Speaking Of Talent...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by LSchefman, Apr 4, 2016.

  1. Mixstar

    Mixstar Just too tired . . .

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2015
    Messages:
    690
    Likes Received:
    151
    If you have a Google rummage about Jimmy you'll find that apart from his Led Zep antics he did a lot of studio work for other artists, he played the lead in "Your Really Got Me" by the Kinks and it's rumoured he played the lead on "Wishing Well" by Free, Koss was in the advanced stages of his addiction so it's likely. Some folks have said you can tell from the solo (I can't) that it isn't Paul as the vibrato isn't the same. He also played on tracks with Hermans Hermits (good god I hear you say) Donovon and Screaming Lord Such plus quite a few more. He's a very interesting and talented man.
     
    veinbuster and Dusty Chalk like this.
  2. NomadMike

    NomadMike New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    887
    Likes Received:
    1
    "Oh, Crikey! I wasn't on 'You Really Got Me,' but I did play on the Kinks' records. That's all I'm going to say about it. But every time I do an interview, people ask me about 'You Really Got Me.' So maybe somebody can correct Wikipedia so people won't keep asking me." Jimmy Page.

    Wishing Well may be confusing as Maggie Bell had a song Wishing Well that Page did play on.
     
  3. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    24,216
    Likes Received:
    19,616
    Yup, I played on "You Really Got Me." It was a really interesting session. I walked in with my accordion case and the Ampeg with its accordion input, I started setting up for the session per the producer's instruction. One of the guys in the Kinks came over, shook, my hand, and said, "We've never recorded with an accordion player before." I told him I'd largely stay out of the way, I was just there to lay down pads,

    Then I noticed the tones they were getting on guitar were way too clean for the tune. As we were doing takes, the producer asked me what I thought about the guitar tones, and I said, "Maybe they could dirty them up a bit? Why not try a fuzz box?"

    "They haven't been invented yet," came the reply.

    "Treble Boost?"

    "Nope."

    "Well the how about cutting a little slice into the guitar speakers? That'll distort 'em more. I have a straight razor in my PRS Accessory Bag."

    "What's a PRS?"

    "Never mind, it's American, I said. "Just open the bag that says PRS, you'll find the razor in one of the pockets."

    So they did cut a few slits into the speakers, and that's how the guitar tone for "You Really Got Me" came about. Unfortunately, they forgot to turn the accordion mic on, so you can't really hear it in the record, but I gotta tell ya, it was awesome. I saw Page going into another session as I was leaving, so maybe that's where the rumor started about him playing on the Kinks' date.
     
  4. Stephen Rudnick

    Stephen Rudnick New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2016
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    75
    I did session work in the 70's and 80's in NY, NJ, New England, and some in Florida and for Nashville producers. From what I went through, you had to be there, be available at a moments call, and be liked by whomever hired you. I studied and learned a lot from Tommy Tedesco's books and seeing him in clinics when he was around. I studied with a session player from NYC for 17 years and got tremendous amounts of knowledge from that.

    My father started me recording from my first lesson to tape in the '50's. I got so used to the machine being on that I never gave it any thought.

    My problem was that I was brought up to always have a steady job, and I really had no say in that, so I always worked two jobs. One was my day job, and the other was playing in bands and being in the studio. I was busy all the time and lived that way for a very long time. When I moved to Florida, my wife, who fronted bands in NJ, did NY dinner theater and voice-overs, and I were in a situation where Nashville producers came to town once a month. We did a lot of those shows. I was asked to come to Nashville by an RCA session player who was there one month, but we were settled in Florida, and newly married, so I decided not to take advantage of that option. They told my wife that if she were younger, they would take her on immediately, but being 35 at that time, her age was against her.

    I revered the session players from California more then the east coast guys, but the grass is always greener...

    I saw session work die down to a crawl with the advent of better commercial home recording technology. The industry has changed so much since I started, that today, just to remember back to the good old days, brings a smile to my face.

    If you are in the right place at the right time and given the chance that the British Invasion brought to it's players, with hard work you naturally got better. Being in the places those musicians were put in adds to the creative juices. Seeing other good players can be very motivating to those who take advantage of it and learn from it.

    That's what I did when the opportunities were there. I watched and learned. I still want to play better then I do, but I always have felt that way. So, I get up at 4:30 AM every day and practice into my Kemper for an hour prior to going to work.
     
    #24 Stephen Rudnick, Apr 6, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2016
    Woundtight, Tosca, CVS and 2 others like this.
  5. Kazz

    Kazz Kaptain Kazz of the Triple Sickle Alliance

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2015
    Messages:
    272
    Likes Received:
    77
    I may have been underselling talent a little, and I agree that no one's going to reach those heights without having a lot of talent (and usually help from other talented people). By 1968 though, Jimmy Page had I believe 5-8 years of professional experience including 2 years in a band with other talented and world-famous musicians, and he'd been learning to play for 8-10 years before that. I'm sure he put in a lot of time in studios and much more time practicing, and I don't think we should underestimate the knowledge, experience and skills he probably gained from all that time in the studio and with the Yardbirds.

    If he had tried to make Led Zeppelin I in 1963, I suspect it would have been a very different and probably much less impressive record.

