet that standard and hold up to the rigours of gigging. If the have a mark or two under the finish, I don't consider that an issue as it doesn't affect the guitars playability or performance but if the tone/volume pot does nothing, the tuners move or just touching the trem causes tuning issues, then its not up to the standard of being a gigging guitar.

What would be disappointing would be the factory letting them leave and be sold with major issues. I am not saying they are as I don't know if any of the issues that people are finding are occurring after they leave or are coming into Maryland in that condition. I couldn't care less if a guitar is made in Korea, Indonesia, Viet Nam or China but I do care that if it has Paul Reed Smith on the Headstock that it delivers at least the standard befitting the price point and I am sure that everyone else does too. If you want a 'better' PRS, then move up the price point or look to get a used guitar but you shouldn't have to move up to an S2 just to get a playable functioning PRS. Part of the cost of an SE is to have it checked and set up in Maryland by a PRS employee so I would expect them to check EVERY guitar. If they aren't going to do that, then they may as well send them to retailers direct from factory OR even direct from factory to the purchaser and drop the price significantly. You are paying for it to be checked at PRS so it should meet a certain standard!!

 

[andy474x]

Normally, I wouldn’t be a fan of voicing a problem over a single guitar right on the generously provided PRS forum. But, the OP has tried with his dealer to make it right a couple of times already, AND in some cases maybe the company needs to or wants to hear the feedback, always good to have an ear to the ground when it comes to the customers. This is a company dedicated to making things right, while I’m not a fan of straight up trolling, I think this is something different and maybe justified. Although some will certainly disagree.

I have loved all my Korean SE’s (old school CU22, 25th CU24, Akesson, ZM). In fact the CU24, while not being my personal favorite guitar, gets by far the most use, go figure. All the Korean instruments I’ve played met “the standard” for quality and are certainly acceptable. Some have a little extra magic to them, my Akesson being a prime example.

S2’s I’ve found to consistently have “the magic” much more often. But let’s be honest, it’s not supernatural, it’s better wood, better wood preparation, better finish. They ring deeper and louder, IMO. Now, if you don’t hear that, or just don’t agree, and think an SE is just as preferable, that’s great! You still have an affordable, quality instrument, and are happy with it, no need for things to be more complicated than that. I’m the same way with the step up from S2 to Core, I don’t feel the need to replace my S2’s. They work perfectly and I like what I hear.

I do want a 594, but I allow myself one exception. Can I do that?

I like the vibe of the SE Paul’s guitar a lot, but I’ll be playing one before buying, because there has been an awful lot of chatter about the Cortek stuff. But, then again, isn’t there always lots of talk when something changes? I certainly hope to report that it’s awesome.

 

[justjoshin]

OP, I apologize for steering your thread off the road like this . Back to your question: Are there other models at the shop that you would be interested in, and are any of them the Korean model (go try them out if so)? More than likely a different model will cost more as the standard is at the bottom of the line as cost goes. So it depends on if you are willing to spend more or roll the dice. Good luck!

 

[Guitpicky]

As to your first question, the S2 is the better playing, better sounding guitar, IMHO, and that to me is good value.

As far as Harley Benton goes...Well, the tone demos I’ve heard were positively horrid sounding (and maybe that’s just down to those demos and those individual guitars), so I have to ask, superior in what way(s)?

Timing is everything. I just watched a YT video comparing a Harley Benton to a Gibson LP Standard. When I saw the finish I was like "damn, that's a pretty good finish for a couple hundred bucks". Then they did the tone comparison. If we're grading on a curve I suppose you could say the HB sounded good for $200. In all honesty tho it was pretty bad even with enough modeling to make me sound good on a guitar.

It's not a tangible thing but you can feel it in your hands when a guitar was made by people who have a passion for what they are doing. It all goes back to intention. There's an intentional difference between trying to make a guitar as cheaply as possible and trying to make a high quality instrument. It's a difference you can feel

 

[László]

Then they did the tone comparison.

I felt that way when I heard their Strat demo’d, too. The tone was brittle, had no resonance, and basically was a million miles from what one would expect from a halfway decent Strat copy.

I’m not saying it’s a ripoff; just that it sounds as one would expect for a guitar selling for under $200 — and that absurdly low figure includes the materials, the labor, the shipping all the way from the port of origin to Europe, the duties, and the middleman’s profit!

So you wouldn’t anticipate it being a super-high-quality item, nor would you get one.

There’s nothing wrong with wanting to save money, and some players haven’t got a lot of it (and often parents are trying to save a buck buying a guitar for their kids).

Plus, a lot of folks don’t have much experience with the real deal, or a frame of reference, and therefore have no basis of comparison to know if a guitar sounds all that good or not.

