Leg Cut Location and Seated Playing...

Everyone’s body is different. Makes life more interesting! But it also means that nothing truly fits everyone in everything they might do.

That product you linked looks like a good idea, Ray, even though I wouldn’t need anything like that (incidentally, I’m older than you, and yes, when you reach a ‘certain age’ you think you’re the oldest person in the world, but now you know you’re not! ;)). Then again, I’ve been a PRS player for 27 years, so it’s never been an issue here.

Occasionally, I get back, neck and shoulder soreness when hunched over a guitar, so I play standing up, except when I play acoustic. When I do that, I switch legs back and forth to ease the effect of hunching over.

It’s so much easier to play piano. I’m gonna leave it right there! :)
 
I've gradually shifted to the left leg position over the years because of the add9 issue (adding 9 pound at a time in repetitive fashion). But the biggest change I made is playing with a strap sitting down. My last guitar teacher did that, and it made life easier because I wasn't constantly pulling the guitar back to me while my gut was pushing it away. The guitar sits a little higher than I used to have it, but that's a change I've made standing as well.
 
Definitely prefer standing when playing...I wear the guitars strapped-on high up (think George Harrison, to avoid medical issues...carpel tunnel, etc...)...could never get really comfortable sitting with an electric...but I get the acoustic thing, seated.
I also have padding under my carpet in the play room.
 
Well, folks, I want to thank everyone on this forum for being incredibly helpful, friendly, entertaining, and just plain good to be around for the past few months. But I'm afraid I'm gonna move on from the 594 despite really loving it in all respects except one. This problem I've been having with playing in the seated position has proven to be more than I'm willing to deal with.

The 594 is in many ways the most perfect guitar I've ever played - it plays incredibly and it's sound had got a harmonic complexity to it (for lack of better words to describe it) that is just wonderful. But playing it in my preferred position on a guitar stool with my right leg elevated on the rail and the guitar on that raised right leg is really fatiguing and occasionally even painful for my back. I know folks suggested moving the guitar to the left leg and playing in more of a classical posture, but that really doesn't work for me and completely retraining myself is more than I'm willing to do to accommodate a guitar. I love playing it but I find myself putting it down after no more than about 15 minutes to maybe a half hour max, while I can play my other guitars for a couple of hours without any issues. It just doesn't make sense to have by far my most expensive guitar be one I can't play near as much as my others.

Before I had the 594, I had an Ibanez semi-hollow (essentially a relic'd finish version of the AS153) that I really loved. It was the guitar that reignited a love affair with humbuckers that had been dormant for decades. And the guitar that inspired me to go all-in and try a 594. And it's leg cut is kind of to the opposite extreme of the 594, back almost to the bridge pickup. It was very comfortable, something I didn't really think about when I had it because I'd never been UN-comfortable playing before. But I'd played a couple of Ibanez models with the same basic body a couple times since (once when I was trying out P90 options) and the difference and the comfort level really jumped out at me.

So I ordered a nicer version of basically the same guitar, an Ibanez Scofield model, the JSM-10. It's only an $1100 guitar new. They have a $2700 model but it's got some features I'm not crazy about (primarily a compound fretboard radius), Scofield doesn't play it anymore in favor of his old AS200 (which the JSM-10 is pretty much a direct copy of), and a lot of user reviews of both seem to favor the cheaper model of the two. It's returnable - I just wanted to play it back to back with the 594 for a while and see how much of a come down it would be to go back to that guitar. And the bottom line is it's a much smaller difference than I feared it would be. It honestly plays as well as the 594 for my money - I sort of prefer the 10" radius on the 594 but I sort of prefer the ebony board on the Ibanez. The neck shapes on both, while a bit different, are both really sublime. So for playability, it's honestly about a tie. In terms of sound, the 594 wins, but when it get's down to personal preference, it's a lot closer than it would be if you were just objectively comparing the two for things like sustain, note bloom, individual notes in a chord being really clearly audible, etc. The 594 is better in all of those respects, but the Ibanez is also damn good and has a certain mojo that I'm just about as fond of. Overall, the 594 tops it, but not by much at all, and I've gotta go with the one I'm gonna pick up and not put down for a while over the one I put down way too fast because of physical discomfort.

