I'm not an Axe FX 2 guy

[]-[@n$0Ma☩!©]

3-Mike, which preset is best for the \m/ pickup sound clip?

 

[themike]

3-Mike, which preset is best for the \m/ pickup sound clip?

Hmmm, I would go with either "Das Metal" or the "FAS Modern". Remember , you can easily tweak the settings of the amp using the 4 black "quick knobs" on them. Each one controls something like gain, bass, mids and treb.

Are you going direct or running it through your Fender stilll?

 

[]-[@n$0Ma☩!©]

I'll call you tonight. I should have known better than to try and use an Axe FX without calling you first.

 

[themike]

I'll call you tonight. I should have known better than to try and use an Axe FX without calling you first.

 

[TFC]

Here's some quick noodling I recorded to show the kind of response you can get from the Axe II just by using the volume knob and switching pickups. Nevermind the playing or whether you like my tone or whether or not I'm in tune, etc. I just picked preset (#23, which is a Friedman Brown Eye) and commenced to noodling. I don't remember if this is the stock preset or if I modified it. I'm playing a PRS NF3. It's Seafoam, which you can probably hear if you're using really good headphones :tongue:.

https://soundcloud.com/stylurus/friedmanbe-023

 

[alantig]

Something I've been wondering about with the Kemper - I know you run it through an amp to create a model. But is that model dependent on the tone you dial in on the real amp? Meaning, is David Grissom going to get a better tone than I'm going to dial in if we're both using the same amp?

 

[TFC]

Something I've been wondering about with the Kemper - I know you run it through an amp to create a model. But is that model dependent on the tone you dial in on the real amp? Meaning, is David Grissom going to get a better tone than I'm going to dial in if we're both using the same amp?

My understanding is that the Kemper "profiles" your amp at the specific settings you have set on your amp at the time of the profile. You don't play guitar through it to profile it. The Kemper sends its own signal through your amp at those settings and does its magic. You can profile a single amp many times, using different, mics, mic placement, amp settings, etc.

And yes, David Grissom is going to get a better tone than you.

EDIT: Your profiles will be the same if you both use the same amp settings and mic placement, etc. But when he plays, he'll probably sound better :tongue:

 

[Jet Whitey]

Operator error! I've had my Ultra for almost 2 years now and NO WAY am I ever going to spend a dime on an amp again. I have 4 patches based on a Plexi....4 based on a JCM and 3 based on a Twin. Every modulation effect at my will and goodbye to back breaking load ins and load outs! Soundguys love me and so do the guys in front that are no longer being ear lazered by my 4X12's. As I said Hans.....watch it.....you go to that side you won't be coming back.........OOOOPS....that's what Dweez told me 4 years ago.....lol

 

[Blackbird]

My understanding is that the Kemper "profiles" your amp at the specific settings you have set on your amp at the time of the profile. You don't play guitar through it to profile it. The Kemper sends its own signal through your amp at those settings and does its magic. You can profile a single amp many times, using different, mics, mic placement, amp settings, etc.

And yes, David Grissom is going to get a better tone than you.

EDIT: Your profiles will be the same if you both use the same amp settings and mic placement, etc. But when he plays, he'll probably sound better :tongue:

In most cases you do have to actually play a guitar through the amp when creating a profile. The Kemper will send the test signals to determine the base amp model to start from, then after the initial profile is created you play some chords to "refine" the profile. It's for this reason that the type of guitar used to create the profile is important and will give the profile a unique tone (i.e. single coil/humbucker) Not that a profile made with an LP will sound bad played with a Strat, but for the profile to sound exactly as it sounded coming out of the source amp, it would need to be played with a similar guitar/pickup.

And yeah, there are already some artists that have made their profiles available, but unless you have their fingers it will be hard to get a better tone.
Give it time, they'll eventually be able to profile fingers

 

[]-[@n$0Ma☩!©]

Operator error!

So... either you love it or you're doing it wrong?

 

[TFC]

In most cases you do have to actually play a guitar through the amp when creating a profile...

Cool. Thanks.

 

[FrankiePRS]

I borrowed one to try on some tracks, but I just ended up going back to my Eleven Rack, which I use for quick n' dirty commercial stuff. I use tube amps for actual music I give a crap about, and always will. Most of it is tone and response, but there's also an aesthetic to it that inspires me... just something about the smell and look... I dunno. I just love the way different guitars work with certain amps; and I have many combinations dialed in.

 

[alantig]

My understanding is that the Kemper "profiles" your amp at the specific settings you have set on your amp at the time of the profile. You don't play guitar through it to profile it. The Kemper sends its own signal through your amp at those settings and does its magic. You can profile a single amp many times, using different, mics, mic placement, amp settings, etc.

And yes, David Grissom is going to get a better tone than you.

