Tungsten Tremolo Blocks for PRS

[Dusty Chalk]

I love internet for the ability to access tons of information... unfortunately, NOT everything you find on the internet is true!
Unfortunately, a lot of it is bulls$h53%t.

Steel is not better than brass, brass is not better than steel, neither is better than aluminium, tungsten, titanium, cobalt, or any other material someone dreams of using.
They are all different. They all sound different. They all have their place depending on the application It's that simple...

Just sayin'...

Emphasis mine, quoted for truth.

Yeah, sorry about that, I had hoped that it was clear that my link and statement were complete oversimplifications. Steel, brittle? Brass, bendy? Only at the most industrial of usages.

 

[]-[@n$0Ma☩!©]

Regrettably, no one is going to pay for a randomized, double blind test of this experiment, so the best we can hope for is that someone working on a master's thesis takes this on as a project so we can get some real numbers to attach what are mostly anecdotal reports.

All fair points but my primary interest is weight -- which is easy to quantify.

OMG... are we actually getting traction on this project?

Hans... I thought this was on HOLD with the move.

If you're still willing to make them, I'll still take two. I just won't be able to do anything with them until I return to the US.

If you change from brass to tungsten, you will more than double the mass of the tremolo block.

That's the point.

But what is the goal?

For me, added weight with the possibility of a tighter low end.

That block can't be a very high percentage of the mass of the body overall. I don't remember what the tremolo cavity is like, but would it be easier to experiment with the effects of mass by simply wrapping the existing bridge in a layer of lead and do some before and after tests for the impacts on sustain and low end?

Sure. But that's no fun at all.

 

[justmund]

Interesting idea, but I wonder about the ROI. If you change from brass to tungsten, you will more than double the mass of the tremolo block. Tungsten is many times more expensive than brass in material cost, and very difficult to machine. I'm very curious about the cost of such a project.

But what is the goal? That block can't be a very high percentage of the mass of the body overall. I don't remember what the tremolo cavity is like, but would it be easier to experiment with the effects of mass by simply wrapping the existing bridge in a layer of lead and do some before and after tests for the impacts on sustain and low end?

If the theory is that there is somehow a difference in the energy transfer through tungsten relative to brass, I'd be interested in the science behind that, too.

I'm assuming the cost will go down with the more takers John gets, another reason why I'm in (curiousity is the biggest reason).

IMO wrapping the block in lead will have a negative effect on sustain and tone, lead being relatively soft it would (possibly) have a dampening effect on any vibrations, especially if the lead is not very tightly secured around the block.

As mentioned, I plan to record before and after samples with all 4 versions of the trems/blocks I will have. I dare say there will be a noticeable difference (especially between the steel block and 1-piece brass), but yes, playing consistently will be the difficult part.

 

[John Mann]

Okay ... There is enough interest that I guess we will have move forward with this project!
I have a bunch of projects on my plate, so this won't happen overnight, but it will certainly be done before Hans comes back home ;-)

I will start by finding a metal source and then we will go from there. Stay posted...

JM

 

[CatStrangler]

Okay ... There is enough interest that I guess we will have move forward with this project!
I have a bunch of projects on my plate, so this won't happen overnight, but it will certainly be done before Hans comes back home ;-)

I will start by finding a metal source and then we will go from there. Stay posted...

JM

\m/

 

[justmund]

\m/

Literally

 

[CatStrangler]

is there any chance for steel blocks too John?

 

[henryr]

I may have mentioned, in an earlier post, that I’m a flute player, technician and tinkerer.
I’ve made quite a few flute stoppers and crowns out of titanimum, zirconium, one of niobium and one of very heavy IN100 which is a nickel alloy. The IN100 was terrible. It deadened the sound of the head joints.

I’ve settled on zirconium as my material of choice and have sold a few. Both titanium, which
is quite light, and zirconium ring when tapped. I wonder if these elements, while light weight,
might increase sustain, and result in slightly lighter guitars. I know they reduce the damping of flute
headjoints when compared to conventional cork and various plastics stoppers.

Bottom lines is, my trials have shown me that, heavy doesn’t translate to better vibrational properties in flutes.

 

[henryr]

I forgot to mention that I did try tungsten once and left it because it didn't seem to have the ringing qualities of Zr and Ti. Maybe the ringing quality of bell brass, or bronze, is what makes it a desirable material?

 

[gush]

What would one of these blocks cost?

 

[henryr]

Something to consider. One of the interesting and dangerous things that can happen when machining zirconium (Zr), without coolant, is that the small fines can and usually do ignite. If they land on small machining chips, lets say on your lathe bed, you will have a Zr fire. The more chips the larger the fire. The first time is very scary. They can also very quickly burn through your clothing. Shirt sleeves or hands and arms are usually the first areas to get burnt from ignited chips flying off the work piece. Same thing happens with magnesium.

 

[greiswig]

Still curious about this. Any further progress?

 

[Dogdoc]

Mr. Mann has a waiting list for his tungsten blocks and when he fill the list he will make a limited run. When I last spoke with him he just needed a couple more names to fill an order.

 

[greiswig]

Mr. Mann has a waiting list for his tungsten blocks and when he fill the list he will make a limited run. When I last spoke with him he just needed a couple more names to fill an order.

I contacted him via his web site form, but I don't know if he received it. I am interested if the price is right.

 

[]-[@n$0Ma☩!©]

You could just call him at his shop. Here's his info:

112 Wallace Rd Bedford, NH 03110 United States +1 (603) 488-1912

 

[greiswig]

Thanks! I'll do that if I don't get an email back.

 

[]-[@n$0Ma☩!©]

I will start by finding a metal source and then we will go from there. Stay posted...

JM

John,

Any movement on the tungsten blocks? I would like to get my hands on two or three of them in the next couple months.

~Hans

 

[]-[@n$0Ma☩!©]

Still hoping to get you to make me some Tungsten trem blocks, John.

 

[John Mann]

I am finally beginning to get on this project !
Waiting on material pricing...

 

[Bob Turner]

Wow a Flux Reactor.................................