So I'm probably mostly out of here - it was my only PRS and the only one I've ever really wanted. I'll probably stop in and window shop all of the pretty tops from time to time, but that's likely about it. I'll be selling the 594 for a pretty reasonable price - the Ibanez is so much less expensive that I'm more motivated to sell it fairly soon than to squeeze every last dollar out of it. I wish I'd realized the extent of the problem I'd have with this guitar within the return period I had on it, but I'd never experienced anything like this before and I didn't believe it was something I wouldn't be able to work out. And I really wanted it to be a lifetime guitar, so I really wanted to make it work. If anyone has any suggestions on where to sell it - I have some ideas of places to try but many of you have a lot more experience selling and buying PRS guitars than I do so I'd surely welcome suggestions.

I really love the 594 - I've got nothing but good things to say about it. Unfortunately, I just can't seem to make it work for me...

Best,

-Ray
 
Well, folks, I want to thank everyone on this forum for being incredibly helpful, friendly, entertaining, and just plain good to be around for the past few months. But I'm afraid I'm gonna move on from the 594 despite really loving it in all respects except one. This problem I've been having with playing in the seated position has proven to be more than I'm willing to deal with.

The 594 is in many ways the most perfect guitar I've ever played - it plays incredibly and it's sound had got a harmonic complexity to it (for lack of better words to describe it) that is just wonderful. But playing it in my preferred position on a guitar stool with my right leg elevated on the rail and the guitar on that raised right leg is really fatiguing and occasionally even painful for my back. I know folks suggested moving the guitar to the left leg and playing in more of a classical posture, but that really doesn't work for me and completely retraining myself is more than I'm willing to do to accommodate a guitar. I love playing it but I find myself putting it down after no more than about 15 minutes to maybe a half hour max, while I can play my other guitars for a couple of hours without any issues. It just doesn't make sense to have by far my most expensive guitar be one I can't play near as much as my others.

Before I had the 594, I had an Ibanez semi-hollow (essentially a relic'd finish version of the AS153) that I really loved. It was the guitar that reignited a love affair with humbuckers that had been dormant for decades. And the guitar that inspired me to go all-in and try a 594. And it's leg cut is kind of to the opposite extreme of the 594, back almost to the bridge pickup. It was very comfortable, something I didn't really think about when I had it because I'd never been UN-comfortable playing before. But I'd played a couple of Ibanez models with the same basic body a couple times since (once when I was trying out P90 options) and the difference and the comfort level really jumped out at me.

So I ordered a nicer version of basically the same guitar, an Ibanez Scofield model, the JSM-10. It's only an $1100 guitar new. They have a $2700 model but it's got some features I'm not crazy about (primarily a compound fretboard radius), Scofield doesn't play it anymore in favor of his old AS200 (which the JSM-10 is pretty much a direct copy of), and a lot of user reviews of both seem to favor the cheaper model of the two. It's returnable - I just wanted to play it back to back with the 594 for a while and see how much of a come down it would be to go back to that guitar. And the bottom line is it's a much smaller difference than I feared it would be. It honestly plays as well as the 594 for my money - I sort of prefer the 10" radius on the 594 but I sort of prefer the ebony board on the Ibanez. The neck shapes on both, while a bit different, are both really sublime. So for playability, it's honestly about a tie. In terms of sound, the 594 wins, but when it get's down to personal preference, it's a lot closer than it would be if you were just objectively comparing the two for things like sustain, note bloom, individual notes in a chord being really clearly audible, etc. The 594 is better in all of those respects, but the Ibanez is also damn good and has a certain mojo that I'm just about as fond of. Overall, the 594 tops it, but not by much at all, and I've gotta go with the one I'm gonna pick up and not put down for a while over the one I put down way too fast because of physical discomfort.

