SS frets!

[László]

What you have to ask yourselves before this becomes too much of a witchhunt for someone with a contrary viewpoint, those who bash SS, support the nickel=better theory.

I don't say nickel's better. It's simply got a different tone. I hope I made that point clearly!

There is no "better" when it comes to this stuff. It's just a matter of what works best for each of us. The nickel (they have plenty of copper and tin and are actually kinda a bronze) frets seem to float my boat.

This doesn't mean that SS shouldn't float your boat, or anyone else's.

I have over 50 years, and I know I don’t know diddley, other than Bo. You like confrontation more than discussion, Drew. That’s what people object to, not what you say.

This.

Drew is intelligent, and probably a nice guy in person. But on the internet...not so much.

 

[László]

I agree. I have owned two MM Stingrays, and the current one I have I purchased in 2006. I will never get rid of it. Only bass guitar I have ever owned that I don't want to put down (although the weight these days has me putting it down faster than I would like)!!! That said, I have never played a Grainger or any PRS bass, so maybe they would be better, happy to wrap my arms around one if I have a chance!!

I record with a MM Sledge bass. I got it a few years ago. The frets are listed as "high profile, medium width", but they don't say anything about what they're made of. They could be SS for all I know or care.

My son suggested I get a Fender style bass, simply because that's what he records with, and he felt it would be well suited to my music. Couldn't find a Fender bass I liked, though. So I got the Sledge. Nice instrument.

You'll hear Paul Smith compliment MM instruments often.

 

[Huggy Love]

I don't say nickel's better. It's simply got a different tone. I hope I made that point clearly!

There is no "better" when it comes to this stuff. It's just a matter of what works best for each of us. The nickel (they have plenty of copper and tin and are actually kinda a bronze) frets seem to float my boat.

This doesn't mean that SS shouldn't float your boat, or anyone else's.

That's just a deflection, and besides my point, the tonal difference I've found is minimal compared to the actual economics and logistics.
It's not about seagoing vessels, or the fact that SS undeniably has BETTER durability, I still pose the question ...

have you spent enough time with a SS fret guitar to really be able to form that strong an opinion on this?

 

[dmatthews]

I just claim to have nearly 25 years in a manufacturing business environment and base my viewpoints in this thread off that.

I get it. My 38 years in telecom/business just doesn't stack up.

 

[László]

That's just a deflection, and besides my point, the tonal difference I've found is minimal compared to the actual economics and logistics.
It's not about seagoing vessels, or the fact that SS undeniably has BETTER durability, I still pose the question ...

have you spent enough time with a SS fret guitar to really be able to form that strong an opinion on this?

Deflection?? No, it's what I think. If I can hear it, and don't care for it, it's not minimal.

I've heard the difference in overtone structure playing SS fret guitars. Isn't that enough to form an opinion? I have to buy one to decide it's not for me, or what?

It's not my intention to push my opinion on anyone else. Merely to express it. I don't know what you're after here, and don't much care.

 

[Screamingdaisy]

I could say that I like the sound of vertical input JCM800 more than I like a horizontal input JCM800 and no one would question it, but the second I say I like the sound of a vertical input JCM800 more than a modelled JCM800 the modeller crowd freaks out, accuses me of confirmation bias, questions my ability to hear such a minute difference and that I’d never be able to pick it out in a mix.

That’s what this thread reminds me of.

 

[dmatthews]

I could say that I like the sound of vertical input JCM800 more than I like a horizontal input JCM800 and no one would question it, but the second I say a tube amp sounds better than a modeller the modeller crowd freaks out and questions my ability to hear such a minute difference and that I’d never be able to pick it out in a mix.

That’s what this thread reminds me of.

Subjective things are subjective.
Everyone deserves what's good for them and their ears.

 

[veinbuster]

I get it. My 38 years in telecom/business just doesn't stack up.

Years in most things doesn’t mean a ton. Breadth of experience, in my opinion, matters much more. I’m sure I learned much more by talking to executives in different companies than I could have doing the same thing with the same people all of the time. Not that I wouldn’t trust you on telco matters.

There are many ways to run a business. On the whole, I respect the way PRS is run. Further, I think it is absurd to project another company’s decision making history onto them.

 

[dmatthews]

Years in most things doesn’t mean a ton. Breadth of experience, in my opinion, matters much more. I’m sure I learned much more by talking to executives in different companies than I could have doing the same thing with the same people all of the time. Not that I wouldn’t trust you on telco matters.

There are many ways to run a business. On the whole, I respect the way PRS is run. Further, I think it is absurd to project another company’s decision making history onto them.

Agreed. I relate to techs, accounting, sales, and manufacturers in all those capacities on a weekly basis. Making decisions with blinders on is a mistake.

 

[Ovibos]

“This very successful company with a huge order backlog should change their product offerings to better align to my personal taste” is peak Internet.

 

[alantig]

“This very successful company with a huge order backlog should change their product offerings to better align to my personal taste” is peak Internet.

“My personal taste is a fact” is close behind.

 

[Huggy Love]

I've heard the difference in overtone structure playing SS fret guitars. Isn't that enough to form an opinion?

