I never learn...

Aahzz

Bluebeard Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
6,517
So, I had made a thread a while ago declaring that I was done with bands, and gigging. Then I joined an acoustic trio. Now I've been looking for a new electric band...and as usual, my quest is filled with people who don't read what I wrote, are flaky as hell, or never respond. I'm getting fed up again before even getting together to play with anyone...so may give up the search again for a bit, but not quite yet...and I'm not going to say never again. The itch to play with a full band is too strong. Really, then, I'm just venting a wee bit.
 
I think we always tend to look for guys/people that we want to play with, guys/that are good and seem like you can form a good band with, guys that you get along with so you assume will be good to spend time with creating a band, and all of these type of things. But what can be most important, is finding people with the same objectives as you have. The toughest thing is finding people who want to commit to about the same level on practice time, amount of gigs per month, etc., so that you can be on the same page with those things.

If you find great guys who are great players and you hit it off great with them, have a blast practicing, etc. but you want to gig once a month and they want to gig twice a week... it won't work, and vice versa. So the tricky thing is finding a whole group of people who meet all the first objectives, AND the second. Usually, the band tends to have a mixture of the various "qualifications" and that can last for a while, but not long.

One of my groups I played with had several gigs messed up at the absolute LAST minute, because one guy was "on call." We'd literally be day of a gig and on the way TO the gig and get a call that he couldn't be there. And it was legit. He HATED to miss and LIVED for the gigs, but after a while, we had to decide that he had to tell his boss he could not be on call on gig days any more or it wouldn't work. Mixing in younger musicians who have younger kids is another wild card.

In the end, it's just hard to find a group of 3-4-5 people who are all committed to similar levels of time and energy, have similar musical abilities and goals, and have similar levels of availability.

And then, to acknowledge your point, lets be honest here, the "target audience" for these musician and singer inquiries is perhaps a little flakier than the gen pop. :) And know I don't mean all of "us" but an "above average" amount. But a lot of it has nothing to do with flakiness, it is just general mismatches in the availability/commitment levels. IMO
 
Finding the right people is one challenge. Keeping it all together after you find them is another whole challenge. Many times it boils down to expectations. I have a process that has produced some decent bands and playing situations for me. I have been a manager of people for quite a number of years in my career. I put the expectations out there right away. I let people know what I expect to do in the band, how often to practice as a group, how often I want to gig, the type of music I am interested in playing (this will be very dependent on who is singing). I then ask everyone to provide the same information that I provided. Once you have that, you have a starting point. If you have issues getting the information, move on from that person. Any time we have needed to fill a spot in an already functioning band, we repeat the process with potential new people. I have even met people at coffee shops to talk about expectations before even paying with them.

If someone changed their expectations of the band in any way, it can certainly cause an issue. That needs to be discussed in the beginning. I have had guys in my bands that decided they wanted to gig more. The rest of the band was still in the same place so they either take on a second band or leave. There have been times where we have all agreed to take more gigs for a period of time and then go back to what the frequency used to be. It really has all boiled down to expectations in these situations for me. I even put these things in my band mix profile. I started getting more contacts after doing that.
 
Finding a good trustworthy person who ISN'T a musician, just one, is something very difficult to find these days. Add multiple musicians into the search and its almost an impossible task. Luckily I'm a multi-instrumentalist and I do it all alone now, from writing to recording to video production. When/if the time comes to form a band again to showcase my tunes, the expectations and groundwork will already be established going into it. Basically, Im the boss. Until then, I aint playin' that game again.
 
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Bands Are Essentially Musical Polygamy. You Are Married To Multiple Members Trying To Make Things Work. Communication Kills Assumption. As Has Been Stated...Knowing Where You Want To Go And Clearly Setting The Expectations On All Levels Up Front Saves A Lot Of Hassles. The End In Mind Must Be Articulated Clearly And All Involved Parties MUST Be On Board 100% Or It Won't Work. Often Times We Assume Things And Make The Mistake Of Thinking Other People Will Do And Respond How We Would In A Situation And That Rarely Happens. If I Was Ever To Fully Get Back Into The Game I Would Make My Records By Myself And Hire Out Proper Studio People To Tour.
 