So I'm probably mostly out of here - it was my only PRS and the only one I've ever really wanted. I'll probably stop in and window shop all of the pretty tops from time to time, but that's likely about it. I'll be selling the 594 for a pretty reasonable price - the Ibanez is so much less expensive that I'm more motivated to sell it fairly soon than to squeeze every last dollar out of it. I wish I'd realized the extent of the problem I'd have with this guitar within the return period I had on it, but I'd never experienced anything like this before and I didn't believe it was something I wouldn't be able to work out. And I really wanted it to be a lifetime guitar, so I really wanted to make it work. If anyone has any suggestions on where to sell it - I have some ideas of places to try but many of you have a lot more experience selling and buying PRS guitars than I do so I'd surely welcome suggestions.

I really love the 594 - I've got nothing but good things to say about it. Unfortunately, I just can't seem to make it work for me...

Best,

-Ray

Not that I’d try and dissuade you, but have you ever happened to see how jazz and fusion great Frank Gambale sits on a stool with his guitar using a pretty short strap? I stumbled on the video linked below last night when looking for info on good sweep picking.

In any case, the strap is so short that the guitar doesn’t get all the way to his leg when he’s sitting down. I realize this isn’t fashionable, but it’s how lots of great players do it.

I’m going to try it myself, because while I don’t have the leg cut issue, I still don’t like to be all hunched over a guitar.

You might consider this before taking a hit on the 594 that’ll probably cost you close to what you’re thinking of spending on the other guitar you’re looking at. And it also appears to be a pretty pro way to play. Gambale is one hell of a guitar player!

 
Sorry to hear about your issues - and sometimes not every guitar works with all folks
I checked out how I played electric sitting down, I rest the back rounded part of the guitar between my legs with the lower horn on my left leg and my right leg sometimes on the leg of the chair ( somewhat elevated ) I also where my strap and sometimes just lean backward to mimic standing playing.
This works better on my double cut guitars with the longer horns my single cut I like better standing.
Good luck in your hunt !!!
 
Not that I’d try and dissuade you, but have you ever happened to see how jazz and fusion great Frank Gambale sits on a stool with his guitar using a pretty short strap? I stumbled on the video linked below last night when looking for info on good sweep picking.

In any case, the strap is so short that the guitar doesn’t get all the way to his leg when he’s sitting down. I realize this isn’t fashionable, but it’s how lots of great players do it.

I’m going to try it myself, because while I don’t have the leg cut issue, I still don’t like to be all hunched over a guitar.

You might consider this before taking a hit on the 594 that’ll probably cost you close to what you’re thinking of spending on the other guitar you’re looking at. And it also appears to be a pretty pro way to play. Gambale is one hell of a guitar player!

Thanks Les. I've definitely tried using a strap on the stool. In fact that was one of my two coping mechanisms for this issue. I didn't have the strap as short as his, but I got the guitar into a comfortable playing position. And it worked, but I didn't like playing like that most of the time and that was the most comfortable way I found of playing it. I couldn't really keep my leg elevated on the rail when I played that way and when I have both feet on the floor, it's not near as easy on my back. My other coping mechanism was kind of squeezing the butt of the guitar against my side as I moved up the neck, which pushed the neck out away from my body and gave me better access to the upper frets. Both of these worked, but not without a cost. Man, I've been trying everything I could short of totally changing my playing position. And I just find myself putting the guitar down way too soon.

And then as kind of a sign from god, once I was trying out the Ibanez again and liking it quite a bit, I happened to see a video of Scofield playing a duo with the keyboard guy from MMW on a Ray Charles tune - what a freaking wonderful player that guy is - and he was seated and holding the guitar just like I do. On the right leg, leg elevated. I've mostly seen him playing standing but I just happened to see that and kind of reacted like, OK, I know it's not the PROPER way to play, but if it's good enough for Sco, dammit, it should be good enough for me. Whether I ever manage to rise to the level of being 1% of the player he is or not....

