P22 Trem: Purchase imminent. Any thoughts?

[jumpwing]

So I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on buying a P22 Trem; just a few more pennies in the jar and I'll have enough cash. My main purpose for posting this thread is to hear any words of wisdom from P22 Trem owners (current and former) to help decide if this really is the right guitar for me. Getting my hands on one before I buy it is not really an option, unfortunately.

Usually people who post looking for that kind of advice are asked something along the lines of "what are you expecting to get out of this guitar you're considering?" It's a fair question, so here goes:


Style of Music: Blues, Rock, R&B, Country, Gospel

My current guitar is a US Fender "Double Fat" Strat (2004) w/tremolo bridge. Generally speaking, I've been very happy with this guitar and will continue to play it regardless of what else I buy in the future. One of the things I like about it (aside from the tone) is the switching combination. It uses a pair of Seymour Duncan HBs that allow various combinations of HB and SC splits; in fact it's nearly identical to the p/u combos on a P22 or Custom. I've learned to make use of these different settings so I definitely want to keep that feature. The downside is that the SC mode brings a considerable drop in volume, but I understand 57/08s don't suffer this problem (or at least not as much).

I don't ride the trem like a stolen horse, but I do frequently use it to add a little motion to chords (a habit I picked up from idolizing David Gilmour). This means that while locking tuners and Floyd Rose machinery aren't necessary for me, a trem bridge is certainly a required feature.

For me, 22 frets is better than 24. I very RARELY go past the 18th fret anyway; and, more importantly, I want that neck p/u as far up the strings as I can get it. Two frets may be a small difference, but it's one that I notice.

I like Strats and many of my heroes play them, but I'm not hung up on having "authentic" quack in my tone. Close is good enough and, from the demos I've heard, the split 57/08 is satisfactory.

The reason I'm after the P22 instead of a Cu22 is (obviously) the piezo switching. I don't expect it to sound like a $5,000 Gibson going through $500,000 worth of studio gear, but I do expect it to sound more like an acoustic than an electric. The videos I've seen lead me to believe that it puts out a very nice acoustic tone and, to me, is a fair trade for not having to carry two guitars when gigging. I don't expect to do a lot of blending between the piezo and magnetics, but I like having that option and I may find it more useful in the future as I get comfortable with it.


One of the biggest influences in my decision to buy a PRS is Mike Ault. In the late 90s I used to watch him play at a bar in D.C. called "Capitol Blues" where he was performing with Mary Ann Redmond every Thursday night. He's a phenomenal musician and I never forgot both the quality and range of sound he got out of his guitar.


So that's it. Any thoughts on my impending purchase would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

 

[Egads]

I've got a non-trem P22 and love it (though I will be looking forthe right trem-equipped version soon myself). There really isn't a quack position, though rolling off the volume and using positions two and four are as close as the guitar will get. The 57/08s are truly fantastic sounding pups. The piezo is perfect for the acoustic parts you don't want to bring an acoustic for. If you are plugging in your acoustic anyway, it better than a lot of stock acoustic pickup setups.

I have an Singlecut Hollowbody II that is my main gigging guitar. The piezo gets used every gig and was the reason I bought the guitar. With the piezo, you really need to run it out to the PA or an acoustic amp to really appreciate the acoustic quality. If you are sending it to your electric amp, it does add some neat additional tones, but they lose a lot of the convincing acoustic qualities.

Do it! You won't regret it.

 

[László]

I recently played a PRS piezo plugged in, and I was surprised at how good it sounded. I'm not usually a fan of piezos.

It was darn good. As to the usual CU22 tones and appointments, it's certainly a world class guitar in every way.

 

[ADP]

I have one with a maple neck and ebony fingerboard that came as part of the Artist package so the sound will be a little different but in the same general area. I like Strat-style in-between sounds but I'm not someone who insists that it has to sound exactly like a Strat so in that regard I might be quite similar to you and I'm very happy with the sounds that it produces. Both position 2 and 4 are very cool combinations. I'm considering adding a push-pull pot to expand on the available combinations but, for the moment, I'm very happy with what it does. I can highly recommend it.

 

[goat-n-gitter]

I purchased a P22 stoptail a few weeks ago, and I can't say enough good about it. I have had two other piezo equipped electrics, an import Parker (which I sold) and an Epiphone set neck LP special which I modified myself with a Fisman Powerbridge/Powerchip combo. I sold the Parker because the Epi did a better job on the acoustic sounds. My P22 definitely outperforms the Epi for sounding like an acoustic (as Egads remarked, you really need to run the Piezo through a PA or acoustic amp to get the most authentic sounds). I have done an A/B comparison between the P22 and my Takamine A/E, and the solidbody doesn't come off sounding any less like an acoustic then the A/E piezo does. The only noticeable difference for me is the thinner strings on the P22 sound a little.....thinner (go figure). I run all my piezo signals through a Zoom A2 acoustic processor set to model a famous dreadnought, with a little compression and EQ.
As far as sounding like a Strat, it doesn't, but as the others stated, positions 2 and 4 get a nice chime (almost a quack) and no one but a guitarist who is nit picking will notice a difference in live performance. In return, you get what for me are the best sounding humbuckers ever! 57/08s are truly outstanding, and I've had quite a few humbuckers over the years.
Buy one - you won't be sorry.

Tom

 

[ViperDoc]

I have a PS P22 and an Artist P24 Trem. They are amazing guitars. The major difference for me in playing the piezo trem bridge is the piezo tone sizzles a bit when "palm tremming" with your playing hand. The pickup tones are out of this world. The piezo tone is unbelievable, especially when playing through an acoustic amp. This, I believe, is the only way to truly maximize your piezo tone flavor. The Fishman acoustic amp options are economical and sound amazing. I always run my piezo out to the acoustic amp and send my pickup tones through a MB Mark V. The blending available through your VOL pots is amazing. ENJOY!

 

[veinbuster]

I think you will fidn it a very good option to the strat. It will have very good range with the piezo - but cover mostly different territory.

 

[Pfloyd57]

I have a P24 Trem and it has become my main guitar. David Gilmour is my biggest influence (may be obvious) and I work the trem as you describe. The piezo gives great sounds through my acoustic amp and I love the ability to blend the magnetics with the piezo and get a wall of sound. I don't think you will be disappointed at all with a P22 Trem, but who knows, each of us have our own, entrenched individual tastes. Good luck!!!

 

[gwardealy]

This is my P22. About two minutes in i am just messing around with different pick up selections....some with the piezo mixed in. With it mixed in I find it very responsive to the volume control.

this is a gary moore riff/progression that i'm playing around with.

 

[jumpwing]

Thanks for the comments, everyone:

>Egads: I keep hearing that running the piezo through an acoustic amp or PA is the optimum way to go. Hopefully it does a decent job through a guitar amp because there are several occasions where that's the only option for me.

>LSchefman: Yeah, I've noticed that some piezo systems are lacking; and some are lacking a LOT. I think my expectations are reasonable for the P22T.

>ADP: I agree we probably have similar priorities regarding the Strat sound, so it's good to hear that some settings on the 57/08s are at least in the ballpark.

>goat-n-gitter: I usually play .11s so hopefully that will fatten up the tone a little when using the piezo. Takamine makes a good acoustic so I'm pleased to hear that the P22 can achieve a similar sound quality.

>ViperDoc: I'm starting to develop a curiosity about blending the pi and mag tones just to see if I can work up some tone sorcery. Can you expound on what you mean by "sizzle" while palming the trem?

>veinbuster: That's what I was hoping to hear. I don't expect it to be a master forgery of Strat tone, but something that leans into Strat territory is a must for me.

>Pfloyd57: If a fellow Gilmour fan has made a P24 his main guitar, that pretty much tells me what I need to know.

>gwardealy: That's pretty nice for "just messing around"! You've definitely captured Moore's vibe and even a little Steve Morse flavor around the 5:00 mark.



Just a couple of details I forgot to mention:

Clean tone - Nothing is more important to me than the quality of the clean tone from a pickup (or an amp, for that matter). I use a clean setting for a lot of the music I do so it needs to be more than just "ok". This is an area where I have mercilessly HIGH expectations from PRS.

Strings and tuning - I typically use 11s (on very rare occasions I'll use a set of 12s) and I tune to Eb instead of E. I like the results it produces, plus it helps with my singing since my range is both low and limited.

Frets - I plan to order this guitar with stainless steel frets. I've already done the research and determined this is the way to go for me based on how I play.

 

[László]

Clean tone - Nothing is more important to me than the quality of the clean tone from a pickup (or an amp, for that matter). I use a clean setting for a lot of the music I do so it needs to be more than just "ok". This is an area where I have mercilessly HIGH expectations from PRS.

Merciless? Really?

It really bugs me when folks don't do their homework and then complain about a guitar. they bought without so much as a test drive. Fergodsakes get your rear end in a car and drive someplace that has a guitar with 57/08s, if that's what it takes. See if it's for you BEFORE you buy. Or it's on you, not PRS.

Everyone's idea of a great clean tone is different.

There are also ten billion zillion frickin' videos of PRS guitar clean tones if you can't be bothered to leave your desk.

It's unrealistic to expect to know whether your expectations will be met without getting your own hands on the actual guitar you're interested in. You're certainly not going to know by asking a bunch of PRS fans who already like their guitars!

Frets - I plan to order this guitar with stainless steel frets. I've already done the research and determined this is the way to go for me based on how I play.

