McCarty SC594 compared to traditional LP's?

[cookster]

I will start by saying I love my PRS Guitars, which now make up 100% of my guitar collection. This question comes from a place of curiosity and understanding. I have never had the chance to play an "authentic" Les Paul. By the time I could afford a "real" guitar, I dove all the way into the deep end and purchased my dream guitars (the 5 PRS listed in my signature). My guitars do everything I would want and when combined with amp sims (Amplitube SLO-100 and 5150) I am in guitar heaven.

With all of that said, there is so much history and interest in Les Pauls I am curious about what I am missing. As you could imagine by the guitars and amps I play, my style is high-gain, palm mute heavy, and more rhythm focused. All of my guitars are stock and I find the various stock pick-ups perfect for what I need (almost limitless amps and EQ on the sims can do almost anything with the stock pick-ups).

With that background, I am trying to understand how a McCarty SC594 or even a Tremonti would compare to the current LP models in terms of a high-gain playing situation. What exactly would be different if I picked up a relatively new LP Custom compared to the SC594? I would imagine the Slash LP's higher gain pick-ups would be more similar to the Tremonti maybe? As the two brands play to different markets I understand there are different reasons someone would choose either. Tons of people seem to be drawn to G due the style and history while accepting some of the "design challenges" (read tuning stability, headstock breaks, etc.)

I guess what I am trying to say is when someone talks about the "LP Custom sound" I always felt like I know what they are talking about and I instinctively grab my SC594 or when I watch reviews of the Slash LP, I just look at my Tremonti. In both cases I am more than happy with my guitars, but the G hype has my questioning my thoughts as I have never played either of the LP's in person... Am I looking at this the right way or is there something about the LP's I am missing since I have never actually played one? Also, recently every guitar-related Youtube channel I followed got their dream LP (provided by the Candy pushers..) so I am trying to see if I am missing something.

A little eye candy (even if an older picture): My #1 on the right.

The challenge with Gibson LP's is that they can be very different. I would want to play 10 to find the best one. BTW - that's also somewhat true with any guitar, even PRS, although I think you get a consistency with a PRS or Collings electrics in 2023 that is a level or two above Gibson Custom Shop or Fender Custom Shop (depends on the masterbuilder!). You've got a fantastic lineup of guitars. At Gibson Custom Shop, Murphy lab is picking off the best sounding instruments that come off the regular production line, so I would push you in that direction if you want to buy a great "over the internet" guitar. You'll pay extra for the Murphy aging thing, but you'll get a guitar that was pre-selected for sound quality. A great Gibson Les Paul will hold its own against a great SC594, but I think you can great a great PRS without paying for the relic treatment.

 

[Gtrbldr]

The only Epiphone I’ve ever owned in my life fell face first off a stand and broke… at the scarf joint.

Ugh, that sucks. Most likely means the scarf joint was not glued as it should. A propperly glued titebond joint should be stronger than the wood itself!

Was the headstock glued to the back of the neck or on top? I can imagine method 2 to be not as strong as method 1

 

[11top]

The challenge with Gibson LP's is that they can be very different. I would want to play 10 to find the best one. BTW - that's also somewhat true with any guitar, even PRS, although I think you get a consistency with a PRS or Collings electrics in 2023 that is a level or two above Gibson Custom Shop or Fender Custom Shop (depends on the masterbuilder!). You've got a fantastic lineup of guitars. At Gibson Custom Shop, Murphy lab is picking off the best sounding instruments that come off the regular production line, so I would push you in that direction if you want to buy a great "over the internet" guitar. You'll pay extra for the Murphy aging thing, but you'll get a guitar that was pre-selected for sound quality. A great Gibson Les Paul will hold its own against a great SC594, but I think you can great a great PRS without paying for the relic treatment.

I’ve never owned a Murphy, and I would never buy a relic. However, I’ve bought a lot of Reissues (Custom Shop) Les Pauls, and they are consistently top notch, especially from 2013 on. I wouldn’t be reluctant to purchase a new one over the internet for build or sound quality.