-Ray

-
 
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Thanks Les. I've definitely tried using a strap on the stool. In fact that was one of my two coping mechanisms for this issue. I didn't have the strap as short as his, but I got the guitar into a comfortable playing position. And it worked, but I didn't like playing like that most of the time and that was the most comfortable way I found of playing it. I couldn't really keep my leg elevated on the rail when I played that way and when I have both feet on the floor, it's not near as easy on my back. My other coping mechanism was kind of squeezing the butt of the guitar against my side as I moved up the neck, which pushed the neck out away from my body and gave me better access to the upper frets. Both of these worked, but not without a cost. Man, I've been trying everything I could short of totally changing my playing position. And I just find myself putting the guitar down way too soon.

And then as kind of a sign from god, once I was trying out the Ibanez again and liking it quite a bit, I happened to see a video of Scofield playing a duo with the keyboard guy from MMW on a Ray Charles tune - what a freaking wonderful player that guy is - and he was seated and holding the guitar just like I do. On the right leg, leg elevated. I've mostly seen him playing standing but I just happened to see that and kind of reacted like, OK, I know it's not the PROPER way to play, but if it's good enough for Sco, dammit, it should be good enough for me. Whether I ever manage to rise to the level of being 1% of the player he is or not....

-Ray

-


Well, can’t say I didn’t try! :)
 
You might consider this before taking a hit on the 594 that’ll probably cost you close to what you’re thinking of spending on the other guitar you’re looking at.
Oh, BTW, my 594 is a 10-top I bought used for just over $3000, so I think the original owner took the big hit on this guitar's value. I'll probably be able sell it for about what I paid if I'm willing to be patient and probably lose a few hundred dollars if I decide to try to sell it quickly. There appears to be a glut of these out there right now - when I was looking for mine in February there were about 4-5 used 594s on Guitar Center's used listings at any given time. At the moment there are about 15 but I've seen as many as 20 on there recently. And there are quite a few on Reverb as well. So I should come out of it OK, particularly give how low the replacement cost is...

-Ray
 
Oh, BTW, my 594 is a 10-top I bought used for just over $3000, so I think the original owner took the big hit on this guitar's value. I'll probably be able sell it for about what I paid if I'm willing to be patient and probably lose a few hundred dollars if I decide to try to sell it quickly. There appears to be a glut of these out there right now - when I was looking for mine in February there were about 4-5 used 594s on Guitar Center's used listings at any given time. At the moment there are about 15 but I've seen as many as 20 on there recently. And there are quite a few on Reverb as well. So I should come out of it OK, particularly give how low the replacement cost is...

-Ray

Good that you won’t have to take a money hit.

I doubt you’ll have trouble selling it; there are over three million guitar players in the US. 15, 20, heck, even a couple of hundred on the market isn’t much of a glut. You’ll find a buyer.
 
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Play in classical position on the left leg. Very comfy and way better from an ergonomic standpoint.
Not the first to suggest that. I've tried many times. It's not gonna happen. I'm at an age where I want a guitar that works for me, not one I have to adapt to in order to play it comfortably. For better or worse, the classical position is even less comfortable for me than playing the 594 on my right leg. I love the guitar but it doesn't love me. And I don't love it THAT much more than others I can play really comfortably, so in the end its a somewhat sad decision to have to make, but it's become a really clear one as well...

-Ray
 
The real tragedy has nothing to do with the guitar. You're a cool guy and people are going to miss you :)
Very kind of you to say, for someone who hasn't been around here long. I'll probably check in from time to time to ooooh and aaaaaah at the purty guitars. And, you know, I'm not in the market, but if you folks wanna take up a collection and buy me a Silver Sky, then I guess I'd have to stay around.... :) The leg cut on that looks like it's located almost exactly where it is on the guitar it bears a slight resemblance to so I'd probably be fine with that PRS!!!

-Ray
 
Very kind of you to say, for someone who hasn't been around here long. I'll probably check in from time to time to ooooh and aaaaaah at the purty guitars. And, you know, I'm not in the market, but if you folks wanna take up a collection and buy me a Silver Sky, then I guess I'd have to stay around.... :) The leg cut on that looks like it's located almost exactly where it is on the guitar it bears a slight resemblance to so I'd probably be fine with that PRS!!!

-Ray

So the hidden agenda and real motive is finally revealed... clever :)
 
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