An Awesome Modeler Would Be...

Discussion in 'Amplifiers' started by LSchefman, Jul 25, 2019.

  1. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

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    Let’s assume for the moment that a modeler isn’t a tube amp. It can still be very interesting. Here are a few wishes I have for an awesome hybrid tube/modeling amp:

    1. Why not have a high quality tube amp whose preamp section can be switched to a modeling preamp? Have the best of both worlds! It’s certainly doable.

    Suhr has a new tube amp head that loads speaker IRs. Why not take it one step further with a tube amp head that can simply be switched to a modeling preamp section? Use it for the tube tone, but also have the user the option of modeling other amps for the times that works better. The tube power section would give the models more authenticity, if the models were designed to work with a particular tube type.

    2. If you’re going to have modeling, why not have component modeling - granted it’s a bit more difficult, but it’s been done before. A computer software program does it, and I think that was a Peavey product (correct me if I’m wrong) called Revalver. So my thinking is, let the model load in different component models, such as a higher capacity transformer, or give the choice between a model of, say, the transformers in a Tweed amp, or a Blackface amp, or a Marshall. You get the picture. Let the model select different tube types, transformers, caps, tone stacks, tone stack bypasses, and even different tube brands.

    This way the model can do things that a typical tube amp simply can’t do: namely, let the owner try different bits and pieces to create a custom amp that never existed before!

    3. Include a built-in load box that can import freely available IRs. Have the input impedance switch controlled by the type of model when not using the tube preamp. UA’s Apollo can already do this.

    I’m sure you have ideas of your own. I’m just thinking out loud about this. It’s not impossible, and it really would be a best-of-both-worlds situation.
     
    #1 LSchefman, Jul 25, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
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  2. dmatthews

    dmatthews Dave's not here...

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  3. Boogie

    Boogie SuperD

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  4. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

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    Is it switchable to an all-tube preamp?
     
  5. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

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    Pretty good, if you run the model through a power amp, but can you switch transformers, tone stacks, etc?
     
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  6. pac90

    pac90 In Helix Land, the waters warm

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    The one thing you hanker for is prs to do a vox type amp? try helix native plugin and m. Britts profiles, it could scratch that itch for you les, maybe?

    You would, ironically, also have the ears for generating profiles / IRs if you wished to pivot there. Theres a big market for the product of good ears, especially now and only growing.

    Its not the same, but its something good
     
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  7. sergiodeblanc

    sergiodeblanc Get in, loser, we’re going shopping.

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    IDK, I did just fine for twenty years with my Digitech GSP2101 and Boogie power amps.

    I think the advent of the word “modeling” and the promise it was gonna sound exactly like the original source amps/effects, instead of just sounding great is where everything went wrong, and the bickering began.
     
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  8. dmatthews

    dmatthews Dave's not here...

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    I don't think so?
     
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  9. dmatthews

    dmatthews Dave's not here...

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    Hmmm...

     
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  10. alantig

    alantig SSBMA

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    [​IMG]

    Damn it. He’s right.
     
  11. veinbuster

    veinbuster Freeze zone

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    Once upon a time I did some programming with analog computers. This thread made me wonder what an amp modeler done in analog might do. I think it would be virtually impossible to mimic a specific amp, but the steep edges you get out of tube response would be inherent in each stage. Twisting knobs could get really interesting.

    It would make for a fun project for some number of months.
     
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  12. Boogie

    Boogie SuperD

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    A flip of the power amp switch and I can do 6L6s + EL34s @ 85w or just EL34s @ 25w. Not transformer trickery, but close.

    Using a switch box I can tap between the Kemper and the MkIII preamp. If I wanted. The rest of the tone stacks are in the Kemper.

    Again, close, but kinda like horseshoes and hand grenades. But last weekend I started to sound like Steve Stevens’ rig, so something right happened.
     
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  13. Clashcityrocker

    Clashcityrocker RedPilled

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  14. Herr Squid

    Herr Squid I was severely impressed

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    Methinks:

    1.) I should dig out my old Pod X3 and plug it into the back of my old Peavey Bravo for 1999-ish lulz.

    2.) I should plug my Axe-FX III into the effects loop of say, a THD Flexi and a 4x12, turn off the power amp modeling in the Axe, and see where that takes me.

    The Axe-FX can trivially route that signal to the output jack of choice, and while it doesn't fully let you swap components, it will let you put any model's tone stack into any of its amp models, in various places inside the amp's topology. Plus there are a ton of knobs for stuff like different capacitor values, voltages, biases, transformer parameters, an astonishing number of frequency and time constant values... the list goes on. I have no idea what a lot of them do, but I'm pretty sure I could get lost in them and make it sound more and more terrible as time goes by...
     
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  15. goat-n-gitter

    goat-n-gitter Dismembered

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    This is already possible, and not very difficult. I do this with my Line 6 Helix and my Mesa MKV by using the 4 cable method - which routes the Helix to both the amp's input and FX loop. Most of the time, the Helix is just doing effects, with the typical selections placed in front of the amp or in the loop, as well as automating the footswitch settings of the Mesa. When I want to really change the core tone up, I can route one of the Helix' modeled amps/preamps (without a speaker cab model) straight to the FX return, bypassing the Boogie preamp - voila, modeled preamp into tube power amp.

    As far as component modeling, Line 6 allegedly does this when they create the amp models, but you are limited to a few parameters like sag, etc. when you use them.

    I'm sure the Fractal stuff will pretty much let you do the same.
     
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  16. goat-n-gitter

    goat-n-gitter Dismembered

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    Isn't this basically what a Sansamp does?
     
  17. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

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    My thinking is to have it all in one amp head. If you feel like hearing a model, it’s a simple switch on the front panel (or foot switch). If you feel like playing through a real tube amp soup to nuts, flip the switch back. If you want a silent head with an IR speaker model for practicing with headphones or recording, a switch takes care of it, and lets you choose between presets.

    No cabling back and forth between a tube amp and a modeler. One box to carry it a gig.

    The component modeling would give the user the option to create models of amps that don’t currently exist. Seems to me that might be exciting, kind of like amp synthesis.

    This is just a fun thought experiment.
     
    #17 LSchefman, Jul 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
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  18. Big Mike

    Big Mike This space for rent

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    Stop thinking like a club guy. You're a studio guy. you need 10 of everything. :p
     
  19. Big Mike

    Big Mike This space for rent

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    I just hurt my self craning my neck sideways.
     
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  20. Boogie

    Boogie SuperD

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    Wha??!! Heresy or do I need to post a zoomed pic?

    [​IMG]
     
    #20 Boogie, Jul 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
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