EDIT: Your profiles will be the same if you both use the same amp settings and mic placement, etc. But when he plays, he'll definitely sound so much better it'll make people question how you could be considered to be playing the same instrument :tongue:

Fixed that for you!

Thanks for the answers - I assumed that it modeled particular settings, but I wasn't sure if it tried to model the range of specific controls (say, what the treble knob on a given amp actually does).

(By the way, just to clear this up - there is no truth to the rumor that David Grissom has sent me a cease and desist letter demanding that I remove the DGT TRC from my DGT so as to completely disassociate himself from any blame for what I produce with it. Formula 409, however, did send a letter when I bought my 408 that said, "You're getting a little too close, so you'd better watch your @ss.")

 

[Dancing Frog]

I use it exclusively. I have good tube amps, Tone King's and Hughes and Kettner's. I play dinner theater shows and churches where real estate is limited. The Axe-FX II with my one or two FBT Verve 12mA provides more capability in less space at a quieter volume that's more directional than an open back small combo. You can't have an open back amp in a pit, it tends to piss people off. Plus with my damaged spine, each piece is under 30 lbs while a Twin or a 4x12 cab is about 80 lbs each. Not something I want to carry up narrow stairs.

I saw the benefits of modelling way back in the 90's and have been periodically diving into the pool every once in awhile. I have had or still have modelling products from Vox(ToneLab), Roland, Hughes and Kettner(zenTera), and Line6(Variax). While the interface on the Fractal Audio is still not the easiest that I have encountered(that would be the zenTera), the modelling is the best that I have heard. With exception of the zenTera, I have found that the first out of the box experience with modelling products is usually less than impressive due to a variety of configuration issues. I remember when I got the Ultra, I thought that it sounded like crap. In that case, I didn't realize until a couple days later that I had the stereo outputs set to "L+R sum" which meant that I had phase cancellations.

For the Axe FX II, there is the whole checklist which I recognize that many people don't have the patience to try. Other than the FRFR thing, I would say if it's not responding as you think it should for guitar volume, I would say check to make sure that you're instrument inputs are not set to L+R sum, and the levels are set correctly so that the guitar tickles the red. If that doesn't do for you, you can adjust the input impedance of the amp model, or play with the dynamics control to make it more or less sensitive.

 

[Jazzedout]

What can I say. I tried it and it's not for me. I spent a chunk of my weekend with one and it really left me wanting.

I use my guitar's volume and tone pot a lot and found the Axe FX 2 just didn't respond to them nearly as well as I need it to. I also found very little benefit to splitting the pups. Switching from the bass to the treble pup had a notable impact on tone but it, too, was disappointing. The Axe FX just seemed to ignore a great deal of the nuance and tone of the input device. Given all of the feedback I've read online, I expected more. A lot more. I agree that the technology has come a long way (especially since the ART units we played with back in the 80's) but my tube amps are still safe.

If they were cheap I'd get one to play with headphones - but only if the right tube amp was unavailable. I bought one of the little Vox headphone amps for "after bedtime" use but the sound quality was nowhere good enough to keep me interested. The Axe FX 2 wasn't that bad by a long shot. Something in between would be great.

Anyone else have this experience?

Hans, do you remember roughly the settings you had? To me it sounds like you had the gain waaaayyy to high than you would with a normal amp. Even with my regular amp/effects setup,when I have the gain way up and a couple of OD/dist pedals in front, it does what you describe.
The trap that many people fall with moddelers is that because you can have a ton of gain without so much noise and/or volume, they crank it up and play.
I have an eleven rack and use it like I would use an amp. No extreme settings and not a ton of gain, even for metal stuff. It responds quite well to the volume control and 5-way of my Cu24 with HFS/V-Bass pickups.
My 0,05p...

 

[Jet Whitey]

So... either you love it or you're doing it wrong?

No bud.....Just busting your chops!It's just the way you had it set up with your Twin. It's really going to sound like a$$. To really use the piece to it's full potential and hear it's dynamics you need to drill into all the cab and mic sims. I had the same initial response to the Axe that you did when I first got it. A few weeks of forum browsing and finally getting past my MiDi phobia, then I was a happy camper. I honestly can't see myself changing back to amps. As far as the headphone thing for late night Wango Tango and not waking up the ladies.......I'd probably save the $1500.00 and get an Eleven Rack. Seriously good piece as well.....just dial back the gate and things really start to sound great.

 

[studio66]

No bud.....Just busting your chops!It's just the way you had it set up with your Twin. It's really going to sound like a$$. To really use the piece to it's full potential and hear it's dynamics you need to drill into all the cab and mic sims. I had the same initial response to the Axe that you did when I first got it. A few weeks of forum browsing and finally getting past my MiDi phobia, then I was a happy camper. I honestly can't see myself changing back to amps. As far as the headphone thing for late night Wango Tango and not waking up the ladies.......I'd probably save the $1500.00 and get an Eleven Rack. Seriously good piece as well.....just dial back the gate and things really start to sound great.

