ZM SE Tuners

Discussion in 'Electric Instruments' started by prs19, Mar 27, 2014.

  1. prs19

    prs19 New Member

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    I'm curious about something. I too have been contemplating replacing the tuners on a ZM that I have pre-ordered. The Phase III tuners look awesome although I know they are not a direct replacement. The other Kluson locking tuners that have been discussed in other threads seem like cool options too.

    After thinking through the cost of new tuners...any of them...I also got to thinking...why am I thinking about doing this. My question is are the stock tuners that bad? Just curious considering the cost of Phase III tuners versus the cost of the guitar...kind of a big decision.

    Thanks.
     
  2. justmund

    justmund Plank Spanker

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    Personally, if I had a(another) stoptail SE I wouldn't bother replacing the standard tuners. Sure it can be quicker to replace strings but there's no tuning stability advantages of locking over non-locking (assuming like for like quality).
     
  3. Chris528

    Chris528 New Member

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    I don't have any problems with the factory tuners on mine, but still planning to put Phase III tuners on the limited one I preordered. They are not a direct replacement, but the screw do line up. Just need to ream out the shaft holes.
     
  4. Raymond

    Raymond New Member

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    i pre-ordered a ZM too and have thought about putting locking tuners on, phase II or Phase III. Was about to come on here and ask which one I can put on as a direct replacement as I do not want to start drilling any wood if at all possible.

    Does anyone know, is the Grovers 406 the only one?
     
  5. Matthew

    Matthew New Member

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    I have zero issues with the tuners on both of my ZM's. Locking tuners add a "cool factor" and do expedite stringing however
     
  6. Mikegarveyblues

    Mikegarveyblues Cream Crackered

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    Are they the same tuners as on the Bernie Marsden?

    If so they work perfectly well... Not keen on the greenish tint but I'm not replacing mine until they need it.
     
  7. Felix

    Felix New Member

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    I know it is an unpopular opinion, but I do not like the Phase III tuners and wish my Hollowbody II had Phase II tuners. I will leave the open-backed ones on -even though they are messy and greasy and they will catch on my hair if I'm not careful- because to replace them with Phase 2s would be to have 6 useless holes in my headstock.

    As far as replacing them with non-locking tuners, I have been told, and it is my opinion that, if used correctly, locking tuners contribute to tuning stability by leaving a lot less of the string around the post to stretch and slip.
     
  8. justmund

    justmund Plank Spanker

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    I'm considering putting the stock tuners back on my SE Semi-hollow to test this. IMO, as long as the strings are stretched properly then there shouldn't be any issues. Consider the design of the PRS wraparound bridge; there's a lot of string wrapped around that badboy too...
     
  9. Felix

    Felix New Member

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    Whoops, some of my text got omitted ("non-opinion"?)!

    I thought that the "wraparound" bridge would leave more string to slip but if you look at it carefully, the saddles are very smooth and allow the string to slip across their surfaces rather easily (except perhaps the low E string, which is almost too massive to slip (I tested it) except perhaps under great added tension (a bend of more than 8 half-steps is required to do this (measured from the center of the string at the 12th fret)), and then in a granular manner, popping into place, as it were, whereas the angle of the string over most of the bridge is very gentle (as well as in a channel), right up until the end of the bridge, where there is an almost 90-degree angle; after this bend there is string travel of only about 4 mm before there is an even sharper angle... after this the string is another 2 cm, approximately. I think that this "extra" 2 cm is unlikely to slip much because of the 2 sharp angles totaling approximately 180 degrees in the space of 4 mm; if it does slip, I think it will be less dramatic and sudden than some string malfunctions can be (and important to the wrapped strings more than to the B and high e, as well). I have not noticed any string slipping (of the sort which actually detunes the guitar, at least) from the bridge of my own ("wraparound-tailed") Hollowbody II.

    I forgot to mention that my HBII is strung with .009-.042s, with a wrapped G in a .018 size.
     
    #9 Felix, Mar 27, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
  10. sergiodeblanc

    sergiodeblanc Get in, loser, we’re going shopping.

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    Try livin' in my world of winged tuners. :rolleyes:
     
  11. Felix

    Felix New Member

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    ^ I can only imagine... *Sympathy*
     
  12. justmund

    justmund Plank Spanker

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    Haha yep, the perils of editing on a mobile...

    I think it's all a little bit too complex to work out theoretically, and it's easier just testing it (e.g. does bending a string introduce enough additional tension to overcome the friction between the string and it's contact points, so that the string does "move" over these points as it stretches slightly, and if it does "move", does it return to it's original position blah blah).

    If I had more time (I'm going away for work on Monday for 4 weeks) I would put an original tuner back onto say the high E string, stretch, tune using a strobe tuner, do a bunch of the same bends on the E and B strings, and see if there's any difference in tuning afterwards. Not perfect but it should give an idea of any performance differences between the 2 tuners.
     
  13. Felix

    Felix New Member

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    ^ If -like in a month or whatever- you do do that experiment, let us know the results, all right? I think to be valid the strings would have to be the same gauge; just saying.

    As far as testing out how stable the tuning is, that is why I was trying out 8-half-step bends on the low E string, to see if the string would move relative to the bridge (umm... nope). *Ouch* (...Reminds Felix of his "things to avoid so as to not get tendonitis again" list.)
     
    #13 Felix, Mar 27, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
  14. CoreyT

    CoreyT PRS Addiction

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  15. Raymond

    Raymond New Member

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    Thanks Corey, i do like the look of those, seen very similar ones on the back of Les Pauls.

    Although one thing i want to change are the buttons, I know the ZM comes with the same green ones, the ZM I am getting is Tobacco Sunburst so I am planning to swap them to a rosewood buttons.

    Something like this if I go for Grovers 406c.

    http://www.crazyparts.de/mode/tunerbuttons/grover-rotomatic-rosewood.php

    So I guess I am asking is can the tuners you linked to have the buttons swapped over and would it be difficult ?
     
  16. CoreyT

    CoreyT PRS Addiction

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    I am not sure if they can or not.
    I had tulip vintage style tuners on my '73 Gibson Les Paul, and also my 2012 Gibson '61 Reissue SG.
    Swapped them both out.
     
  17. justmund

    justmund Plank Spanker

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    Yep will do, and I know it's not perfect hence why I said it's "not perfect" :p

    I have 406c's and I hate them. The design is not condusive for quick string changes on a dark stage. Even with all the time in the world they're a pain to get right. I'd choose Phase II/IIIs over them any day of the week, and let's not forget there's a reason why PRSh puts brass posts where the string contacts the tuner...
     
  18. Raymond

    Raymond New Member

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    I have Phase III on my CU24 but I am just want to upgrade the stock tuners? I really don't want to start drilling the guitar so looking for some locking tuners that just drop straight in.
     
    #18 Raymond, Mar 27, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
  19. justmund

    justmund Plank Spanker

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  20. Raymond

    Raymond New Member

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    Doesn't look like it i am afraid! I don't even own a drill.
     

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