Longing for a SE CE 24; Any positive developments about the QC of the SE line?

[alwinvrm]

I read on this forum that there has been a significant increase in issues with new SE guitars from roughly during/after Covid till recently.

Are there in the meantime any positive signs to report, like less 'issues', or word from PRS or the dealers? I would love that.

I bought an SE last year that was good, but for the fact that the dealer sent me the wrong guitar, but that is not PRS' error. Having said that, I bought PRS because of good QC. I hate the new guitar problems lottery, so QC is a decisive factor to me. Otherwise I should maybe check out older models if I want quality.

 

[RC Mike]

An option would be trying them out in a store.

 

[alwinvrm]

Thanx, so you are not aware of any changes in the QC situation? As to your advice, yes and no. Shops in Europe are not that flexible with returns and playing and looking at a guitar for 30 minutes in a shop doesn't tell it all. Regarding shops, I ask if they are prepared to do certain things with the set up and trussrod and if they allow me to take measurements. With shop warranties I have bad experiences. If not I don't buy. The online retailers are usually flexible, which allows me to check a guitar and exchange it if necessary, but I hate to do that, I feel it is not proper.

 

[SinSir]

30 minutes with a guitar tells me all I need to know. Setup and missed QC defects are two different things to me. I expect to setup a guitar to my preferences.

 

[alwinvrm]

30 minutes with a guitar tells me all I need to know. Setup and missed QC defects are two different things to me. I expect to setup a guitar to my preferences.

Good for you, I had my share of necks with odd shapes, truss rods that were already maxed out when new, etc. I apparently lack the skill to see these things at first sight. I am prepared to do a fret level on a new guitar for myself, but resets and new truss rods are paid jobs.

 

[Veetwin]

Problems considering the volume sold is not an issue, The SE line up is the mainstay of the PRS business model. They sell many, many times more SE guitars than any others. My Swamp Ash special is quite literally as close to perfect as it could be. ( meaning it is )
I did sand the neck with 2000 wet and dry paper to make it to my liking.
My 24 - 08 was almost perfect when I bought it. After a week or two in my house the rosewood shrunk a little and i just touched up the fret ends with a fret file. The switch played up also however contact spray fixed that. That rosewood fret board was dry, and since using F - One oil it has settled nicely. I live in Queensland Australia, so the temperature change in my house is big, especially going from air conditioning to none on hot days. That is not the guitars fault of course. I love my Swap Ash Special, great guitar, bolt on neck, HSH, maple fret-board, swamp ash body, Abalone birds. No need to wait for an anniversary model now, I have one................
I really have come to not like flamed maple tops. No more for me.

 

[shimmilou]

I read on this forum that there has been a significant increase in issues with new SE guitars from roughly during/after Covid till recently......

What tangible evidence do you have that compares the number of QC issues before and after? Trolls posting bs on a forum is not much evidence of anything except that trolls exist.

 

[RC Mike]

What tangible evidence do you have that compares the number of QC issues before and after? Trolls posting bs on a forum is not much evidence of anything except that trolls exist.

I think it’s reasonable to assume more QC issues in the last year or so than previously. Why? There seem to be a lot more online reports of issues. I don’t think that makes people trolls posting BS.

PRS entirely failed to properly manage supply and demand on the SEs, to the point where they had to do a 20%-off sale for months on end. It’s reasonable to conclude that they might not have had the man-hours to do proper checks on every instrument. It’s also reasonable to conclude that ramping up production may have introduced more problems than at lower production volumes.

 

[Veetwin]

I think it’s reasonable to assume more QC issues in the last year or so than previously. Why? There seem to be a lot more online reports of issues. I don’t think that makes people trolls posting BS.

PRS entirely failed to properly manage supply and demand on the SEs, to the point where they had to do a 20%-off sale for months on end. It’s reasonable to conclude that they might not have had the man-hours to do proper checks on every instrument. It’s also reasonable to conclude that ramping up production may have introduced more problems than at lower production volumes.

There were no sales in Australia. We pay full price. You cannot get an Iri Blue SAS for love nor money. Back order only. I got the first one in Brisbane. Lucky me.