Not sure, were you the one playing those SS guitars? How much time did you spend with it analyzing the sonic frequencies?
All I'm getting at is I see a lot of strong opinions and not a lot of real first hand experience.

 

[Drew]

Deflection?? No, it's what I think. If I can hear it, and don't care for it, it's not minimal.

I've heard the difference in overtone structure playing SS fret guitars. Isn't that enough to form an opinion? I have to buy one to decide it's not for me, or what?

It's not my intention to push my opinion on anyone else. Merely to express it. I don't know what you're after here, and don't much care.

1) By heavily pushing back (and very nastily sometimes) on anyone with a different point of view than your own, you are in fact pushing your opinion on people. Par for the course on this forum and it's not just you.

2) Name the exact guitar you played with SS frets to form such strong opinions. My opinion based on your responses is either you have never played one or you played one for such a short duration of time that it would be impossible to judge. You have backed yourself into a very obvious corner. You have stated you only play PRS guitars. We have had had 2 limited editions so far with SS frets? Did you have one of those in your possession? Maybe someone's private stock? Name the guitar or back off and admit you don't have enough info to judge beyond what Paul says and the short vid from Warmoth.

Les.. you have some great insight into many things music. But, on the flip side of the coin, you can be so full of S%^&.

 

[cjlloyd]

I think how you play has just as much, if not more of an effect on fret wear than the difference in hardness between SS and nickel. My ibanez which I've had about 10 years has SS frets, but it's 25.5" and I use 10-52s on it. I'm not heavy handed at all, but some of the frets are so worn now that it frets out on certain bends. My PRS has nickel frets, 25" scale length and I use 9-46s. You don't have to dig in nearly as much when bending with these specs. I've only had it a few years, so in fairness it remains to be seen how the frets will look after 10 years of regular playing, but I would be very surprised if they were as worn as the SS frets on my ibanez after the same period of time.

 

[aphantomvaper]

Wait until you accidentally have magnetized your stainless steel frets. More attractive and less attractive at the same time.

I am sure I'm not helping...

 

[Drew]

I think how you play has just as much, if not more of an effect on fret wear than the difference in hardness between SS and nickel. My ibanez which I've had about 10 years has SS frets, but it's 25.5" and I use 10-52s on it. I'm not heavy handed at all, but some of the frets are so worn now that it frets out on certain bends. My PRS has nickel frets, 25" scale length and I use 9-46s. You don't have to dig in nearly as much when bending with these specs. I've only had it a few years, so in fairness it remains to be seen how the frets will look after 10 years of regular playing, but I would be very surprised if they were as worn as the SS frets on my ibanez after the same period of time.

Did you re-fret? The first non-J Custom Ibanez to ship with stainless frets were the Uppercut models in 2016. I don't believe any J Customs before then had stainless either. Stainless is a relatively new thing for Ibanez.

 

[cjlloyd]

Did you re-fret? The first non-J Custom Ibanez to ship with stainless frets were the Uppercut models in 2016. I don't believe any J Customs before then had stainless either. Stainless is a relatively new thing for Ibanez.

Ahh I must be remembering incorrectly then

 

[11top]

 

[RickP]

I owned a Carvin CT6 ordered with SS frets, an option that Jeff later made standard on Kiesels… and even Kiesels can have non-stainless material if you want. I liked the stainless frets. They are very slick and never tarnished. I would love to try the Gold EVO they offer, too, as I’ve never even seen those in person.

My point has been that PRS deciding not to use SS in their core line is just that… a decision. Paul’s decision. It’s not necessary that I like it or not, because I don’t have to live with it. If I’ve just got to have ‘em in a PRS guitar, I can have ‘em in a PRS guitar. If the means of doing that strikes me as unacceptable, and I won’t do it, then that is my decision. And by the way, indicates it isn’t that important to me after all.

Anyone who wants stainless frets in any guitar can get stainless frets in any guitar. Whether or not they do is their decision, and if they don’t have them they have no farther to go than the nearest mirror to find the source of their anguish. The only real question is do they matter enough to you to go get them?

PS- In case you didn’t start at the beginning, the OP did the refret. The rest of his rant is what it is, but he did put his money where his mouth is on the stainless fret issue, and that I can respect. That he came in and dropped this turd on the floor, then never commented again says a lot, too. These threads are the worst.

 

[Drew]

Anyone who wants stainless frets in any guitar can get stainless frets in any guitar. Whether or not they do is their decision, and if they don’t have them they have no farther to go than the nearest mirror to find the source of their anguish. The only real question is do they matter enough to you to go get them?

Anyone can certainly re-fret a guitar but guitar lutherie is a dying artform and there is always the chance you find someone who isn't so great at it and ruins your guitar. I have a new LP standard that I'm going to refret to jumbo stainless (only because Gibby med jumbo is way too small for my liking) and I'm not feeling so hot about doing it. That's even considering that this particular shop is owned by a Gibby dealer and would certainly replace my guitar in the worst case scenario. I just like this particular LP a lot. For PRS, the tech center won't even entertain the idea of refretting in stainless wire. If PRS is always going to have this firm stance that they won't put SS wire on production instruments, then I hope they change their policy on having it done in the tech center.