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This is actually kind of a good reminder for me right now. I have been considering getting back into a band again and have been debating on how I want to do it and how involved I want to be. I am typically the guy that provides the PA, books the gigs, pays everyone and takes care of the song list. I end up kind of doing everything. That gets old fast. I also know I don't want to gig nearly as much as I used to...
 
What we need, is someone like Les to make a simple backing track every week, and then we could all create our own "band" by taking turns jamming over the BT and then putting up our version. Les could also offer a tip here and there when needed to help people record their take. I only mention Les because a simple say 45-60 second BT that could be looped would be childs play for him to create.

I've mentioned before, that we used to do this at another forum. It was called the "Friday Night Jam." We had several guys that got good at making simple backing tracks and would put them up for the group, then everyone would take the BT, record them soloing over it and put it up. Some tracks were 30 seconds, and the rules were, you could do as many loops as you wanted... some guys might take a 30 second backing track, loop it 8 times and solo for 4 minutes over it for example. Some BTs were a bit more complex, with more chord changes or song changes (verse/chorus type structure, sometimes more than that) and so those BTs might be 60 seconds to 4 minutes. Sometimes, somebody would take ALL the tracks, put them all together in to one long jam. Several of those were 45 minutes long! And, you could do your track whenever you wanted, so some Friday Night Jam tracks would go on for weeks, with more and more guys adding their take whenever they could.

Something like this would give US something to do musically, outside of the hassles of a band. Something we could look forward too, work on and help each other, etc. And, these days, even the BT could be done by someone in garage band if they don't have access to a couple other instruments to get a track down via real instruments. We could do this!
 
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What we need, is someone like Les to make a simple backing track every week, and then we could all create our own "band" buy taking turns jamming over the BT and then putting up our version. Les could also offer a tip here and there when needed to help people record their take. I only mention Les because a simple say 45-60 second BT that could be looped would be childs play for him to create.

You’re not going to believe this comrade. It makes Laz want to go back to pre-1989 Hungary where the State at least supports musical artists.

If Laz goes to his dentist, doctor, CPA, grocery store, gas station, banker, chimney sweep or roto-rooter guy he found out he has to pay them for their work!

I mean, WTF!!

Laz was shocked to learn that none of these comrades think of their work as a fun hobby and want to do it for free — for even one measly hour!!

You should see the bill Laz’ dentist handed him for a half hour crown prep. Laz wanted it done for free because his dentists enjoys his work just like Laz does!

But oh, no.

None of these so-called comrades are good communists, that’s for sure. Who knew? What kind of country is this!?!

In fact, if his dentist hands Laz a bill and Laz doesn’t feel like paying it - I mean, dental work should be free, right? - that dentist goes right ahead and gets pissed!

A BILL!!

Like he can’t afford to trade his conrade his ability for his comrade’s need!!

So Laz decided he should be well paid to do his work just Iike these other capitalist tools, or he doesn’t play.

The world is a terrible, plutocratic, capitalist-imperialist place place and poor Laz is forced to be part of it.

Just like you.
 
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So, I had made a thread a while ago declaring that I was done with bands, and gigging. Then I joined an acoustic trio. Now I've been looking for a new electric band...and as usual, my quest is filled with people who don't read what I wrote, are flaky as hell, or never respond. I'm getting fed up again before even getting together to play with anyone...so may give up the search again for a bit, but not quite yet...and I'm not going to say never again. The itch to play with a full band is too strong. Really, then, I'm just venting a wee bit.
Patience Grasshopper! It will come to you!! You are unique enough and talented enough to turn the right key at the right time!!! I am sure you are frustrated, but stay focused on what you need in your music world to move forward and feel accomplishments ;~)) Sending the proper spirits your way, they should be there shortly :cool:

Finding a good trustworthy person who ISN'T a musician, just one, is something very difficult to find these days. Add multiple musicians into the search and its almost an impossible task. Luckily I'm a multi-instrumentalist and I do it all alone now, from writing to recording to video production. When/if the time comes to form a band again to showcase my tunes, the expectations and groundwork will already be established going into it. Basically, Im the boss. Until then, I aint playin' that game again.
We are on the same train VV! As engineer, conductor, coal shoveler and everything in between!! There is no replacement of the groove you can feel with other musicians, but in many situations it is kind of like surfing, you wait 10 minutes for 10 seconds of bliss ;~(( If a band ever happens for me, it will have to tick a lot of boxes way beyond how good they are as players. I know plenty of musicians that I really respect musically but I would NEVER be involved with them in a band or business for that matter due to the type of person they are and things I have seen them do.

