My gripe about PRS amps...ALL of 'em!

[vchizzle]

The rubber feet...or should I say hard plastic feet. I hate 'em! I can't understand why PRS would use such a hard material for them. Then you have the anti-skid texture on the bottom of them. If I used paisley cabs with heads sitting on top, I'd be worried about tearing up the top of the cab. I just don't see the benefit.

A side note, the mounting screws could be a 1/4" or so longer as well. Someone was loading my amp into a trailer or something and the foot of the amp caught on something and ripped it clean off. There's only maybe a 1/4" of screw into the wood. I ended up drilling it out, gluing in a dowel and replacing all the screws with longer ones.

Casters on the cabs would be nice too. The bigger 2x12 and 4x12 cabs, it sucks not having them or buying them aftermarket.

If that's my only complaint, I guess I'm sitting pretty good. It's a small thing, easily replaced at low cost. I am going to replace all mine with a more standard softer rubber foot. I'm not ripping PRS, everyone knows I love them. Just constructive criticism. I'm really not upset about it even if it sounds that way.

 

[László]

I think they're a hard rubber formulation of some kind (?), but in any event, I've got some tips:

I've been cutting rubber bottom mouse pads in half, and putting them fabric-side down on top of the cab, to absorb some of the vibration from the cab to the head. This also prevents the indentations and stains that even flat rubber feet can leave on tolex.

I've also used Sears plastic-foam tool drawer liners, cut and doubled up under the feet to absorb vibration, for many years, and that seems to work very well for both purposes.

Casters: I like the Trac-Loc caster system Mesa devised. I think it's important that casters are easily removable for use in different locations, such as Auralex and other studio/gig risers, where rolling off the riser would probably not be a desirable thing! Other examples are transport in a vehicle, where a 4x12 rolling around isn't good, use in road cases, etc. One advantage to the mesa design is having the greater strength of a metal attachment plate between the caster's base and the wood of the cab. This is something you don't get with permanently attached casters, or with the "pop-out" casters that just have a shaft going into a single metal thread drilled into the wood.

Instead of installing regular casters on my cabs that don't have them, I made some caster boards that I use when moving heavy cabs around. It's a workable solution if you also use nylon webbing to hold the cab in place for safety.

I'm guessing this doesn't solve your concerns fully, but it's what I do. So there's that.

 

[vchizzle]

I have foam pads under the amp that stays at home most of the time which is fine. Those of us moving gear for gigging and such, it's not a great option there. Especially on multi band bills where time is of the essence.

I stack my big mouth 2x12 on top my 4x12 and the hard feet almost slide too easy on top of the other cab where I don't feel it's secure sitting up there.

Road cases are great(my gig head is in one). Playing small & mid size clubs though, there's not always ramps going up the stage and it adds a lot of weight for a live in case. The lift off type means taking up more space. I use heavy padded covers for them now which works great. Mesa casters are the best and that's what I'll install if I get a 4x12.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I've always used an old neoprene knee brace or something, cut to fit under the feet to absorb vibration.

 

[HANGAR18]

I don't like PRS cabinets. This year at the factory I hope to spend some time in the amp/cabinet area asking someone some WTF questions. Right now I'm using Marshall and Mesa cabinets. I would like to see PRS compete in that arena a little better now that they seem to have really gotten the hang of building amps. ;P

 

[László]

I don't like PRS cabinets. This year at the factory I hope to spend some time in the amp/cabinet area asking someone some WTF questions. Right now I'm using Marshall and Mesa cabinets. I would like to see PRS compete in that arena a little better now that they seem to have really gotten the hang of building amps. ;P

Just curious what you dislike about them? I've got two, and had another, and absolutely love them. Big, warm tones - the cabs float my boat for sure.

My current cabs are the DG Custom 2x12 with rear ports, and the 2x12 Big Mouth. Phenomenal sound!

I was using mostly Mesa cabs before - also very good cabs. Oh, and Bogner with previous amps.

 

[HANGAR18]

Just curious what you dislike about them? I've got two, and had another, and absolutely love them. Big, warm tones - the cabs float my boat for sure.

My current cabs are the DG Custom 2x12 with rear ports, and the 2x12 Big Mouth. Phenomenal sound!

