Lets talk about delay pedals!

CatStrangler

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I have never owned one, but have recently become more enamored of the effect while having fun with a modeler on the side. I am very interested in acquiring one, but there seems to be a myriad of pedals and many of them look way too complicated for me. I would like to use one in conjunction with boost and distortion pedals, but get the impression that the delay should be in an effects loop in this case. None of my amps have effects loops unfortunately. I'm looking for a Hendrix "Red House" type of sound here and no more than 3 or so knobs that will fit my amp situation. Any suggestions?
 
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I have never owned one, but have recently become more enamored of the effect while having fun with a modeler on the side. I am very interested in acquiring one, but there seems to be a myriad of pedals and many of them look way too complicated for me. I would like to use one in conjunction with boost and distortion pedals, but get the impression that the delay should be in an effects loop in this case. None of my amps have effects loops unfortunately. I'm looking for a Hendrix "Red House" type of sound here and no more than 3 or so knobs that will fit my amp situation. Any suggestions?

Sure! Let's start here: This is a shot of Jimmy Page in front of his Marshalls, and those boxes on top of his amps are Echoplexes. They were connected in front of the amps, which needless to say, did not have effects loops. There weren't any amps with effects loops back in the day:



Page used his Echoplexes both for delay and to boost his guitar signal. This is why the famous Xotic EP Boost stands for EchoPlex boost. ;)

I record both of my PRS amps, that do not have effects loops, with boost and distortion pedals in front of an Echoplex or an Eventide H9 delay (sometimes I like Edge style dotted eighth note delays or other digital effects). Everything goes right into the front of the amp.

I'm going to also check my studio notes now with some ideas to expand this post.

But don't believe the myth that time based effects inherently sound lousy unless they're in a loop. They can sound great in front of the amp as Page and many others found out. Meanwhile, I'll check the notes I have and post again shortly.

So here's a first note -- Red House had a short slapback that was probably added during the mix, and it was with a tape machine, not an Echoplex (there were no digital or analog delay pedals at the time). However, some say that Hendrix used a true Echoplex in front of the amp on Electric Ladyland. It's hard to know for sure.
 
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Oh yeah, before I get to my recording notes on things to think about with delays, I'd like to explain what all delays you'd use for guitar have in common. There are four standard controls, though some delays have more, and one or two combine some of the functions into a single control. But the four basics are:

1. Repeats. Sometimes this is called "Regen" which is short for "regeneration" but it's a very simple concept. How many echoes of the original note do you want? "Repeats" or "Regen" controls the number of repeats.

2. Speed. This control can have several names, such as Rate, or Echo Delay. On a reel tape echoplex it is controlled by physically moving the tape heads closer together or further apart. The point of this control is to solve the problem of how quickly or slowly you want the echoes to happen. The faster the repeat of the echo, the more it sounds like a slapback rockabilly thing, and the slower the repeat of the echo, the more it sounds like a true echo.....echo.........echo..... The importance of this is that often you want to have it in time with the music, and it can be any note division such as quarter, eighth, sixteenth note, etc.

3. Mix. Can also be called Blend or Echo Level. This sets the ratio of dry signal to wet signal.

4. Level. On a tape echoplex, there's one to set the level of the guitar to the tape, and another to set the output level of the effect, just as you find with other pedals.

Simple, right?

There are pedals with just a few controls, such as the MXR Carbon Copy, that eliminate the level control. And there are pedals that let you dig in and tweak the parameters I've described above, and add things like EQ, modulation to simulate tape wear, etc. But you can get by just fine without getting into the little details of working with a delay pedal just by concentrating on the main controls I've already alluded to.

And some pedals will let you "tap tempo" so that after a few foot taps you can match the tempo of your delays to the tempo of your tune.

Note also that real tape echo sounds different from even the best digital emulations, and sounds different from analog bucket brigade delays. But for practical purposes, the three are often fulfilling the same function.
 
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It's tough to decide these days. If you say simple most folks will say Carbon Copy or anything similar (analog delays like the malekko ekko 616). Digital pedals for cleaner repeats, studio like delays. Digital pedals will have longer delay times too. Another thing to consider is if you want tap tempo. Some have the switch built in or have a port for a controller. There are also some small boxes that emulate the vintage tape echo and modulation like the Catalinbread Echorec.

I have a few. My most used is the Diamond Memory Lane Jr.. Digital made to sound analog, tap tempo, a couple cool simple but musically useful features like a half/double delay time when you hold the tap, subdivisions, etc.. I also have a little Mooer "Repeater". It reminds me of my old Boss DD3, has longer delay time and sounds very clean. And I have a Lovepedal Echophonic (a tape echo type like the Echorec). I like it but I'm not a fan of having another gain stage on some pedals.
 