So I get it, there are tons of reasons those guitars will sell.

There’s a world of tonal difference between a PRS import and something like that. The PRS imports sound very good. Not that they’re as magnificent sounding as the Core stuff, but they’re just fine, thank you very much.

But there are also significant differences between SE and Maryland-made guitars. You pay for those differences in every instance, certainly.

 

[Guitpicky]

I'd be willing to bet that my personal annual budget is less than 99% of the people on this forum. I have good taste whether I like it or not and when it comes to my hobbies I like nice toys. I'm used to working with **** and fighting with **** that doesn't work, I kind of want my hobbies to be the exception if I'm going to enjoy them.

The way I afford it is by being frugal and making sacrifices in other areas. I gave up smoking weed for an entire year for my 594. I gave up desserts and processed sugar for 2 years to get my acoustics and banned myself from buying wine for a year for my LP Custom. I also have a friend who's been a private dealer for 25+ years so I'm not paying anywhere close to retail.

When I was a kid my favorite escape was fishing. All I could afford was the cheap Zebco reels and you literally couldn't get thru a hour of fishing without something breaking. That meant a lot of lost fish and tantrums, which wasn't why I was there.

I got a Bass Pro shops catalog from a neighbor and gave up buying candy until I could order a top of the line rod and reel. It was so worth it, if only for the fact that I didn't have to constantly fight my own equipment to enjoy my hobby.

Yeah I could have bought 10 of those cheap Zebco combos for what I paid for a single decent rod and reel, but my hobby would have been more work than fun. I'm pushing 60 and learning guitar with zero prior experience or background in music. It really helps having a guitar that works with me, not against me

 

[dogrocketp]

Sorry, gentlemen, but I feel like I have to weigh in. I’m a senior citizen who has been playing about 55 years. I entered PRS at the SE level after a divorce left me totally broke. The $500 Singlecut was a huge quality step up from my 75 LP Custom. When I started to right myself financially, I got a couple more Se’s And started to mod them to get rid of the obvious faults. Then I got my first core, then my second, ad nauseum. The last 2 I’ve bought and kept have been S2’s. I bought them for the sound, not because my ego needed American guitars. I still have my SE’s and my core, but I’m gigging with the S2’s. There is a difference whether or not some want to admit it. The wood is noticeably better and significantly more resonant than the SE’s. The necks are better than the SE’s, especially the intonation above the octave. There are other things as well......the locking tuners, the nut...the fretwork........it goes on. Why slag the S2’s? I still have 5 exceptional Se’s, But they’ve all been modded up the wazoo. The S2 and core have gotten wooden trem bar tips, and maybe a truss rod cover. That’s it. If a person doesn’t have the budget, buy within your means. If YOU can’t hear or feel the difference, it’s on you. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. We should buy with our ears, not our egos. And screw the self righteous postering. Better sound means a better guitar.

 

[justjoshin]

Sorry, gentlemen, but I feel like I have to weigh in. I’m a senior citizen who has been playing about 55 years. I entered PRS at the SE level after a divorce left me totally broke. The $500 Singlecut was a huge quality step up from my 75 LP Custom. When I started to right myself financially, I got a couple more Se’s And started to mod them to get rid of the obvious faults. Then I got my first core, then my second, ad nauseum. The last 2 I’ve bought and kept have been S2’s. I bought them for the sound, not because my ego needed American guitars. I still have my SE’s and my core, but I’m gigging with the S2’s. There is a difference whether or not some want to admit it. The wood is noticeably better and significantly more resonant than the SE’s. The necks are better than the SE’s, especially the intonation above the octave. There are other things as well......the locking tuners, the nut...the fretwork........it goes on. Why slag the S2’s? I still have 5 exceptional Se’s, But they’ve all been modded up the wazoo. The S2 and core have gotten wooden trem bar tips, and maybe a truss rod cover. That’s it. If a person doesn’t have the budget, buy within your means. If YOU can’t hear or feel the difference, it’s on you. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. We should buy with our ears, not our egos. And screw the self righteous postering. Better sound means a better guitar.

Good post! I have the SE ZM because I am a shinedown fan, a LP traditional because I set a goal for myself, and at some point I may get a core PRS. I can afford whatever I want but Guitar is a hobby for me. Everyone has their own situation to deal with and I understand that. Just play what you want and be happy, guys!

 

[Antmax]

I really like my two Korean SE's from '16 and '18. It's really disappointing to hear that many of the new ones are made in Indonesia. I guess I'm lucky the 2018 SE I wanted had the Floyd since those are still made in Korea.