I was using mostly Mesa cabs before - also very good cabs. Oh, and Bogner with previous amps.

I don't doubt that you are happy with the tone you have been getting from your PRS cabinets. It also seems to me that you have figured out that an open back cabinet sounds good for inside studio recording work while closed back cabinets seem to be preferred for outdoor or large venues where projection of sound is desired. I also heard the show in Baltimore last year at the 30th anniversary shindig and all the PRS amps, cabinets and guitars sounded great! (That rock/Jazz style of music was a little strange to me, only because I had never heard anything like that before, but it all sounded fine.) So I guess I'm willing to agree that the sound is probably just fine. But, here is what has me scratching my head about PRS cabinets, in no particular order. (Keep in mind I've never seen one of these cabinets up close because no one seems to carry the cabs in stock.)

1: Pine. Why pine? What kind of pine? The low grade pine boards that I see at the lumberyard with knots all over it or the high grade white pine boards which don't have any visible knots? 3/4" Home Depot plywood is made of pine too as well as LOTS of glue (and we all know how much Paul hates glue) so are we talking about solid board pine or plywood pine? The PRS web site doesn't specify and I like to put in some serious research into whatever future purchases I might be making before I ever set foot into a store. Often times I know more about a product than the sales staff I encounter. If I am going to spend money on something, I want to know what I am getting.

2. Top Carry Straps. I don't need a college degree to know that there is something ergonomically wrong with trying to relocate a speaker cabinet by having the entire weight of the cabinet dangle at the end of my arm while my body is bent sideways into a bow shape in order to more efficiently bruise the outside of my legs, bang the crap out of every wall along my travel path and screw up the alignment of my spine while my other arm is sticking out like I'm a pro wrestler trying to clothesline someone. I'm not as young as I used to be and I don't want to be sore tomorrow because I had to move speaker cabinets today. I like those huge side carry handles that the other guys put on their cabinets. In fact, I like them so much that I even bought a brand new Marshall 1912 cabinet (a single 12" speaker rated to handle 150 watts) which had the same sized side carry handles on that little cabinet as their big 4x12 cabinets. You loose some air inside the cabinet but I love the easy carry handles.

3. Wheels. What wheels? There aren't any. I want wheels, and not just some little tiny wheels like I have on my Marshall 4x12 cabinet but I want BIG wheels like I have on my Mesa upright 2x12 slant cabinet. Big removable wheels with permanent rubber feet under the cabinets... Yea baby!

4. Strength of construction. They don't look strong. Let's say I'm in a rock or metal band and there are 9 other bands playing in this dive club this evening and the cabinet accidentally navigates down the last 4 concrete steps on its own while I'm on my way to the trailer parked out back. Is the cabinet cracked wide open or does the concrete landing slab say ouch?

5. Vinyl with spray glue adhesive. I don't actually have a problem with that, I'd actually like to see some different colors available, BUT since PRS is really big into less glue and more resonance from the assembled parts, why don't they have some beautifully crafted stained wood cabinet options available with no vinyl and spray glue adhesive?

Perhaps that will clarify where I'm coming from a bit. I'm not looking for answers here, I'll just poke around for answers later this year at the factory. The above is just FYI since you asked.

 

[CoreyT]

I think if I get an Archon later (really hoping for a 25 watt head) I am going with this cab.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RectCab212V

I do not think it would be too hard to take off the name plate and swap a PRS one onto it to have it match a PRS head?
It has the same V30s that I have in my two small rec cabs.

 

[László]

Hangar 18, It appears that your issues are mainly not about how the cabs sound, which is nearly everything to me, but in any case, several of your assumptions aren't right, so I'll address them.

Incidentally, I record indoors with closed back as well as ported and open back cabs -- I choose the cab type for how it sounds with a given amp, and if it fits the type of track I'm creating.

I'm good with any type of cab, provided that sounds great. So I'll address a few of your questions:

1: Pine. Why pine? What kind of pine?

]

It's solid pine, with finger- jointed corners, as shown above (this is not a pic of the PRS cab, I'm just showing a pic of what finger joints look like). This is without doubt the strongest/best/most traditional method of assembling wood cabinetry there is. It's also the most time-consuming to make.

