Leg Cut Location and Seated Playing...

[RaySachs]

So I'd never given the location of the leg cut in an electric guitar (or acoustic for that matter) a single thought in my reasonably long life. I've mostly played strats, teles, and semi-hollows and the leg cut never caused me any issues or gave me any reason to think about it. I'd played a really nice Ibanez Les Paul knockoff back in the late '70s / early '80s, but I was skinny as a rail and mostly played standing up back then, so never gave it a thought. Then in March I bought a 594. Awesome, amazing guitar. Love it, love how it plays, love how it sounds, just absolutely love it every time I pick it up.

BUT...

I'm in my 60th year and a little round about the mid-section these days, and I play seated about 99% of the time. And the 594 is the least comfortable guitar I've ever encountered for seated playing. Which has made me think about this for the first time ever. And it's the location of the leg cut, which is significantly farther forward on the body than on the other guitars I've owned and played. Which moves the guitar to the right when resting on my leg. Which pulls the picking area further to the right and all parts of the neck further to the right, and which makes it notably tougher to get to the upper frets since I have to reach around my belly in a way no other guitar has ever made me do.

I thought I might be a little crazy so I asked about this on a couple of forums (I'd mentioned my early impression of it here in my NGD post) and a number of other people have had the same issue with various guitars. And the primary culprits seem to be Les Pauls, some PRS models (I think someone mentioned just 22 fret models), and various oddly shaped, less common guitars. It's not a PRS specific issue but a number of people noted they'd had PRS models (and Les Pauls) they'd otherwise loved but ended up not keeping them because of this issue. I'm nowhere close to bothered enough to sell the guitar - I love it waaaaay too much - but at least this confirmed for me that I wasn't crazy, that this was real, but just something I'd never encountered before.

I've gotten a lot of advice to move the guitar to my left leg and play in a classical position, but I've tried that at various times in the past and recently and that's not happening. I've been doing this a long time and I'm comfortable with right leg playing and I'm not gonna change my whole approach now.

So, anyway, I've mostly adapted. I sort of unconsciously pull back on the butt of the guitar with my forearm as I move up the neck and that pulls the neck away from my body and makes it easier to reach the upper frets. It's not a huge problem. I'd really stopped noticing it for a while during the honeymoon period when I was basically playing ONLY the 594. But now I'm playing other guitars as well, and I notice it and am mildly annoyed by it again every time I pick up the 594. Then I play it and I forget about it, but it's there...

So, in case anyone else here has this issue, someone on another forum posted a link to a website where an Italian guy has come up with a bracket that fits in the leg cut of most electric guitars to change the position of the guitar by an inch or two if you need it. It's still in the early stages of a Kickstarter campaign and I have no idea if it'll ever get off the ground, but it definitely looks like something I'll try if it ever comes to market. I don't know if it'll work in practice but it looks like it should and, for me at least, will definitely be worth a try. If it can improve the ergonomics of an otherwise perfect $3000-4000 guitar, I hope to get to try it. Hopefully it's OK to post a link since I don't think this guy would in any way be a competitor of PRS, but instead could make various PRS models more workable for some people. So, here it is, with all of the usual disclaimers - no affiliation, not even a satisfied customer since it doesn't exist yet, but a product I'm looking forward to trying...

http://www.guitarscientist.com/performaxe/

-Ray

 

[Cbouty]

Instead of moding the guitar to fit you, why not mod you to fit the guitar? getting healthier with not only make playing more comfortable, but give you more years to play it... everyone is always looking for the right motivation to get fit... what better motivation than a fantastic guitar!

 

[bodia]

After playing, ok owning, not so much playing, guitars for 35 years I switched to the left leg about a year ago. Not sure why. It may have been the uncomfortable feeling on the right leg that you describe. It may have been seeing a player I admire do it that way. Or, something completely random. I will say this, I find the left leg position to be much more comfortable, for me. I went right leg a couple of weeks ago and it felt totally foreign. Maybe give it another try, and stick with it for a week. See if it changes your mind.

 

[beas]

Mostly, I will practice standing up. But, for the occasions when I sit, I have been resting the guitar on my left leg for years. It now seems like a very natural position, though it didn't initially. Like Bodia, above, setting the guitar on my right leg feels foreign and requires that I turn my torso in a way that is decidedly uncomfortable. They say it takes about 63 days of consecutive performance to change a habit. It may take a little while when shifting the guitar's position. For me, it has been worth it.