+1
Its a complete mind shift
These boxes are tweak fests and it can get a bit surgical to reveal its potential in your specific set up.
I will also 2nd the nod for the Eleven Rack....I've had mine since release (some 5 or 6 years) very good and much less tweaking.I can share a quick 3 step tweak with the 11R thats puts you in the zone very fast.
I'm an home guy only at this point and have great amps...Marshall,65 Amps,Fender....but literally never turn them on now.I play through studio monitors in my set up (will explain) and my buddy who is using the Axe Fx plays through a Matrix power amp and Avatar cab.
I haven't seen to many success stories running straight into an amp like your trying...I'm sure its possible but I dont believe that thats what these were designed for.These boxes were designed to simulate many amps (and more) and require a some what clean or neutral platform to best present their information.
That now puts you smack dab in the FRFR vs Cab debate...another black hole of research and testing
Ultimately its what are your needs....do you play out....do you play loud....are you old school guitar volume controller or scenes/patches?
I,as mentioned,play at home only now.I have a very understanding wife and am able to play at reasonable volumes anytime I like.I dont particularily enjoy loud in a small space so I came up with this...

Its essentially a Pro Tools 10 set up Digi003 handles the I/O...the Tascam CD200i drops the iPod into the 003 for a jam buddy so to speak.The Fishman Aura Spectrum brings the acoustics into the 003.The Kemper handles the electrics/bass....all monitored through the Mackie HR824mkIIs.
(Toontracks Superior Drummer and EZKeys fill out the VI's..M-audio midi keyboard for those inspired moments).
There is literally nothing I cant do from a simple arms reach and the tones are stellar...the purists will still scoff but...it works for me.
I can jam,record or mindlessly noodle at any volume at at anytime.
(not sure how the DGT skipped out on getting in the pictures)

They are not for everyone and again its a matter of determining your need or end goal....then putting in the work to sculpt and tailor it to your system.For me its the Kemper,others the Axe Fx 2 and the Eleven Rack....
Digital is here and in my humble opinion its finally starting to deliver on its promise

 

[Blackbird]

+1
They are not for everyone and again its a matter of determining your need or end goal....then putting in the work to sculpt and tailor it to your system.For me its the Kemper,others the Axe Fx 2 and the Eleven Rack....
Digital is here and in my humble opinion its finally starting to deliver on its promise

Ah, I remember seeing the "Happy Desk" on the KPA forum. I can't wait to sell my toaster and get a rack. Great setup, nice to see you here!

 

[studio66]

Ah, I remember seeing the "Happy Desk" on the KPA forum. I can't wait to sell my toaster and get a rack. Great setup, nice to see you here!

The desk is still "Happy"... I dont generally have much insight to offer here so I dont post a lot but I have been knee deep in this stuff the last 5 or 6 years so I thought I would chime in.
Oddly I think of modelling the same way I think of PRS...cutting edge and forward thinking whereas my other two fav's (pictured above) strike me as two dinosaurs laughing about that ice rumour that keeps going around

 

[]-[@n$0Ma☩!©]

So I spent about 2 more hours playing with the Axe FX 2 - this time in studio headphones (Sony MDR-7506). While I really enjoyed the stereo effect and the crystal clarity, my 2nd impression is much the same as the 1st. The sounds weren't that different from going straight into the blackface Twin. I don't think people understand how clear that amp really is.

When it comes to amp modeling, I still prefer the real deal over the Axe FX. But... I had a lot of fun playing with the sounds that were unique to the unit and deliberately synthetic. When the Axe FX 2 wasn't trying to emulate/simulate something real, I liked it a lot. With a few of the amp models I could turn the guitar volume all the way down to 2 or 3 before there was an perceptible difference in tone. Split vs full-bucker tone changed very little but it did extract some of the mud in single-coil mode. I heard a lot of modulation and other artifacts in single notes that were allowed to ring out - usually in the 1st second or two. And most importantly, the pickup seemed to have very little impact on the overall tone. To such a degree, in fact, that I'm not going to bother using the Axe FX 2 for a \m/ pickup tone sample. It's not a clear indication at all. I could get you nearly the same tone from an McCarty Archtop pickup with that unit.

If the Axe FX 2 had a giant advantage over a tube set-up, it would be the fact that you can take a basic guitar and get a lot of good (but not always accurate) tones. If I were in a cover band and I needed a lot of different tones (especially synth sounds) in a highly mobile package, I'd own one - but I would not use it to replace a real tube amp.