Bands Are Essentially Musical Polygamy.
Definitely getting a girl band together then! I think Prince was onto something with his Third Eye Girl!!!

What we need, is someone like Les to make a simple backing track every week, and then we could all create our own "band" by taking turns jamming over the BT and then putting up our version. Les could also offer a tip here and there when needed to help people record their take. I only mention Les because a simple say 45-60 second BT that could be looped would be childs play for him to create.

I've mentioned before, that we used to do this at another forum. It was called the "Friday Night Jam." We had several guys that got good at making simple backing tracks and would put them up for the group, then everyone would take the BT, record them soloing over it and put it up. Some tracks were 30 seconds, and the rules were, you could do as many loops as you wanted... some guys might take a 30 second backing track, loop it 8 times and solo for 4 minutes over it for example. Some BTs were a bit more complex, with more chord changes or song changes (verse/chorus type structure, sometimes more than that) and so those BTs might be 60 seconds to 4 minutes. Sometimes, somebody would take ALL the tracks, put them all together in to one long jam. Several of those were 45 minutes long! And, you could do your track whenever you wanted, so some Friday Night Jam tracks would go on for weeks, with more and more guys adding their take whenever they could.

Something like this would give US something to do musically, outside of the hassles of a band. Something we could look forward too, work on and help each other, etc. And, these days, even the BT could be done by someone in garage band if they don't have access to a couple other instruments to get a track down via real instruments. We could do this!
I actually joined another forum because of a similar set up. They call it the "Do Something Challenge". It started with backing tracks, but the last 6 months has just been "put up whatever you want, but put something up" as in MAKE SOME MUSIC! For this particular challenge, you are supposed to be doing something outside your wheelhouse, to push the boundaries, but most who are posting are just putting the usual developments up there, which I am fine with. That challenge is what got me into doing those electronic/synthesizer pieces over the summer. Anyway, I am all for it and my cowbells are ready to rumble! I would not think László would need to shoulder all the backing track duties, there are plenty of free backing tracks out there and I am sure others, including myself, would be happy to put some BTs together as well. Anyway, I would love to participate ;~)) Maybe it could be called "The László FX"!

Playing music is supposed to be fun.
Amen!
 
PS, in response to Ahhzz I’d venture to say that a big reason it’s hard to put a band together is there’s no f^cking money in it, and no one has any skin in the game.

Not many sane people want to do a bunch of work for nothing. So of COURSE band people are flaky.

When I started playing in bands in 1966 - in high school- our 4-piece got $500 for a gig. A new Mustang was $2500.

In college I made enough my first year in my band to pay cash for a new Firebird 400, loaded. And hi fi gear. From band earnings!

Try earning enough today in your average local band to pay cash for a car for 9 months of weekend work.

See, back then we had a union with the power to demand venues pay the bands a decent wage.

Today? Well, musicians are nuts and think they have to show up for nickels and dimes, and some of these people are grown ups who oughta know better.

Insist on getting serious dough to play. - then you get serious players.
 
PS, in response to Ahhzz I’d venture to say that a big reason it’s hard to put a band together is there’s no f^cking money in it, and no one has any skin in the game.

Not many sane people want to do a bunch of work for nothing. So of COURSE band people are flaky.

When I started playing in bands in 1966 - in high school- our 4-piece got $500 for a gig. A new Mustang was $2500.

In college I made enough my first year in my band to pay cash for a new Firebird 400, loaded. And hi fi gear. From band earnings!

Try earning enough today in your average local band to pay cash for a car for 9 months of weekend work.