My only gripe with the SE's is that the fretwire seems softer than I expected. Both have a little more fret wear already which is a bit disappointing when you consider I have 6 guitars and don't play any one exclusively. Do the S2's have more durable frets. I recently refretted my Les Paul with EVO and have a Warmoth Strat with Stainless. Wish PRS offered either one of those options.

 

[justjoshin]

I really like my two Korean SE's from '16 and '18. It's really disappointing to hear that many of the new ones are made in Indonesia. I guess I'm lucky the 2018 SE I wanted had the Floyd since those are still made in Korea.

My only gripe with the SE's is that the fretwire seems softer than I expected. Both have a little more fret wear already which is a bit disappointing when you consider I have 6 guitars and don't play any one exclusively. Do the S2's have more durable frets. I recently refretted my Les Paul with EVO and have a Warmoth Strat with Stainless. Wish PRS offered either one of those options.

I believe I watched a PRS video where they said that the S2 frets were the same as the Core models.

 

[Victek]

The [S2] necks are better than the SE’s, especially the intonation above the octave.

Can you say more about that? I have a couple of SE Custom 24s and what attracted me to them is the amazing wide/thin neck. The intonation for each string can be adjusted separately on the SE CU24, so when you say the intonation is better on the S2 are you talking about models with a fixed, wraparound bridge?

We should buy with our ears, not our egos. And screw the self righteous postering.

So true...Sometimes people forget that having an expensive guitar doesn't make them a better player

 

[László]

So true...Sometimes people forget that having an expensive guitar doesn't make them a better player

However, the other side of that coin is that a better sounding guitar allows players to sound their best, regardless of their playing level. A guitar that plays easily also helps.

So while it doesn’t provide chops, a fine instrument with good tone is still worth the investment.

In truth, if that wasn’t the case, most of us wouldn’t be on the PRS Forum.

 

[Victek]

However, the other side of that coin is that a better sounding guitar allows players to sound their best, regardless of their playing level. A guitar that plays easily also helps.

I completely agree, and feel that that's a different, complimentary issue. For me my SE Custom 24s are better (easier to play and better sounding) guitars than the Gibson ES345 I had many years ago. They don't hold me back in anyway. If I had the coin I would definitely get core models - heck I'd get at least one of those guitars with the amazing dragon finishes - but that would be as much about an appreciation of art as anything else

 

[Antmax]

I completely agree, and feel that that's a different, complimentary issue. For me my SE Custom 24s are better (easier to play and better sounding) guitars than the Gibson ES345 I had many years ago. They don't hold me back in anyway. If I had the coin I would definitely get core models - heck I'd get at least one of those guitars with the amazing dragon finishes - but that would be as much about an appreciation of art as anything else

My SE Custom 24 Floyd is the easiest and most comfortable guitar I have played so far. It's also pretty versatile. If I combine with my SE Zach Myers I could almost do without my other 4 guitars which include a Strat and Les Paul. You can get within the same ballpark of those though single coils have a unique sound the 85/15 's' pickups coil tapped don't quite match.

I decided when I got my 6th guitar the SE 24 that there would be no more guitars other than a really nice PRS. I have to admit I have been tempted by the Mira Semihollow S2 but I think I'll wait and try to get something special for my 50th Birthday in 4 years time lol.

 

[László]

I completely agree, and feel that that's a different, complimentary issue. For me my SE Custom 24s are better (easier to play and better sounding) guitars than the Gibson ES345 I had many years ago. They don't hold me back in anyway. If I had the coin I would definitely get core models - heck I'd get at least one of those guitars with the amazing dragon finishes - but that would be as much about an appreciation of art as anything else

We are indeed in agreement!

There have been times I’ve scrimped and saved for core models, and times I’ve been lucky enough that it’s been a no-brainer to get them, but they sure are great.

One day, my friend, you’ll have all you want!

 

[Guitpicky]

So true...Sometimes people forget that having an expensive guitar doesn't make them a better player

Actually it does for me. When I had a cheap Fender acoustic trying to learn was an exercise in frustration. I may have overcompensated a little, but at least with the guitars I have now I know it's never going to be the instrument holding me back. Instead of fighting to play something I'd rather bash against a wall, I get to actually play a finely crafted work of art. Huge difference from a motivational and personal enjoyment perspective

 

[László]

Actually it does for me. When I had a cheap Fender acoustic trying to learn was an exercise in frustration. I may have overcompensated a little, but at least with the guitars I have now I know it's never going to be the instrument holding me back. Instead of fighting to play something I'd rather bash against a wall, I get to actually play a finely crafted work of art. Huge difference from a motivational and personal enjoyment perspective

Good point.