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Oh wait, you want a pedal recommendation and not an explanation of how to use the pedal? I may have misunderstood the OP's original post.

Never mind!
 
Zoom MS/CDR/BT pedal. $100 or less and is one of the most versatile delay pedals on the market. A used Line6 Echo Park would be my next choice.
 
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Oh wait, you want a pedal recommendation and not an explanation of how to use the pedal? I may have misunderstood the OP's original post.

Never mind!
No,keep going Les. Turns out there is more to this that I knew of, and your explanation is very helpful!
 
Speaking of delaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaays, a new one popped up from the Summer NAMM show.
BOSS DD-500


I have two of the TC Flashback X4s, the full size one for guitar, and the more compact one for my bass pedal board.
I like the sound of those two a lot.
 
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I run my delays in the FX loop of my amp (Mesa MKV), but it is certainly not the only way to route a delay. The issue I have is that if you use a lot of preamp gain in your amplifier, a delay placed before the input will act as if you have cranked the feedback and mix, due to the preamp gain boosting the repeats. This is not normally an issue for clean to mid levels of gain, and you may actually like the sound, but it does make the feedback and mix controls much more sensitive. Running the delay in a loop will also make the delay sound more consistent when switching between channels on an amp. If you get your higher gain sounds from pedals and/or run a single channel amp, then as long as the delay is after the distortion pedals you won't have any issue.

As far as a recommendation, there are too many different flavors. Do you like pristine echo sounds? Go Digital. Do you want to sound like a tape echo? There are pedals to do that. Lots of delays can emulate tape, analog or digital all in one pedal now. Listen to a bunch and pick what you like.

Tom
 
I've also got a BOSS digital delay stomp box that works great. It's easy to use and very straightforward to adjust. I picked up a Korg SDD-2000 delay unit (rack format) at a pawnshop a couple of years ago. It has great versatility (i.e. Edge style echoes) but being a rack unit it's hard to engage/disengage while playing. I've also got a Pod Farm 2 modeling device that simulates various delays. It too is really versatile but hard to adjust/engage on the go.
 
I love delay -- digital, analog, and tape. Each has its uses, all are wonderful used in the right way, and there are some fantastic options out there. So I'll share a few thoughts about choosing one.

If you're going in front of the amp, as I do, and you have the amp set for some grind, you might find that you like the delay repeats mixed fairly subtly, and you don't necessarily want a lot of repeats, because as they decay and each one gets softer, the amp distortion becomes a greater factor. In fact, with guitar, repeat times such as how many milliseconds of delay you can coax out of one of these things isn't really all that important a spec -- in most cases, every pedal on the market has sufficient delay time these days to work for most players.

But every type of pedal or box will sound different. Digital pedals have tremendous flexibility, and while their emulations of the analog bucket brigade and tape effects are pretty good, they're also not as realistic as their manufacturers make them out to be. I like digital pedals for the things that they do that no analog pedal or tape echo can do, and there are plenty of things that exist in that way, such as echoes that duck out of the way when you play the next note, tap tempo, syncable tempo, and the list goes literally on and on.

Analog bucket brigade delays have a certain thing happening that even the very good emulations by Strymon, TC and Eventide can only approximate. There's a roundness to the sound that does alter it, but in an interesting way.

Finally, nothing sounds like a real tape echo. Having worked with them in the studio for years, it's easy to see why - the ones based on the old Echoplexes and the old machines themselves, are just ancient, weird technology! The machines aren't exactly high fidelity devices, the cartridges are these wobbly, flexing kind of things that have to be held in place with thumbscrews, the preamps distort, and so on, but the end result is a glorious richness and saturation that, I'm sorry, has managed to elude even the best digital designers. When I play a digital pedal emulation of tape in the studio, and then switch to a real Echoplex, the difference is startling. There's a glue holding that sound together and you cannot get it digitally, at least not yet.

On the other hand, analog tape isn't for everyone. The machine itself is kind of noisy, the machine's heads need to be cleaned every few weeks, the tape needs to be replaced. It's not going to be velcored to your pedalboard. So there's some minor work around that. It's not a chip, it's a machine, with all that implies. I love it, I think it's irreplaceable in the studio world, but most people would feel that they don't need it. Just don't take mine away!

Anyway, because digital pedals are so very versatile, and can at least give you an introduction to the various types of delays that have been designed plus new ones, that's the way I'd go to start out.
 
TC flash back delay has the tone print beam into pedal from your phone or tablet, which is handy
 
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