 

[Solteroblues]

I admit that I switch from left to right leg based on comfort level and ease of access. I typically do the worst thing ever, which is slouch back in a recliner and hold the guitar in a position that is impossible to hold any other way, so everytime I try to play traditionally, I suck! LOL But that do-hicky looks cool and I'd consider one for about $30... not sure I'd pay $100 for it like he's hinting towards...

 

[RaySachs]

I appreciate the suggestions, but I'm probably close to in the best shape I could be now. Part of the reason I'm back into playing heavily again is some health problems that have limited my physical activity. I used to be a hard core cyclist and stayed in very good shape for several years even after I wasn't, but I've got asthma problems that pretty much limit me to walking and really easy flat bike rides. I'm a long way from obese, but I have a spare tire that I didn't use to have. I'm OK with it and am shaped a lot like my old man was at my age and beyond.

And as for the left leg, man I've TRIED it. I had a teacher once that really harped on it and I put in a lot of time, maybe even 63 days (but probably not quite). I'm not a precise player, I"m not a fast player. I'm more of a thumb over the neck, lots of bends and vibrato, so I'm more into leverage than proper form. When I play barre chords, my thumb is usually splayed out to the side. As Mick Jagger sang, "I have nasty habits" and I'm fine with those nasty habits. How I hold the guitar works for me and I'm really comfortable with it. The bottom line is a LOT of people are suggesting this and I appreciate it, but I know myself and if it was a big enough problem that switching legs was the only solution that would work, I'd sell the guitar before I'd do it. So, again, thanks, but it's not gonna happen. I do OK with it as is, just by kind of squeezing the butt of the guitar with my forearm which moves the neck away from my body. If this little device works when it appears, that'll be great. If not, I'm OK. I just raised the issue because I found it interesting to run into something like this after THIS many years of playing, albeit having taken a LOT of those years mostly off to have a career, raise a couple of kids, etc.

 

[merciful-evans]

That device is an interesting option.

I've used my guitars on the left leg for many years, often with a footstool (I play classical guitar, so this is 2nd nature anyway).
The main problem players have with this is twisting the spine. I've found that a low armless chair is best with your legs spread wide. This makes a great stable position with seat and legs equidistant.

What I cannot abide are these high stools that we were expected to use in folk clubs/ bars etc. Completely unfit for purpose.

 

[RaySachs]

I admit that I switch from left to right leg based on comfort level and ease of access. I typically do the worst thing ever, which is slouch back in a recliner and hold the guitar in a position that is impossible to hold any other way, so everytime I try to play traditionally, I suck! LOL But that do-hicky looks cool and I'd consider one for about $30... not sure I'd pay $100 for it like he's hinting towards...

To improve a $3000 guitar, I'd pay $100. I mean, I'd pay that for new pickups - I'm about to put an upgraded set of P90s in my tele and it will cost more than that - and being able to play comfortably is more important to me than a slight upgrade to the sound...

-Ray

 

[jxe]

that thing looks dumb and all of the problems it solves (putting your foot up on the monitor to solo, hunching over the guitar to shred, using a strap to play standing up) are actually cool things to do onstage.

 

[Outlier22]

I noticed this with my old SE Santana which is one of the reason (a smaller one) why I sold it. The Santana model is basically a Les Paul double cut shape so i'm not surprised if Les Paul players complain of this as well. Its less of a problem on the CE24 but still not quite as comfortable as my old strat sitting down. I just play and get used to it.

 

[RaySachs]

That device is an interesting option.

I've used my guitars on the left leg for many years, often with a footstool (I play classical guitar, so this is 2nd nature anyway).
The main problem players have with this is twisting the spine. I've found that a low armless chair is best with your legs spread wide. This makes a great stable position with seat and legs equidistant.

What I cannot abide are these high stools that we were expected to use in folk clubs/ bars etc. Completely unfit for purpose.

I can't stand high stools either. Just a standard guitar stool with a foot-rail about half way up, like the zillions of them you see in any music shop, works great for me. My stool is about 22" high with a foot-rail at about 11 inches. I can play for a long time sitting on that. With my right leg up!

-Ray

 

[RaySachs]

that thing looks dumb and all of the problems it solves (putting your foot up on the monitor to solo, hunching over the guitar to shred, using a strap to play standing up) are actually cool things to do onstage.

Well, as noted I'm a seated player and I haven't seen a stage in over 30 years. If that device helps, great. If not, I'm OK as is.

-Ray

 

[RaySachs]

I noticed this with my old SE Santana which is one of the reason (a smaller one) why I sold it. The Santana model is basically a Les Paul double cut shape so i'm not surprised if Les Paul players complain of this as well. Its less of a problem on the CE24 but still not quite as comfortable as my old strat sitting down. I just play and get used to it.