 

[Vintage594]

I have an Epiphone 59 Reissue Les Paul that is the best playing and sounding LP I have played. I have not played any vintage Gibsons but a friend of mine owned a real 59 sunburst and he swears the difference between it and his Epiphone “Lazarus” LP is not that far apart. I also have a new PRS McCarty 594 SE and there is a difference between it and my two Les Pauls, but it is close enough to fool people, and the neck on it is truly special.
I did play a Les Paul Studio Tribute the other day and I found it pretty “dull” sounding. Like you said, there is a lot of variation between models and years of them.

I have both of those new guitars and very much like them as well. Still exploring them and they are fun to play.

 

[Edhalen]

As a pretty new member around here this thread has been a heckuva read this morning. A good group of people here. For a short time I owned a 594 10-top and a CE24. Both great guitars I couldn't hang on to at the time. I've never played a top-level LP so I wouldn't know the answer to the OP question. I do know you have to play them to make your decision.

 

[Lewguitar]

As a pretty new member around here this thread has been a heckuva read this morning. A good group of people here. For a short time I owned a 594 10-top and a CE24. Both great guitars I couldn't hang on to at the time. I've never played a top-level LP so I wouldn't know the answer to the OP question. I do know you have to play them to make your decision.

Yes. And play them for a long time unplugged as well as plugged in. Listen to how the guitar resonates in the room and against your body.

See if it inspres you to get lost and play something new.

 

[xxxadixxx]

Reviving an older thread for an update. So many of you suggested this would be tough to generalize... So I took it upon myself to do some "research", via a new 2023 LP Custom Silverburst which will arrive later this week. I should have some thoughts after a few weeks of direct comparisons.

 

[Greywolf]

I have both , my 79 LP Custom I got new , and a 55 Custom Shop LP Special , and SC PRS along with 8 others PRSi. Playing wise I find the Gibby's to be a but more "stiff" for lack of a better term, they both have better sustain than the PRS, albiet with more weight and a chunkier neck.

The PRS play easier , tone wise .. that's subjective , but I still prefer my PRS's over my Gibby's soapbars.

That being said , I think every serious collector and player , if they can should have a good LP .. ideally around 8-8.5 lbs

 

[spawnofthesith]

I like my SC594 and my LP Standard both quite a lot . 594 feels a bit more modern and sporty to me. I'd recommend hitting some stores and trying a few LPs, only you can determine if its a hole in your collection or not

 

[xxxadixxx]

With only about an 1.5 hour of time with the guitar, after it arrived today, I have to say I am reasonably pleased with the differences. To answer some of my own questions, and echo comments of some those who contributed here, the LP Custom is very different from my 594s and Tremontis. I plugged into my normal rig and did not adjust anything so there will be additional changes in the future. This is simply a direct comparison rather than saying where either could work better.

I found the LP Custom to be more mid-focused than the Tremonti and the pick-ups were somewhere between the 594 and the Tremonti in terms of output. The volume pot is far less versatile than any of the PRS Guitars. I can use the full range on my PRS, while the LP bridge pick-up drops off tremendously after ~7. Overall fit and finish is very good, but with far more noticeable "handmade" features. The nature of hand-made binding leads to far more surface intersections and slightly noticeable changes between the neck/body and binding. Frets are great (all of the guitars are PLEK'ed at the factory) and I am impressed with the feel of the fingerboard which is smooth (ebony). The 498T is much clearer than I was expecting and should work well.

In closing, I see a lot of similarities between my PRS's and the LP Custom (as it is to be expected), but none of them seem to be direct replacements for any of them. The LP Custom feels really good to play and will fill a spot in my fleet.... though it is not going to take a top-3 spot away from my SC594, Tremonti, SC594 soapy. It will be in a comfortable 4th place tie with my DC594 and still getting plenty of attention.

Since this is a PRS focused forum, I will not do a full NGD review/discussion on the guitar, but I figured if I included a PRS in the picture I could at least close out my original questions. Thank you all for the feedback and suggestions.

As an interesting (to me side note), I was talking with my wife about a PS build and her only comment was "Please do not make it another grey guitar"... and that was before this one showed up I guess I have a "type".

 

[Longneck Tenon]

Perfect reply. I appreciate the provided comparison. I read this as the fundamental tone/experience is not too far apart while there are likely differences in consistency. Comparing a (good) stock LP Custom and stock SC594 would not lead an earth shattering difference, i.e. HSS Strat vs SC594. If that is accurate, then it sounds like it answers my original question (paraphrased) "If I am happy with my SC594, am I missing anything significant from the experience I would get with a LP Custom?"

I can’t speak specifically as to a Les Paul Custom, but the difference's between my Les Paul Standard and both my 2007 core and 594 SE McCarty’s is significant. Both of them are quite a bit lighter, although the Les Paul isn’t terribly heavy at 8 pounds 6 ounces. The McCarty’s are both a little easier to play and feel more refined. But the Les Paul sounds exactly like it should, clean or distorted. It just has more attitude, where the McCarty’s are almost too well mannered. As someone once said, a Les Paul is like a 64 count set of Crayola crayons, when you want to use all of the colors in your playing.
A Custom might be a little closer to a PRS than a Standard. They always seemed darker but smoother. Heck, you may not like any Les Pauls. Whenever I strap mine on I think of it as a blunderbuss instead of a modern rifle. But it still packs a wallop!

 

[gush]

I started a thread a while back talking about LP tones and what people think about when you say LP tone.

If you compare them with same parameters then they don't sound that much different than 594sc but where or how far can you go from that common ground?

I'm not a big fan of Slash tone, to me it is thin and harsh. But that's me. I can listen to Joe B forever, love his tone. Listen to Tim Pierce compare the 594sc to a 59LP and they are VERY simular.

I've had a few LPs and the tuning issues just pi$$ me off. Shouldn't have to go to great lengths just to get the dang thing to stay in tune. Doesn't really matter as I don't own Gibson anymore.

 

[Longneck Tenon]

I started a thread a while back talking about LP tones and what people think about when you say LP tone.

If you compare them with same parameters then they don't sound that much different than 594sc but where or how far can you go from that common ground?

I'm not a big fan of Slash tone, to me it is thin and harsh. But that's me. I can listen to Joe B forever, love his tone. Listen to Tim Pierce compare the 594sc to a 59LP and they are VERY simular.

I've had a few LPs and the tuning issues just pi$$ me off. Shouldn't have to go to great lengths just to get the dang thing to stay in tune. Doesn't really matter as I don't own Gibson anymore.

I think the OP wanted to know what he was missing not having owned a Les Paul. Of course the right answer is don’t listen to other people’s opinions and find out for yourself. Which is exactly what he did.

 

[spawnofthesith]

I can’t speak specifically as to a Les Paul Custom, but the difference's between my Les Paul Standard and both my 2007 core and 594 SE McCarty’s is significant. Both of them are quite a bit lighter, although the Les Paul isn’t terribly heavy at 8 pounds 6 ounces. The McCarty’s are both a little easier to play and feel more refined. But the Les Paul sounds exactly like it should, clean or distorted. It just has more attitude, where the McCarty’s are almost too well mannered. As someone once said, a Les Paul is like a 64 count set of Crayola crayons, when you want to use all of the colors in your playing.
A Custom might be a little closer to a PRS than a Standard. They always seemed darker but smoother. Heck, you may not like any Les Pauls. Whenever I strap mine on I think of it as a blunderbuss instead of a modern rifle. But it still packs a wallop!

Great comparison!

I love both my LP standard and my S2 594 and wouldn’t want to be without either

 

[ViperDoc]

Ugh, that sucks. Most likely means the scarf joint was not glued as it should. A propperly glued titebond joint should be stronger than the wood itself!