One piece of research you omitted: PRS does not offer stainless steel frets unless you go Private Stock. So you're SOL in that department.

 

[gwardealy]

So I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on buying a P22 Trem; just a few more pennies in the jar and I'll have enough cash. My main purpose for posting this thread is to hear any words of wisdom from P22 Trem owners (current and former) to help decide if this really is the right guitar for me. Getting my hands on one before I buy it is not really an option, unfortunately.

Usually people who post looking for that kind of advice are asked something along the lines of "what are you expecting to get out of this guitar you're considering?" It's a fair question, so here goes:


Style of Music: Blues, Rock, R&B, Country, Gospel

My current guitar is a US Fender "Double Fat" Strat (2004) w/tremolo bridge. Generally speaking, I've been very happy with this guitar and will continue to play it regardless of what else I buy in the future. One of the things I like about it (aside from the tone) is the switching combination. It uses a pair of Seymour Duncan HBs that allow various combinations of HB and SC splits; in fact it's nearly identical to the p/u combos on a P22 or Custom. I've learned to make use of these different settings so I definitely want to keep that feature. The downside is that the SC mode brings a considerable drop in volume, but I understand 57/08s don't suffer this problem (or at least not as much).

I don't ride the trem like a stolen horse, but I do frequently use it to add a little motion to chords (a habit I picked up from idolizing David Gilmour). This means that while locking tuners and Floyd Rose machinery aren't necessary for me, a trem bridge is certainly a required feature.

For me, 22 frets is better than 24. I very RARELY go past the 18th fret anyway; and, more importantly, I want that neck p/u as far up the strings as I can get it. Two frets may be a small difference, but it's one that I notice.

I like Strats and many of my heroes play them, but I'm not hung up on having "authentic" quack in my tone. Close is good enough and, from the demos I've heard, the split 57/08 is satisfactory


So that's it. Any thoughts on my impending purchase would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

what about the neck? I play a deluxe strat plus ..... The necks have a different feel. Moving to the PRS hasn't been an issue. But when i go back to the strat i seem to notice the difference more. It takes some getting used to.

The prs doesnt sound like a strat, but it gets that kind of sound. I miss the bridge pickup sound and the bridge/middle sound from the strat. But, the prs is not tying to be a strat so its not an expectation.

Clean sounds are great i think. Thats an area where you may find blending the piezo will be useful. I probably use it like that more than piezo only.

 

[Rider1260]

My take on the P22 is that it is a Thicker Bodied CU22 with a piezo so I would expect a slightly beefier tone than a regular CU22 as far as CLEAN goes that is more in your amp settings than the guitar ANY electric guitar can be clean it depends on the input signal to preamp that feed your amp hotter pickup would need the input gain set lower to produce the same clean sound.
I have been very happy with the split sounds from PRS pickups I do like the 408 best but 57/08 and the 6s split nice for me

 

[jumpwing]

Merciless? Really?
It really bugs me when folks don't do their homework and then complain about a guitar. they bought without so much as a test drive. Fergodsakes get your rear end in a car and drive someplace that has a guitar with 57/08s, if that's what it takes. See if it's for you BEFORE you buy. Or it's on you, not PRS.

I was exaggerating for comic effect. I've test driven SE models but the nearest core model is two hours away and it's not a P22. I'm responsible for someone with special needs so "dashing off" for a four-hour round trip during business hours is easier said than done. I've seen many videos on a variety of PRS models and I think they sound great. But I also have to keep in mind I'm listening to sound that's been digitized, processed, compressed, and is coming to my ears from a pair of low-grade consumer speakers. However, I've also heard PRSs played live and they sound fantastic.

Believe me, I'm not dropping $3,000+ totally in the blind (or in the deaf, I suppose), nor do I plan to make PRS solely responsible for my happiness while buying a pig in a poke.

I'm not merely asking if PRS owners like their guitars, I'm asking P22 owners for their thoughts on it within the context of how I plan to use it, the kind of music I play, and the kind of guitar I currently like.

As for SS frets, I've been assured by the dealer that they are an option. I'll confirm that again when I sit down with him to go over the order (probably in late January). If he was mistaken, or it's no longer available, then I'll likely get it anyway. SS frets are not a make-or-break detail for me.


>Rider1260: I don't know; I've played a few guitars that had a terrible clean tone, even after half an hour of tinkering with every available knob on both the amp and the guitar. Granted, these were pretty low-end models and none of them were PRS. The 57/08s I've heard (in videos) certainly don't seem to have any problems with tone.

 

[László]

I'm responsible for someone with special needs so "dashing off" for a four-hour round trip during business hours is easier said than done.

Maybe you can get away for an afternoon. It'd be worth it. But you should know that some of the dealers who post here will give you a 24 hour approval period on a new guitar, though not a special order. That might be worth checking into.