I just play and get used to it too. But as noted, it was easy when the 594 was all I was playing. But with regular doses of Strat and Tele playing, I'm reminded of it every time I go back to the 594. The BEST guitar I ever played in this regard was the Ibanez semi-hollow I had before the 594. That thing had the leg cut almost at the bridge pickup and it was an incredible guitar to play seated. I never even used a strap with it in fact. If I ever do get rid of the 594 or am just looking for another humbucker guitar, I'd probably just get another of those - it was a ridiculously nice guitar. Not as nice as the 594, but much closer than the price difference would justify...

-Ray

 

[Guitpicky]

I second the notion that modifying the guitar may not be the best or only option here, even if it looks to be the easiest. In the last few years especially I've had to change my diet and become extra diligent about not letting a day go by without getting some form of exercise. Pushing 60 I'm not really looking to expend any more physical effort than I have to and I love to cook and eat so the tough choices don't come easy. I'm simply choosing the lesser of two evils.

Besides that, it's just too damn easy to give up on ourselves... the one thing that ought to be impossible

 

[jxe]

if you’re 60 or have posture issues it may be time for a headless. happened to lou reed.

 

[Shizzrock]

I just set my strap to Beatles height so the guitar rests over my belly, avoids that problem altogether.

 

[RaySachs]

I second the notion that modifying the guitar may not be the best or only option here, even if it looks to be the easiest. In the last few years especially I've had to change my diet and become extra diligent about not letting a day go by without getting some form of exercise. Pushing 60 I'm not really looking to expend any more physical effort than I have to and I love to cook and eat so the tough choices don't come easy. I'm simply choosing the lesser of two evils.

Besides that, it's just too damn easy to give up on ourselves... the one thing that ought to be impossible

Not giving up, just living within different limits. I was pretty hard-core when I was able to be. I rode 5000-6,000 miles per year for about a decade and probably 2500-3000 up until 2012. And then my body rebelled and it's gone in fits and starts, with some better periods and some worse ones. But in my current condition, I can do easy stuff, but anything really strenuous had a downside that's much worse than the upside is good. Hell, I've had an ever expanding set of limits probably since my mid-30s - I'm getting better at adapting to them once I fight them to the point that they convince me they're for real.

if you’re 60 or have posture issues it may be time for a headless. happened to lou reed.

My posture's OK, but my wife might feel that SHE already has a "headless".

-Ray

 

[walrus]

As you said, Ray, I also find the left leg position makes it harder to get the thumb over the neck, etc.

But I find as I have gotten older that I have the opposite problem as most of you - sitting down in any position bothers me, while standing is very comfortable. Admittedly, I've had a few major surgeries in my abdominal area, but it's not just that - my right shoulder gets sore, my back gets sore. While standing it's like nothing.

BTW, I also no longer have any solid body guitars - I'm wondering if a lightweight guitar might help you...

 

[jxe]

whoa going all hollowbody is the nuclear option! thinline strat for you ray?

 

[RaySachs]

As you said, Ray, I also find the left leg position makes it harder to get the thumb over the neck, etc.

But I find as I have gotten older that I have the opposite problem as most of you - sitting down in any position bothers me, while standing is very comfortable. Admittedly, I've had a few major surgeries in my abdominal area, but it's not just that - my right shoulder gets sore, my back gets sore. While standing it's like nothing.

BTW, I also no longer have any solid body guitars - I'm wondering if a lightweight guitar might help you...

Interesting. With my other guitars, current and past, sitting was never an issue. Never even noticed anything about it to the point I gave it a moment's thought. I remember when I was first getting to know the 594, I remember thinking to myself that they 594 was supposed to have such excellent upper fret access - which it does in terms of the lower cut - but I was having a hell of a time reaching the upper frets relative to anything I could remember playing and waaaaay harder time relative to the Ibanez semi-hollow I'd been playing, which has the leg cut back farther than on any other guitar I think I've played. Just glorious amounts of readily available real estate on that neck. And yet it was so hard to reach on the 594. So I figured it out.

A lighter guitar might help if I, like you, enjoyed playing standing up. But I only dug that when was playing in bands and with other people a lot. Even in informal jam sessions with other folks, I usually tended to sit when there was a convenient place to do it. But sitting down I don't think the weight really matters unless it's overwhelmingly heavy and actually bothers your leg...

whoa going all hollowbody is the nuclear option! thinline strat for you ray?

I have a thinline tele and my solid strat weighs within a few ounces of the same. And the 594 is maybe just an ounce or two heavier. None of these are really heavy or light. I've played lighter guitars and never really cared one way or another...

-Ray