See, back then we had a union with the power to demand venues pay the bands a decent wage.

Today? Well, musicians are nuts and think they have to show up for nickels and dimes, and some of these people are grown ups who oughta know better.

Insist on getting serious dough to play. - then you get serious players.

I had to laugh......the singer i was referring to had one wireless mic for gear while the rest of us had thousands invested. He did the least amount of work and bitched the most.

He couldn't count and had a couple songs that he consistently botched up because of it. I offered to help him figure it out but he got insulted and insisted he was doing it right.

He paid me back by pushing a cabinet into my prs case ripping the tolex and rolling speaker cabs over my intex guitar cables.

After that, I stopped being nice and things went downhill from there.
 
PS, in response to Ahhzz I’d venture to say that a big reason it’s hard to put a band together is there’s no f^cking money in it, and no one has any skin in the game.

Not many sane people want to do a bunch of work for nothing. So of COURSE band people are flaky.

When I started playing in bands in 1966 - in high school- our 4-piece got $500 for a gig. A new Mustang was $2500.

In college I made enough my first year in my band to pay cash for a new Firebird 400, loaded. And hi fi gear. From band earnings!

Try earning enough today in your average local band to pay cash for a car for 9 months of weekend work.

See, back then we had a union with the power to demand venues pay the bands a decent wage.

Today? Well, musicians are nuts and think they have to show up for nickels and dimes, and some of these people are grown ups who oughta know better.

Insist on getting serious dough to play. - then you get serious players.
In one of the bands I was in within the last 8 years or so we stayed busy every weekend, both Friday and Saturday and an occasional Thursday night. Even then I was only brining in about $1200 a month from it. It would take me a very long time to buy a car with playing. I was just happy that it helped pay for the guitars and other equipment I was buying. Notice I said it helped with it, not paid for it. I easily had about 15k worth of gear at every one of those gigs. The PA was all mine too.

I had to laugh......the singer i was referring to had one wireless mic for gear while the rest of us had thousands invested. He did the least amount of work and bitched the most.

He couldn't count and had a couple songs that he consistently botched up because of it. I offered to help him figure it out but he got insulted and insisted he was doing it right.

He paid me back by pushing a cabinet into my prs case ripping the tolex and rolling speaker cabs over my intex guitar cables.

After that, I stopped being nice and things went downhill from there.
Hey! Sounds like we may have had the same singer in a band with us. I had a guy that was very much like that. The dude had a Sure SM58, an acoustic guitar and a mic stand. He relied on me for cables and a direct box at every show. He was by far the one that complained the most in that band. He is the reason it broke up. It really sucked too. If we could have replaced him with someone better that had a better attitude, that band could really have gone somewhere. I was getting us some pretty good bookings even though he was up front.
 
What we need, is someone like Les to make a simple backing track every week, and then we could all create our own "band" by taking turns jamming over the BT and then putting up our version. Les could also offer a tip here and there when needed to help people record their take. I only mention Les because a simple say 45-60 second BT that could be looped would be childs play for him to create.

I've mentioned before, that we used to do this at another forum. It was called the "Friday Night Jam." We had several guys that got good at making simple backing tracks and would put them up for the group, then everyone would take the BT, record them soloing over it and put it up. Some tracks were 30 seconds, and the rules were, you could do as many loops as you wanted... some guys might take a 30 second backing track, loop it 8 times and solo for 4 minutes over it for example. Some BTs were a bit more complex, with more chord changes or song changes (verse/chorus type structure, sometimes more than that) and so those BTs might be 60 seconds to 4 minutes. Sometimes, somebody would take ALL the tracks, put them all together in to one long jam. Several of those were 45 minutes long! And, you could do your track whenever you wanted, so some Friday Night Jam tracks would go on for weeks, with more and more guys adding their take whenever they could.

Something like this would give US something to do musically, outside of the hassles of a band. Something we could look forward too, work on and help each other, etc. And, these days, even the BT could be done by someone in garage band if they don't have access to a couple other instruments to get a track down via real instruments. We could do this!
I don't know how I missed this. Was that on this forum?

I could be down for this. I have a way to make some backing tracks. I need to finish up some pedals to get them off of my recording desk so I need a little time to get to it but this could be fun.

Is this something we can do on this forum? Or, do we need to do this somewhere else?
 
So Laz decided he should be well paid to do his work just Iike these other capitalist tools, or he doesn’t play.
Les, I get what you're saying. I certainly didn't mean to bring in musicians or anything like that. I just thought that with your experience and virtual instrument arsenal, you could throw together a 45 second backing track in a few minutes. And just for the fun of jamming over, not a commercial release. But I get it. Guess we just need someone who can throw together backing tracks in something like Garage Band or something. Just something simple... bass, rhythm guitar, drums, done.

Any takers?
 
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I don't know how I missed this. Was that on this forum?

I could be down for this. I have a way to make some backing tracks. I need to finish up some pedals to get them off of my recording desk so I need a little time to get to it but this could be fun.

Is this something we can do on this forum? Or, do we need to do this somewhere else?
No, this was on another forum almost 20 years ago. Once it got some momentum, we had two guys two who really got serious about making the BTs and they got better and better and one guy in particular enjoyed it so much that he was putting out a good solid backing track almost every week.

The format was simple. He'd put up the backing track and we'd download it into DAW or whatever we used to record. Then we'd play the loop and record guitar solos over it. The cool thing was, it was "do whatever you can do" so some guys were dropping it into a DAW, recording over it, mixing and mastering and the track they'd put back up was very well done. Some guys were literally playing the backing track over their monitors, playing over it with a modeler or even real amp, and recording it with their phones... so not mixed, mastered but at least they were involved and it was great fun. Then, some guys started also doing VIDEO of them doing their parts.

To do, since we can't do uploads here, each person needs a place to post their music. I don't even know what these sites are anymore but something like "NoWhere Radio" or Sound Cloud, that allows you to upload and link your music (like we have to do now with photos, or like several people here, use when they post a track for us to check out). Record your take, post your link on Sound Cloud or whatever, and post a link in that thread here.
 
No, this was on another forum almost 20 years ago. Once it got some momentum, we had two guys two who really got serious about making the BTs and they got better and better and one guy in particular enjoyed it so much that he was putting out a good solid backing track almost every week.

The format was simple. He'd put up the backing track and we'd download it into DAW or whatever we used to record. Then we'd play the loop and record guitar solos over it. The cool thing was, it was "do whatever you can do" so some guys were dropping it into a DAW, recording over it, mixing and mastering and the track they'd put back up was very well done. Some guys were literally playing the backing track over their monitors, playing over it with a modeler or even real amp, and recording it with their phones... so not mixed, mastered but at least they were involved and it was great fun. Then, some guys started also doing VIDEO of them doing their parts.

To do, since we can't do uploads here, each person needs a place to post their music. I don't even know what these sites are anymore but something like "NoWhere Radio" or Sound Cloud, that allows you to upload and link your music (like we have to do now with photos, or like several people here, use when they post a track for us to check out). Record your take, post your link on Sound Cloud or whatever, and post a link in that thread here.
I think Sound Cloud is still a good option. I am interested in trying to get this going. This can tie into something that I have been trying to do some self study on. This could be something that helps me dig into some stuff I want to dig into and get others involved so we can all have some fun with it.
 
Les, I get what you're saying. I certainly didn't mean to bring in musicians or anything like that. I just thought that with your experience and virtual instrument arsenal, you could through together a 45 second backing track in a few minutes. And just for the fun of jamming over, not a commercial release. But I get it. Guess we just need someone who can throw together backing tracks in something like Garage Band or something. Just something simple... bass, rhythm guitar, drums, done.

Any takers?
It takes me two full 12 hour days to a week of 12 hour days to write, record, mix and put together a decent 30 second bed - even working alone.

I do have certain standards. The devil is in the details.

Not to say I always succeed, but I always go 100% or I don’t go. Call it professional pride or the difference between semi pro and pro.

“Hi doc, can you whip me up a quick surgery? Doesn’t have to be high quality or anything.”
 
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