    Robert Plant may be an even better example. He wrote some great lyrics as time went on, but early on he was not confident in his writing, he leaned heavily on other people even for some supposedly original material, and (despite what fans may think of it) even now I don't think he's happy with his early writing. At least that's the sense I got from listening to a book called "When Giants Walked the Earth".

    Talented people can *think* they're not talented, or produce things that make others think they're not talented just because they're not confident in their abilities or they haven't put in the time to really hone their skills yet.

    I'm not trying to take anything away from these guys though, and I completely agree that talent is very important. I think this is what it boils down to:

    A lot of talent and a lot of work can get you fantastic results. A lot of talent and a little work or less talent and more work can get you good results, but you're not likely to reach the same heights with either of those combinations.

    Even for the most talented people every project you work on, every song you hear, every trick you learn, every idea you have or hear, and every hour in the studio or even just practicing can make you better. :)
     
    LSchefman likes this.
  6. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    24,216
    Likes Received:
    19,616
    We are 100% in agreement. This is so true!

    And some of the hardest work is the networking, being out there in public, etc. in order to get opportunities to demonstrate the above!

    I've always found self-promotion the most difficult thing!
     
    Kazz likes this.
  7. Dusty Chalk

    Dusty Chalk alberngruppenführer

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    Messages:
    4,491
    Likes Received:
    2,177
    I've been listening to a lot of LZ lately.

    I love what he does with syncopation.
     
  8. Mixstar

    Mixstar Just too tired . . .

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2015
    Messages:
    690
    Likes Received:
    151
    In the '60's era there were many kids doing amazing things, Andy Fraser was 15 when he formed Free.
     
  9. CVS

    CVS Not so new member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2014
    Messages:
    1,929
    Likes Received:
    806
    On question that you did not answer - Can people with mediocre talent who put in a lot of effort become professional musicians / songwriters etc?
     
  10. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    24,216
    Likes Received:
    19,616
    Yes. I'll point to myself as an example!
     
    Kazz likes this.
  11. rugerpc

    rugerpc A♥ hoards guitars ♥A
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Messages:
    6,913
    Likes Received:
    2,684
    Anyone can learn the basics of songwriting. Analysis of hit songs alone reveals tried and true formulas for rhythm, lyrics, melody, chord progressions, bridges, etc.

    So, the average guy could take known successful strategies, pull out things almost randomly and produce a listenable song.

    But without the innovation and out of the box thinking true talent brings, those songs are gonna sound both familiar and average. I have a bit of talent, but I'm not at the level of composing stuff that would interest others.

    If by professional musician you mean the simplest definition of being paid to play, almost anyone can achieve that on some level by learning just cover songs or learning to read music. I play well enough to get paid. I could do it more if I spent more time practicing.

    But as the talent level increases, the complexity of the nuances of both playing and composing increases.

    I started as a drummer. Last night as I was driving home from a meeting, I was listening to some LZ on the radio. Sometimes I just listen to music as a whole, but I also listen to just one part of a song all the way through concentrating on, say, just the bass or keyboard or rhythm guitar.

    Last night I listened carefully to John Bonham's drumming on Nobody's Fault But Mine. The rhythms and syncopation are just absolutely unreal! If I practice hard, I'll be able to play it note for note, and on a single bass. But could I have composed that drum part? I have serious self doubts.
     
  12. CVS

    CVS Not so new member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2014
    Messages:
    1,929
    Likes Received:
    806
    Glad to hear your reply because I am not sure I will ever make it to the level of all the truly great (and talented :)) musicians out there.
     
  13. CVS

    CVS Not so new member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2014
    Messages:
    1,929
    Likes Received:
    806
    Agree with you on all counts. When I can listen to music in peace and quiet, many times I am just amazed at what I hear and have to remind myself that someone with a lot of talent composed and arranged the songs
     
  14. Mixstar

    Mixstar Just too tired . . .

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2015
    Messages:
    690
    Likes Received:
    151
    You're absolutely correct!

    And I agree with you about concentrating on a particular part of a tune, I do it all the time on my way to work.
     
  15. Mixstar

    Mixstar Just too tired . . .

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2015
    Messages:
    690
    Likes Received:
    151
    Most definitely, there's tons of it about.
     
  16. Korina Jack

    Korina Jack New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    313
    Likes Received:
    170
    I remember are the arguments at lunchtime as to who was better...jimmy Page or Eddie Van Halen. Oh the memories.
     
  17. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    24,216
    Likes Received:
    19,616
    Heh! I remember that stuff, too.

    At some point, I realized that it's not a contest, and that artists and entertainers can be talented in different ways.
     
  18. Dusty Chalk

    Dusty Chalk alberngruppenführer

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    Messages:
    4,491
    Likes Received:
    2,177
    Exactly. I live in a world where I can listen to both.
     
    Korina Jack likes this.
  19. Blues Trucker

    Blues Trucker New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    53
    Yes significantly. Figuring he was an established studio session musician who then went on to the yard birds before Zepp.
     
  20. WeFixFlats

    WeFixFlats Respect The Clave

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,369
    Likes Received:
    944
    Got a post-it-note on my DAW monitor: WWJP Do?
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice