PRS wiring phase/polarity, etc.

[boardn10]

Hey guys,

I have and really like my 2001 SC. It has gold pickups, which is not my preference since I am a nickel chrome guy but it's cool to have some variety. That said, the neck pickup is a PRS #7 with vintage raid wiring. The bridge is a Suhr Aldrich with 4 conductor wiring. The pickuos are out of phase.

Now, for my CE-22, my tech installed a PRS Tremonti bridge pickup to go with the Dragon neck pickup. These were also out of phase or had polarity issues. He said he adjusted the wiring to resolve and it wounds great. Not sure why the Tremonti is out of phase with the Dragon since both are designed to work with the PRS 5 way rotary. He said there was no need to flip the magnet in one of the pickups since it is easy enough to just switch the wires. Not sure if he switched the bridge or neck pickup wires.

This is the question and it is two fold - tone matching/pickup matching and resolving the out of phase issue.

Would it make more sense to just get a Suhr Aldrich neck pickup to match the bridge pickup or leave the #7 neck pickup and see if it is as simple as just switching the bridge pickup wiring so that the ground is now hot and the hot is now ground? This is the black and white wires. My Les Paul has a Tremonti bridge pickup with the Gibson Burstbucker Pro neck pickup and it seems to work fine. That is a rather low output neck pickup, probably similar to the PRS #7. The Suhr Aldrich neck pickup is hotter.

Not sure what to do, keep the #7 and switch around the bridge pickup wiring or install a Suhr Aldrich neck pickup.

Curious if your opinion and advice.

 

[DISTORT6]

@Lewguitar in 3…2…1…
Seriously, he can probably help you out.

 

[boardn10]

Lew is the man. I just want to be sure I'm doing it correctly switching the wires. When I ask my tech, he's says hell need to see the guitar to check.
Maybe I'll try swapping the white and black hot and ground and see if it works.
All sounds good except middle position which is out of phase and thin.

 

[Malloc]

With 4 conductor wiring yes you just switch the hot/ground to reverse phase. With single conductor you’re stuck having to flip the magnet.

There is, however, some nuance required when coil splits are involved because electrically flipping the phase will change which coil is getting shunted.

 

[boardn10]

With 4 conductor wiring yes you just switch the hot/ground to reverse phase. With single conductor you’re stuck having to flip the magnet.

There is, however, some nuance required when coil splits are involved because electrically flipping the phase will change which coil is getting shunted.

Thank you! I want to at least see if it works with the PRS #7 neck before I spend money on a Suhr Aldrich neck pickup. I rarely use the middle position but is nice to have when needed or wanted.
As long as I can get the volumes fairly even, I can see how they work together. I mostly use bridge and neck pickups on their own so maybe these will work together. Thanks for the info and confirmation.
I used to think there was something special that made a hot wire hot and a ground wire ground, hence they couldn't be switched around, lol.
Luckily I have no coil splitting in any of my guitars.

 

[Lewguitar]

Thanks! It's nice to be appreciated.

I can only tell you what I did to get my 57/08's in phase with each other after discovering they were magnetically pout of phase.

I had to make the white wire HOT and the black wire GROUND on one pickup......and the black wire HOT and the white wire GROUND on the other.

Pretty simple.

The other option is: if the pickups do not have covers you can flip the mgnet in one pickup. Just loosen the four screws on the underside of the pickup, slide it out and flip it over...like rolling over in bed.

 

[boardn10]

Thanks Lew,

My neck #7 is vintage braid, so no wire swapping. I'll try reversing the wires on the Aldrich bridge, first.
Both are gold covered.
I may just end up buying Suhr Aldrich neck pickup.
I get confused about how one can just switch the hot and ground wires. It won't impact the pickup on its own? So if that is the case, in a one pickup guitar, you could just wire up the hot or ground as either?

 

[Lewguitar]

https://imgur.com/MzIdMgn

 

[boardn10]

I am going to start by switching the Aldrich pickup's hot and ground.

 

[boardn10]

I don't know guys, the more I think about it, I should do the matched set and get the Aldrich neck. I know a lot of you guys are big fans of matched sets.

I wish say the middle position with my SC250 set is great, so clear, warm and usable for rhythm to lead. Same holds true for the Tremonti treble/Dragon bass in my CE/22.

 

[garrett]

I am going to start by switching the Aldrich pickup's hot and ground.

Bingo. Phase is not an issue as long as one of the pickups is at least two-conductor. Flip positive and negative wires. Rock out.

I don't know guys, the more I think about it, I should do the matched set and get the Aldrich neck. I know a lot of you guys are big fans of matched sets.

I wish say the middle position with my SC250 set is great, so clear, warm and usable for rhythm to lead. Same holds true for the Tremonti treble/Dragon bass in my CE/22.

Who gives a sh!t what we like? If you dig it, rock it. There is no reason buy other stuff if you're happy with what you've got.

 

[garrett]

I get confused about how one can just switch the hot and ground wires. It won't impact the pickup on its own? So if that is the case, in a one pickup guitar, you could just wire up the hot or ground as either?

It does no harm to the pickup, if that's the concern. All it does is change the direction of the signal flow through the pickup. Guitar pickups are not uni-directional, so they don't care.

And yeah on a single pickup guitar, it doesn't matter as long as we're talking something at least two-conductor.

 

[boardn10]

Bingo. Phase is not an issue as long as one of the pickups is at least two-conductor. Flip positive and negative wires. Rock out.




Who gives a sh!t what we like? If you dig it, rock it. There is no reason buy other stuff if you're happy with what you've got.

Great points. When I installed the Tremonti, I wasn't sure if I'd have to replace the neck Dragon, but the pickup worked as is.

What do you mean that as long as one pickup is 2 conductor, phase won't be an issue? You mean that just swapping the one pickuos hot and ground is all that is needed and that only timed I'd ever have to switch wires on both pickups (or flip magnets) is if both pickups were 4 condutor?

Thanks, I will give it a shot and see if the pickups work together. I not super picky about neck pickups and output is hard to gauge by resistance alone. Plus if a pickup isn't as hot as I prefer, I can just raise the pickup and or pole pieces to balance that out. I'll play around with pickup height and should know if it is going to work or not.

Thanks.

 

[boardn10]

It does no harm to the pickup, if that's the concern. All it does is change the direction of the signal flow through the pickup. Guitar pickups are not uni-directional, so they don't care.

And yeah on a single pickup guitar, it doesn't matter as long as we're talking something at least two-conductor.

Great, good to know! I wasn't worried about hurting the pickup; I just didn't realize you could flip the wires and have it still work correctly. That all makes sense and thanks for the lesson!

 

[garrett]

What do you mean that as long as one pickup is 2 conductor, phase won't be an issue? You mean that just swapping the one pickuos hot and ground is all that is needed and that only timed I'd ever have to switch wires on both pickups (or flip magnets) is if both pickups were 4 condutor?

I meant it's not an issue because swapping one of the pickup's negative and positive wires solves it. Any two pickups can be out of phase.

Where it becomes more of an issue is when both pickups are single-conductor, which is generally vintage-style P90s and humbuckers. Those usually just have a black cloth wire with a bare braided wire around it, and maybe a tap wire like PRS. In that case you don't have separate wires to flip, so you either have to do some delicate soldering of the leads at the pickup or do what most people do, which is to partly disassemble the pickup and rotate the magnet.

 

[boardn10]

Got it! That's what I thought you meant. Les had to swap wires on two guitars so I wast sure why. I would think, only one. I thought maybe you meant if both pi muos have 4 conductor, it would be different, meaning you may have to do both pickups.

I have some of my pickuos with the braided wire and that's it. Just rhe one wire with the vintage braid around it. My PRS #7 bass pickup is like that.
I thought this was 2 conductor.

 

[Lewguitar]

I am going to start by switching the Aldrich pickup's hot and ground.

You don't have the Aldrich pickup yet do you?

When you get it, hold the polepieces against those of your bridge pickup.

If they attract, they're magnetically out of phase because negative sticks to positive and you'll need to flip either the magnet or the Hot of one pickup only.

If they repel, you should be good to go and shouldn't need to do anything special in terms of wiring.

 

[boardn10]

Lew,

I have the Aldrich treble and PRS bass in the guitar. I do not have the Aldrich bass yet.

If I had the Aldrich bass pickup, I would expect that it is in phase and ready to use with the Aldrich bridge pickup since they are a set. I already know the neck #7 is out of phase but both are in the guitar.

I'll start with the wire switch, as soon as I have the time to pop it open.

 

[Lewguitar]

Lew,

I have the Aldrich treble and PRS bass in the guitar. I do not have the Aldrich bass yet.

If I had the Aldrich bass pickup, I would expect that it is in phase and ready to use with the Aldrich bridge pickup since they are a set. I already know the neck #7 is out of phase but both are in the guitar.

I'll start with wire switch.

OK. I get the picture.

Keep us posted!