Was the headstock glued to the back of the neck or on top? I can imagine method 2 to be not as strong as method 1

Method 1 is the correct method. The fingerboard lams over the whole joint as does the neck shaft.

 

[Gtrbldr]

Method 1 is the correct method. The fingerboard lams over the whole joint as does the neck shaft.

It is. And it has the benefit of keeping most of the joint intact after shaping the neck. Used this method once as well, with both considerations in mind

 

[ViperDoc]

It is. And it has the benefit of keeping most of the joint intact after shaping the neck. Used this method once as well, with both considerations in mind

I built some classicals using Cumpiano’s book about 20 years ago, then ended up taking his class in 2005. It was sensational. And hey, he uses scarf joints without any problems. Got any pics of what you like to make?

 

[Gtrbldr]

Very cool!

I have to dig up the guitar. It is disassembled now. It worked, sounded quite decent, but was my first build and built with modest tools. I quit making guitars because of the unease to work with routers: I found them risky and love to keep my fingers. And I am a very cautious individual: all kinds of safety measures, but still when my feeling says: be careful, I have to listen

 

[JJDon]

With only about an 1.5 hour of time with the guitar, after it arrived today, I have to say I am reasonably pleased with the differences. To answer some of my own questions, and echo comments of some those who contributed here, the LP Custom is very different from my 594s and Tremontis. I plugged into my normal rig and did not adjust anything so there will be additional changes in the future. This is simply a direct comparison rather than saying where either could work better.

I found the LP Custom to be more mid-focused than the Tremonti and the pick-ups were somewhere between the 594 and the Tremonti in terms of output. The volume pot is far less versatile than any of the PRS Guitars. I can use the full range on my PRS, while the LP bridge pick-up drops off tremendously after ~7. Overall fit and finish is very good, but with far more noticeable "handmade" features. The nature of hand-made binding leads to far more surface intersections and slightly noticeable changes between the neck/body and binding. Frets are great (all of the guitars are PLEK'ed at the factory) and I am impressed with the feel of the fingerboard which is smooth (ebony). The 498T is much clearer than I was expecting and should work well.

In closing, I see a lot of similarities between my PRS's and the LP Custom (as it is to be expected), but none of them seem to be direct replacements for any of them. The LP Custom feels really good to play and will fill a spot in my fleet.... though it is not going to take a top-3 spot away from my SC594, Tremonti, SC594 soapy. It will be in a comfortable 4th place tie with my DC594 and still getting plenty of attention.

Since this is a PRS focused forum, I will not do a full NGD review/discussion on the guitar, but I figured if I included a PRS in the picture I could at least close out my original questions. Thank you all for the feedback and suggestions.

As an interesting (to me side note), I was talking with my wife about a PS build and her only comment was "Please do not make it another grey guitar"... and that was before this one showed up I guess I have a "type".

Little late to this thread, but I went through a similar process about 6 months ago when I was looking to get a Les Paul Custom Reissue 57 and doing a bunch of research. Les Paul Customs really vary by year, and even within the same year or family of build (reissues, Norlin era, etc.). Its insane how many variations there are amongst Les Pauls and its why its recommended you always play the one you want before buying, unless you have a return option. PRS' on the other hand, are pretty consistent from year to year. Obviously there are some exceptions, but you're never going to get two PRS in the same family of guitar that are wildly different. The biggest differences between the LP Custom and 594 are...

--- Les Paul's are much heavier. My Custom Reissue I think is like 9.5 lbs, the LP Standard is around 9 lbs, and my SC594 is bout 8.5 lbs. I used to have a doublecut 594 and that was even lighter, around 8 - 8.3 lbs. Most Customs you won't find under 9 lbs. The norm for most LP Customs though is around 9.5-10 lbs, with the occasional 10.5 lbsers in there.

--- All have different bridges. SC594's bridge is bolted on, so it won't detach if you remove all the strings and it also feels a little lighter/lower to the body. A LP could have an ABR or Nashville bridge depending on what you get. The big difference is with a historic reissue Les Paul Custom. My 57 reissue comes stock with the taller pickup rings which I personally don't like. I replaced mine with the shorter standard LP rings, but even still, the bridge is raised up much higher than it would be on an LP Standard or SC594. A "standard" LP Custom should have the regular pickup rings and the ABR bridge vs. the Nashville bridge used on a reissue (57 or 68).

--- Pickups are all different. I think LP Customs from the mid 00s to around 2017 used to come with Burstbucker 1 and 2s (Alnico 2). The new ones now come with 498t bridge and 490R neck, which are Alnico 5 and 2, potted, and much hotter pickups (8k vs. 14k ohms). 594's come with the 58/15 LT pickups (Alnico 2). I think those are around 8K ohms. The 58/15LTs are nothing like either of those pickups and feel much closer to the Custombuckers in the Les Paul Reissue guitars IMO. I actually prefer the 498T for more hard rock/metal stuff, and replaced the Custombuckers in my Reissue with the 498T, and about to do the same in my LP Standard by replacing the Burstbucker with a 498T. But if you play more blues based, lower gain stuff, the 58/15LTs or Custombuckers are nice pickups. I like the 58/15 LTs second after the 498T because they feel like they can actually play more harder rock/metal type stuff if that's what you're into, but also the cleaner stuff. They are somewhat bassy though. The Burstbuckers are good for stuff in the classic rock area, but they aren't as good for heavier stuff. Custom 24s have the 85/15s, which are closer sounding to the 498T/490R, but with more bass/low mids. Its a darker pickup, but sounds good under gain. I've never tried the Tremonti's, but have the PRS Metal pickups and imagine they are close to that (both around 16k ohms). Much hotter, but have really good cleans and sound clear/defined under heavy distortion/gain. Nothing like the 498T which is a much looser pickup like the Duncan JB.

--- The biggest differences and what matters most are the neck profiles and whether or not you like or can handle the neck/body carve. The "standard" LP Custom comes with a C neck around .83 at the first fret I believe. From the ones I've tried, I remember it was pretty similar C carve to the 594, except the 594 felt a little more comfortable. Again, this can wildly vary by LP though. Even the DC594 I used to have felt like it had a slightly smaller neck compared to my SC594. LP Reissues though, come with giant C shaped necks. To give you an idea, my LP Custom Reissue 57's neck is about .91 at the 1st fret. The LP Standard 50s (more like a D shaped neck) is about .87 at the first fret. The SC594, a slim C shaped neck, is like .83 at the first fret. I think most "standard" LP Customs C shaped are around the .83 mark as well, but from the few others I've played, they varied wildly too. I think the Tremonti and Custom 24 necks are the slimmest at around like .78 or .80.




TLDR: My advice to anyone, if you're looking to buy a LP Custom or 594, try them out and see which one has the better neck profile, neck joint, or overall weight that you prefer. It doesn't matter how the guitar sounds unplugged or what pickups are in them. Pickups are an easy swap and you're not going to play an electric unplugged anyways. What you can't change is the neck profile, neck joint, or overall weight of the guitar. The neck joints on Les Paul Customs suck. They're bulky and blocky. The 594 will be a much more comfortable playing guitar past the 12th fret, more modern feeling, stay in tune better, and be much lighter while standing up. What neck profile or size you like though, is all personal preference. If you like chunkier necks (like I do), then you'll like LP Customs. And nothing quite has the sound, "grunt", or thickness like a Les Paul.

I personally like both guitars for what they are. Here are some sound clips of my 594 and LP Custom. Even playing through different gear, different pickups, or direct vs. my cell phone, they still sound pretty similar. The LP Custom has the 498T in the bridge and 594 has a Holy Diver, which are pretty similar pickups. The LP Standard with Burstbuckers (which older Customs used to come with) and PRS Custom 24 with Metal pickups on the other hand, sounds pretty different from either the 594/LP Custom.