Pine has a warm, vintage sound. That's why pine. The assembly with the finger-joints is stronger than what even Marshall, Mesa or Bogner do - they use rabbet joinery on their covered cabs (Mesa uses finger joints on its solid wood cabs, but they have a very high up-charge for their wood cabs that adds up to over 3 times the price of the standard cab).

I can't say how many inclusions are in the wood, I haven't disassembled my cabs. Suffice it to say that they're strong as a cab can be made, and they sound great.

Pine is also very light. And it's strong enough that they frame houses with it.

Old Fender pine cabs for their combos are still around after more than 65 years. A PRS cab would outlive you even if you neglected it.

3. Wheels. What wheels? There aren't any. I want wheels, and not just some little tiny wheels like I have on my Marshall 4x12 cabinet but I want BIG wheels like I have on my Mesa upright 2x12 slant cabinet. Big removable wheels with permanent rubber feet under the cabinets... Yea baby!

I like wheels, too. You could, of course, order the mounting plates and wheels from Mesa. I think it'd be great if PRS offered their cabs with wheels.

4. Strength of construction. They don't look strong.

Wrong.

PRS cabs are very, very strong. As I said, the cabs use the strongest joinery in the business, finger joints. There isn't anything out there that's made better, and most cabs aren't made nearly as well. This is one reason they're expensive.

5. Vinyl with spray glue adhesive.

Do you really want to pay over triple the price for a 2x12 cab?

A solid wood cab, finished to a decent finish, is incredibly labor-intensive. There's more sanding, several layers of finish, each one having to be buffed out and polished, and you have added enormous expense that most people don't want.

I don't know what else to say about this. Very few amp makers offer uncovered cabs. Mesa does, at a substantial up-charge -- the standard Mesa recto 2x12 is $649; the up-charge for solid wood cabs on a Mesa Recto 2x12 adds $1599, making the total cost $2248.

You can go to the Sweetwater site, and spec out a custom order cab, and it tells you the price of the various finish options. I'm not making this up. And remember, dealers can't offer discounts on a Mesa. So that price would stand at the $2248 figure.

So sure, you can go to Mesa and get this option, but be prepared to bleed.

 

[László]

It has the same V30s that I have in my two small rec cabs.

Actually, Mesa has custom V30s made to their own spec, as does PRS. I don't believe they're the same exact speaker.

Whether they are very similar, I can't say, because of other differences in the cabs.

 

[CoreyT]

Actually, Mesa has custom V30s made to their own spec, as does PRS. I don't believe they're the same exact speaker.

Whether they are very similar, I can't say, because of other differences in the cabs.

That is what I meant.
I had read that the V30s in my mini Rec Mesa cabs are the same as the ones they use in the 2x12s, and they were made specifically for Mesa if they bought a ton of them.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

That is what I meant.
I had read that the V30s in my mini Rec Mesa cabs are the same as the ones they use in the 2x12s, and they were made specifically for Mesa if they bought a ton of them.

This is correct, and nobody else can get these speakers. They use the older cone, and Mesa proprietary doping. No other V30s Celestion sells even use this cone.

 

[CoreyT]

This is correct, and nobody else can get these speakers. They use the older cone, and Mesa proprietary doping. No other V30s Celestion sells even use this cone.

That is what I thought, thanks.

 

[HANGAR18]

Hangar 18, It appears that your issues are mainly not about how the cabs sound, which is nearly everything to me, but in any case, several of your assumptions aren't right, so I'll address them.

Incidentally, I record indoors with closed back as well as ported and open back cabs -- I choose the cab type for how it sounds with a given amp, and if it fits the type of track I'm creating.

I'm good with any type of cab, provided that sounds great. So I'll address a few of your questions:



]

It's solid pine, with finger- jointed corners, as shown above (this is not a pic of the PRS cab, I'm just showing a pic of what finger joints look like). This is without doubt the strongest/best/most traditional method of assembling wood cabinetry there is. It's also the most time-consuming to make.

Pine has a warm, vintage sound. That's why pine. The assembly with the finger-joints is stronger than what even Marshall, Mesa or Bogner do - they use rabbet joinery on their covered cabs (Mesa uses finger joints on its solid wood cabs, but they have a very high up-charge for their wood cabs that adds up to over 3 times the price of the standard cab).

I can't say how many inclusions are in the wood, I haven't disassembled my cabs. Suffice it to say that they're strong as a cab can be made, and they sound great.

Pine is also very light. And it's strong enough that they frame houses with it.

Old Fender pine cabs for their combos are still around after more than 65 years. A PRS cab would outlive you even if you neglected it.



I like wheels, too. You could, of course, order the mounting plates and wheels from Mesa. I think it'd be great if PRS offered their cabs with wheels.



Wrong.

PRS cabs are very, very strong. As I said, the cabs use the strongest joinery in the business, finger joints. There isn't anything out there that's made better, and most cabs aren't made nearly as well. This is one reason they're expensive.



Do you really want to pay over triple the price for a 2x12 cab?

A solid wood cab, finished to a decent finish, is incredibly labor-intensive. There's more sanding, several layers of finish, each one having to be buffed out and polished, and you have added enormous expense that most people don't want.

I don't know what else to say about this. Very few amp makers offer uncovered cabs. Mesa does, at a substantial up-charge -- the standard Mesa recto 2x12 is $649; the up-charge for solid wood cabs on a Mesa Recto 2x12 adds $1599, making the total cost $2248.

You can go to the Sweetwater site, and spec out a custom order cab, and it tells you the price of the various finish options. I'm not making this up. And remember, dealers can't offer discounts on a Mesa. So that price would stand at the $2248 figure.

So sure, you can go to Mesa and get this option, but be prepared to bleed.

Marshall uses Birch plywood and finger joints for their high end 4x12 cabinets like my 1960B etc. and I would imagine that PRS does the same thing. But the high grade solid pine 2x12 cabinets with finger joints which you described does sound good to me the way you put it. Perhaps in June I'll try to talk them into making a vertical 2x12 like the Mesa version previously described.

Also, my point to the vinyl and spray glue is this... Does the cabinet get better resonance without the covering or not? If you get better tone, then spending 3 times as much is the cost of tone. I'm already spending over $3000.00 for a guitar and thousand$ for amplifiers in order to get better tone and performance, so why not follow the same practice for a cabinet? If the vinyl and spray glue don't matter then great! I'll stick to vinyl covered cabinets.

I have given some thought to building my own speaker cabinet out of some stained tone wood, with all the hardware considerations that I like, and installing some Warehouse Guitar Speakers in it. That might be easier and less expensive than trying to talk PRS into making an upright 2x12 cabinet on wheels with large side carry handles.

 

[László]

Also, my point to the vinyl and spray glue is this... Does the cabinet get better resonance without the covering or not?

Is "different" the same as "better?"

They do sound a little different, based on the few Mesa Mark amps I've heard made from hardwood, sitting next to an amp that's made from ply and covered in Tolex or fabric.

Then too, most of the recordings that folks have heard over the years have been made with cabs covered in Tolex.

I don't think whether glue is sprayed on or brushed matters though.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

H18, that was an interesting post above. I won't address every aspect of the post now, but will mention a couple things.

Top Handle- I can easily carry my PRS 2x12 can sign one hand, vs. the vertical Recto cab (which will be my next cab!) which has handles one each side and forces you to carry it in front of you which is much more awkward. Now, if someone is helping you carry it then yeah, side handles are easier.

Pine- pine sounds warmer. Many would say, more musical, vs. birch which is tighter. It is also MUCH lighter. My PRS cab is somewhere around 20 lbs lighter than the Mesa 2x vertical. That's another reason for the handle as most can handle about 50 lbs with one hand, but 75 is pushing it for many.

Back to the sound, you'll never know the real exact difference in sound of the woods unless you had identical cabs in every way, one made from each wood, and then used the same speakers in them. As soon as you change the thickness of wood, or height or depth or bracing or ANYTHING about the cab you smear your ability to hear only the differences in the wood.

It's better to just find one that sounds good and stick with it. My biggest complaint with this is that the ones in dealers all have new speakers which aren't broken in which can significantly, and usually negatively, influence the sound and thus your perspective. And it's tough to find a place to audition used cabs...

 

[vchizzle]

I love my birch big mouth 2x12. It sounds great. So much that I'm likely getting a 4x12(also birch). Big metal handle on top makes it a breeze to carry.

I do think it's a weird choice none of the cabs have wheels. On the upside I can put whatever type I want on instead of being stuck with the garbage push in type. Orange cabs don't offer them either, but that seems like more design philosophy in their case.

I can't comment on the tone of the pine cabs, but I have a hard time believing the construction is anything other than top notch.

Not worth PRS' time to do much outside of tolex(they do the paisley, fawn and plum runs-cool). The amp market is hard enough to crack anyway. That's my opinion.

Despite the thread title, this isn't meant to be a rip on PRS thread. Tones, construction and build quality are GREAT.

I just don't get the feet. It was a little bit in jest that I posted this thread cause find those feet a little curious.

 

[László]

I love my birch big mouth 2x12. It sounds great. So much that I'm likely getting a 4x12(also birch). Big metal handle on top makes it a breeze to carry.

I had a feeling you'd like it. I love the one I got, too. Seriously great sounding cabs!

I had no trouble moving it around, either. And you know what an old weakling I am!

 

[HANGAR18]

H18, that was an interesting post above. I won't address every aspect of the post now, but will mention a couple things.

Top Handle- I can easily carry my PRS 2x12 can sign one hand, vs. the vertical Recto cab (which will be my next cab!) which has handles one each side and forces you to carry it in front of you which is much more awkward. Now, if someone is helping you carry it then yeah, side handles are easier.

Pine- pine sounds warmer. Many would say, more musical, vs. birch which is tighter. It is also MUCH lighter. My PRS cab is somewhere around 20 lbs lighter than the Mesa 2x vertical. That's another reason for the handle as most can handle about 50 lbs with one hand, but 75 is pushing it for many.

Back to the sound, you'll never know the real exact difference in sound of the woods unless you had identical cabs in every way, one made from each wood, and then used the same speakers in them. As soon as you change the thickness of wood, or height or depth or bracing or ANYTHING about the cab you smear your ability to hear only the differences in the wood.

It's better to just find one that sounds good and stick with it. My biggest complaint with this is that the ones in dealers all have new speakers which aren't broken in which can significantly, and usually negatively, influence the sound and thus your perspective. And it's tough to find a place to audition used cabs...

Yea, I just don't want to pick up anything these days if I don't have to. I've moved too many tons of cargo in my life and I'm tired of it. I'd rather just grab a side handle and roll a cabinet everywhere it would ever need to go. I'd be happy if I never had to pick it up, but if I did, I have no problem asking someone to grab one end.

Hell, I sold a couple of really great guitars because the cases were just way too big and heavy (a couple of very heavy pointy guitars). That is one thing that I like about my Custom 24's etc. Thin, lighter and they travel well in gig bags.

Anyway, I'll hold off buying any more cabinets until I get a better look and understanding of the PRS cabinets. But having a sideways logo does irritate me. I've got a model 1936 Marshall 2x12 cabinet which I have sitting on its side because that is the only way to get it to fit where it needs to go. Vertical 2x12's are important to me because it gets more sound up off the ground. The volume is also more manageable. It also means not having to bend over too far to read the dials on the amp... which is important to me if no one else.

 

[László]

Anyway, I'll hold off buying any more cabinets until I get a better look and understanding of the PRS cabinets. But having a sideways logo does irritate me. I've got a model 1936 Marshall 2x12 cabinet which I have sitting on its side because that is the only way to get it to fit where it needs to go. Vertical 2x12's are important to me because it gets more sound up off the ground. The volume is also more manageable. It also means not having to bend over too far to read the dials on the amp... which is important to me if no one else.

In all honesty, the Mesa vertical 2x12s are excellent cabs, so why not get the features you want along with your serving of Tonez?

I totally understand not wanting to bend over to see the dials. On my HXDA and DG30, the dials face upwards, so there's no bending over to read them. I also agree about minimizing half space modes, and tilting it on end is one way to reduce that low end mud.

The beauty of all this stuff is that it's personal preference. The chances that PRS will custom build you a cab are exactly zero, so you should definitely look around and find what you want.