I'm not merely asking if PRS owners like their guitars, I'm asking P22 owners for their thoughts on it within the context of how I plan to use it, the kind of music I play, and the kind of guitar I currently like.

As a full time producer, I'll simply say that tone, and picking a guitar you love the sound of, is far more nuanced than you're willing to admit, and certainly more so than getting advice from complete strangers on the internet who have never heard you play, but in any case there are lots of variations in every style of music you described.

You may like redheads with nice personalities best but that's pretty general, and you still wouldn't want some forum dude to pick you out a wife on that kind of a description.

You already know that a PRS will sound different from your Strat. So I won't go into that.

As for SS frets, I've been assured by the dealer that they are an option. I'll confirm that again when I sit down with him to go over the order (probably in late January). If he was mistaken, or it's no longer available, then I'll likely get it anyway. SS frets are not a make-or-break detail for me.

That's good that you're flexible about the SS frets, because your dealer is misinformed. Here's a video you might be interested in regarding PRS' fretwork, as demonstrated by Paul. They use nickel frets that are the hardest they can get, and it's an interesting discussion:

<br>

 

[jumpwing]

We've all seen people get onto a forum to ask others to make a decision for them and I agree: it's a dumb thing to do. The advice I'm soliciting is in addition to all the work I've done in selecting this particular guitar. I don't know how many times I've had to tell someone "Man, I wish you'd asked me before you went and bought that" and I'm sure you've had the same experience. So my asking is just one of *several* steps in the selection process. It would certainly be foolish to make it the only step (or to place too much importance on it). I can assure you this is definitely not a "pick my guitar for me" or "please validate my purchase" thread.

As for the SS fret issue, I'll be clearing that up with the dealer for sure. I've seen the video you referenced and I've talked with a couple of local luthiers as well about SS vs Nickel. I had a guitar refretted with the "toughest nickel you can get" only to end up grinding through them in about 18 months. I do a LOT of bending and I'm sure I overgrip and manhandle the crap out of my strings during the process. It's a bad habit and it should be addressed, but I'm over 40 and changes like that take a lot more effort and time than they used to. However, as mentioned, it's not a religious issue for me; I'll take them if I can get them.

Just for giggles, here's another option for fret material. Minimum price is $1500 so I'm gonna have to pass on this.

I'm not gonna lie. They look pretty sweet.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Want.

 

[ViperDoc]

The only noticeable difference for me is the thinner strings on the P22 sound a little.....thinner (go figure).

My PS P22 is strung up with .011s and they make a huge difference in acoustic tones. They rock hard as well! I believe Dave Grissom is known to string his guitars with .011s also. If you opted for the TREM version with this gauge, you'd get the best of both worlds.

 

[ViperDoc]

>ViperDoc: I'm starting to develop a curiosity about blending the pi and mag tones just to see if I can work up some tone sorcery. Can you expound on what you mean by "sizzle" while palming the trem?

My PS P22 has the piezo stop tail. When palm muting, it sounds dynamically normal. My P24 has the tremelo bridge. When palm muting the tremolo bridge, it also sounds normal until you start tremming with your palm on the back of the bridge. The piezo saddles will sizzle a bit if done too abruptly. It's the way pressure is added to the piezo crystals. Piezo saddles are designed with specific string angles and pressures in mind. The PRS adjustable stop tail, for example, uses saddles that "know" the string ball end is being bent 180 degrees into its hold position underneath itself instead of being passed in the same direction to a separate bridge piece as in the traditional 2-piece LP stop tail design. The tremolo bridge uses saddles that "know" the string is not doing either of those things, but being passed in a 90 degree stop position in the tremolo bridge. It's just very specific. When you play some notes sustained, then put your picking palm on the back of the tremolo piezo bridge and give it some action, the pressure oscillates on the piezo saddles and you hear a sizzle on top of your notes that an acoustic guitar would never make, aside from the fact that an acoustic guitar also does not have a tremolo bridge! It's not a shortcoming of the guitar, it's a consequence of playing technique. If you trem mildly enough, you can avoid it.

As far as tone sorcery goes, blending the piezo and mag tones through different amps provides amazing possibilities, especially when you consider that both tones will likely pass through different effects loops. You can flavor each tonal layer independently and get some really cool, three-dimensional sounds. That's the key to the piezo tone character. You must use an acoustic amp or PA for the piezo tone. When you run both tones out of the mixed output, you lose enough control and separation in my mind to cheapen what's possible.

 

[Pfloyd57]

You must use an acoustic amp or PA for the piezo tone. When you run both tones out of the mixed output, you lose enough control and separation in my mind to cheapen what's possible.

+1

If you don't use an acoustic guitar amp or PA, you will be disappointed.