 

[dogrocketp]

I think it’s reasonable to assume more QC issues in the last year or so than previously. Why? There seem to be a lot more online reports of issues. I don’t think that makes people trolls posting BS.

PRS entirely failed to properly manage supply and demand on the SEs, to the point where they had to do a 20%-off sale for months on end. It’s reasonable to conclude that they might not have had the man-hours to do proper checks on every instrument. It’s also reasonable to conclude that ramping up production may have introduced more problems than at lower production volumes.

I think this is not accurate. If you sell 1,000 guitars with 2% quality problems, that will be a higher number of guitar issues than if you sell 500 guitars with 2% quality problems. Multiply that for the number of SE’s sold. PRS reduced prices by 20% because they had more guitars coming in than sales forecasts predicted they could move. Remember orders are sometimes placed a year in advance. Hilariously, they had several SE models on back order because of this.
Fender, on the other hand, was faced with the same problem and chose a different tactic. They sold direct from the factory, undercutting dealers prices to get rid of excess inventory. This left dealers with no choice but cutting prices and trying to survive with lower margins. Almost every manufacturer has/ had an excess inventory problems for a while. We see this in every business.
OP may not know the market, or how manufacturing works. That being said, I do think my Korean SE’s are extremely well made. There were very minor issues with my SE SAS.

 

[RC Mike]

I think this is not accurate. If you sell 1,000 guitars with 2% quality problems, that will be a higher number of guitar issues than if you sell 500 guitars with 2% quality problems. Multiply that for the number of SE’s sold. PRS reduced prices by 20% because they had more guitars coming in than sales forecasts predicted they could move. Remember orders are sometimes placed a year in advance. Hilariously, they had several SE models on back order because of this.

Some of the anecdotal problems are ones that *should* be caught. We don't know the circumstances through which PRS found themselves with a lot of guitars that weren't moving. My guess is that it was a combination of factors--delayed shipments finally arriving, inventory for the new model launches being built up, and perhaps lower demand.

Does the QC process at PRS's Maryland warehouse scale easily? I doubt it, without it causing other business disruptions. Was all of the QC on last year's guitars done in Maryland, or might some have been contracted out? Less experienced QC staff?

All I know is that I've seen an uptick in quality issues. There are a lot of possible reasons for that. Do they scale in a linear way, like you suggest? Probably not. Any increase in volume likely introduces new QC issues. That's how it is in almost every business.

 

[alwinvrm]

@Veetwin​

'Flame tops are so common, Robert.' (Quote from Downton Abbey)

Glad you are happy with your new buddies, and thanx a lot for sharing your experiences, appreciated.

 

[alwinvrm]

What tangible evidence do you have that compares the number of QC issues before and after? Trolls posting bs on a forum is not much evidence of anything except that trolls exist.

I don't have statistical evidence and I suppose you don't have either. So I have to go on what I read, which I understand may be flawed. I also understand it is a risk to ask about QC on a brand forum. I love PRS guitars for their great, the best, necks. I added 2 links from this forum; that way you can check the standing of the relevant members. I read in other places about SE CE issues that go beyond a speck here and there but concern structure.

SE QC issues?

I'm a new SE owner with a Silver Sky, a 594 and a DGT. First let me say that I love all 3 guitars and the DGT has become my #1 since I got it. They are truly amazing guitars for the price. But I have had a few issues. The Silver Sky had a loose nut that was off center by a few millimeters. It...

forums.prsguitars.com

Prs SE quality?

I picked up a 2021 Zack Myer, plays great everything looked ok, I didnt even plug it in, too noisy in the store to tell much. Got home had a wicked buzz, found one cold soldier joint. Thought I had found it, Nope the guitar still wasnt grounded. Back to GC they arent authorized repair, so they...

forums.prsguitars.com

 

[alwinvrm]

I think it’s reasonable to assume more QC issues in the last year or so than previously. Why? There seem to be a lot more online reports of issues. I don’t think that makes people trolls posting BS.

PRS entirely failed to properly manage supply and demand on the SEs, to the point where they had to do a 20%-off sale for months on end. It’s reasonable to conclude that they might not have had the man-hours to do proper checks on every instrument. It’s also reasonable to conclude that ramping up production may have introduced more problems than at lower production volumes.

Exactly that is what forum members refer to and what raises my concern. I was hoping that people more knowledgeable about PRS that me might have some info about a decrease in QC issues. Asking about QC doesn't make one a troll.

 

[alwinvrm]

Haha thanx, I am an interim CEO at times, so I have an idea about production and supply chain. But I don't care. When I am the consumer I don't care about the issues they may have had because of corona based faulty forecasts and ramping up production by 200%. I care about the quality I get in my hand. An explanation for QC issues is not a justification for QC issues.

 

[shimmilou]

I don't have statistical evidence and I suppose you don't have either....

So you assume, and you know what they say about assume. Not only assuming, but misleading by starting a post not about your own poor experience, but about reading other posts that did the very same thing as you have done here, and then somehow using each others posts to validate each other. What it seems to be are just posts that the have the sole purpose of bashing PRS.

 

[alwinvrm]

Some of the anecdotal problems are ones that *should* be caught. We don't know the circumstances through which PRS found themselves with a lot of guitars that weren't moving. My guess is that it was a combination of factors--delayed shipments finally arriving, inventory for the new model launches being built up, and perhaps lower demand.

Does the QC process at PRS's Maryland warehouse scale easily? I doubt it, without it causing other business disruptions. Was all of the QC on last year's guitars done in Maryland, or might some have been contracted out? Less experienced QC staff?

All I know is that I've seen an uptick in quality issues. There are a lot of possible reasons for that. Do they scale in a linear way, like you suggest? Probably not. Any increase in volume likely introduces new QC issues. That's how it is in almost every business.

Thanx, I remember that PRS's that I bought in Europe had a QC certificate from London/the UK. So it is not only Maryland. The scaling issues stay the same of course.

As I said in another comment, as a consumer, I don't care what challenges a company faces. As a consumer I care about the quality I get or the lack thereof. So I hope they are getting a grip on things, but it appears there are no signals of that yet.

Of course the reasons are interesting, because it may help us to understand whether a company is overcoming these issues or not. I fear that when production increases, QC easily suffers, because it is an end of the line action. It is difficult to tell the guy/girl who spray paints or put strings to skip a few guitars here and there. With QC you can but it has a price. So upscaling production with a fixed amount of work stations in the PRS part of the factory, would mean longer working hours and thus hiring new staff or taking them from other parts of the factory, increasing quality risks, and upscale QC staff at the same rate which also means new hires that are less experienced.

 

[alwinvrm]

So you assume, and you know what they say about assume. Not only assuming, but misleading by starting a post not about your own poor experience, but about reading other posts that did the very same thing as you have done here, and then somehow using each others posts to validate each other. What it seems to be are just posts that the have the sole purpose of bashing PRS.

I am not sure I understand your reply. I didn't say I had any bad experiences with PRS in my post, on the contrary. Maybe you refer to another post than mine?

I said I read about an increase in QC issues, which it appears several people in this thread confirmed. I also gave you the references to the posts in this forum in order to enable you to check whether those who wrote the comments meet your definition of trolls.

I deeply regret it if you feel misled, or otherwise hurt by my post.

 

[RC Mike]

So you assume, and you know what they say about assume. Not only assuming, but misleading by starting a post not about your own poor experience, but about reading other posts that did the very same thing as you have done here, and then somehow using each others posts to validate each other. What it seems to be are just posts that the have the sole purpose of bashing PRS.

There’s nothing wrong with what he’s asking or the way he’s doing it. He’s just doing reasonable due diligence before a purchase. No need to try to characterize it as bashing.

Invite people into enjoying the brand, rather than push them out before the have a chance.

 

[Wakester]

I bought my SE CE24, sight unseen, sound unheard from a reputable dealer. There were no QC related issues that should have been addressed before leaving the seller. Smaller boutique sellers do that for you, where as most big box sellers will not.