Archtop Pickups Specs

[NickFitz]

Hi all,

I wonder if some one is able to help with some specifics of the McCarty Archtop pickups that used to come as standard in the Hollowbody II and Archtops guitars back in the late 90s/early 2000s. I have seen a few people mention that they were underwound versions of the McCarty pickups and there’s a really great image of a spec sheet from the mid 90s and I wonder how true that is? So would the archtops have had alnico 4 magnets in both neck and bridge like the McCarty’s? Has anyone ever figured out the resonant peaks or the inductance? I’ve seen the resistance in sellers images range from 6k to over 7k for the neck so that doesn’t seem the most reliable metric to follow!

Any help would be hugely appreciated! Thanks.

 

[SinSir]

6.2 neck
7.0 bridge

The couple spec sheets floating around here that are pretty accurate besides individual pickup variance and changes over the years. PRS considers.5 variance within spec per a recent email that had to do with the changes in 5708 specs.

 

[NickFitz]

6.2 neck
7.0 bridge

The couple spec sheets floating around here that are pretty accurate besides individual pickup variance and changes over the years. PRS considers.5 variance within spec per a recent email that had to do with the changes in 5708 specs.

Thanks for the reply. I have the spec sheet from the mid 90s that’s floating around. Would it be accurate to assume the archtops were underwound McCarty’s with alnico 4 magnets in neck and bridge as the spec sheet suggests? The resistance measurements aren’t super helpful as my understanding is they can change with different temperatures? That’s why I’m wondering if anyone has ever measured the inductance or would be able to measure the inductance to get a better steer on what materials would have been used?

 

[SinSir]

Thanks for the reply. I have the spec sheet from the mid 90s that’s floating around. Would it be accurate to assume the archtops were underwound McCarty’s with alnico 4 magnets in neck and bridge as the spec sheet suggests? The resistance measurements aren’t super helpful as my understanding is they can change with different temperatures? That’s why I’m wondering if anyone has ever measured the inductance or would be able to measure the inductance to get a better steer on what materials would have been used?

Welcome. Yes there's a little variance with temperature but it's not going to be a wild crazy swing. Also, correct ohm doesn't tell everything but it's helpful to know and tells us some.

The archtop specs aren't on the older hand written spec sheet. They're on the newer typed one with less detail that includes the 5708. So we're taking 2008. Unless you're referring to another spec sheet I haven't seen. If so would love to see it. I'm a geek for this stuff and a serial pickup swapper.

As far as an underwound McCarty. That's a big underwind. McC is 8 bass and 9 treble for spec. Not saying they aren't based on them somehow, but still quite a bit different. I've always considered the McC the grandfather for the PRS PAFish varieties we have in the 5x/xx pickups of today. PRS uses A2 and A4 mags a lot. It's more than likely one of those. I'd probably guess A2 but wouldn't know for sure. Purely guessing. Could be either.

Inductance is a relatively new term talking PRS pickups with the introduction of the term TCI. I don't think you'll find much in that department. There's been some people taking they're own measurements and tests of pickups, but I don't recall the archtops being one of them.

 

[NickFitz]

Welcome. Yes there's a little variance with temperature but it's not going to be a wild crazy swing. Also, correct ohm doesn't tell everything but it's helpful to know and tells us some.

The archtop specs aren't on the older hand written spec sheet. They're on the newer typed one with less detail that includes the 5708. So we're taking 2008. Unless you're referring to another spec sheet I haven't seen. If so would love to see it. I'm a geek for this stuff and a serial pickup swapper.

As far as an underwound McCarty. That's a big underwind. McC is 8 bass and 9 treble for spec. Not saying they aren't based on them somehow, but still quite a bit different. I've always considered the McC the grandfather for the PRS PAFish varieties we have in the 5x/xx pickups of today. PRS uses A2 and A4 mags a lot. It's more than likely one of those. I'd probably guess A2 but wouldn't know for sure. Purely guessing. Could be either.

Inductance is a relatively new term talking PRS pickups with the introduction of the term TCI. I don't think you'll find much in that department. There's been some people taking they're own measurements and tests of pickups, but I don't recall the archtops being one of them.

Interesting! Basically I’m a huge Mike Einziger fan from the band incubus and I’m trying to work out if he kept his Archtop pickups in his Archtop guitar at the time (around 2000). I saw a post from someone who was waiting on a custom model of this guitar from PRS and they seemed to confirm that a) it had the stock archtops when it left the factory and b) they were underwound McCarty’s

I have a friend that makes pickups and he kindly made me a neck pickup based on the spec sheet from the mid 90s (assuming they were underwound McCarty’s) but they just aren’t sounding the same. I have the same amp, speakers and mic that he was using at the time but I have the pickup in an SE Hollowbody II as the archtop he was using comes up vary rarely for sale and can be pretty expensive these days! Its driving me nuts and the only thing I can think is that we haven’t got something quite right with the pickup but I don’t know what

 

[gush]

I think I have a set of archtops but I haven't put them in a guitar so all I can do is measure impedance.

 

[NickFitz]

I think I have a set of archtops but I haven't put them in a guitar so all I can do is measure impedance.

Awesome! Am I totally wrong in thinking that a fairly cheap LCR meter like the Proster BM4070 would measure inductance? I seem to have seen a couple of pickup makers use one to show inductance? (By no means am I expecting you to buy one just to test a pickup for me, just curious if I have that right?!)

 

[garrett]

My set from 2002 were 7.2k bridge and 6.5k neck.

I'd assume mags were A4, but could've been A2. I did a magnet swap on the neck pickup to A5 and it really woke that pickup up. It was such a good set with that mod.

I haven't had tools to measure inductance, but they're traditional pickups, so I think it's safe to assume they're in range of other PAF types with 42 gauge wire and similar resistance.

 

[NickFitz]

My set from 2002 were 7.2k bridge and 6.5k neck.

I'd assume mags were A4, but could've been A2. I did a magnet swap on the neck pickup to A5 and it really woke that pickup up. It was such a good set with that mod.

I haven't had tools to measure inductance, but they're traditional pickups, so I think it's safe to assume they're in range of other PAF types with 42 gauge wire and similar resistance.

Ah that’s interesting, thank you! I’m mainly after nailing a neck tone and the wind my friend managed to achieve was 6k for the neck - very even on both coils. With the alnico 4 it seems to have quite a lot of energy in the 3k kind of region whereas the tone I’m going for has a lot more in the 700hz to 1k region. I wonder if a few more turns on each bobbin and an alnico 2 would get me closer to that region?! But I have no idea if that would really make any difference?!

 

[garrett]

Interesting! Basically I’m a huge Mike Einziger fan from the band incubus and I’m trying to work out if he kept his Archtop pickups in his Archtop guitar at the time (around 2000). I saw a post from someone who was waiting on a custom model of this guitar from PRS and they seemed to confirm that a) it had the stock archtops when it left the factory and b) they were underwound McCarty’s

I have a friend that makes pickups and he kindly made me a neck pickup based on the spec sheet from the mid 90s (assuming they were underwound McCarty’s) but they just aren’t sounding the same. I have the same amp, speakers and mic that he was using at the time but I have the pickup in an SE Hollowbody II as the archtop he was using comes up vary rarely for sale and can be pretty expensive these days! Its driving me nuts and the only thing I can think is that we haven’t got something quite right with the pickup but I don’t know what

If you REALLY want to match the Morning View sounds, I think the Archtop guitar is the only option. It sounds quite a bit different from the Hollowbody. Fatter, more like an acoustic. Mike's best tone IMO. I was so bummed when he switched to playing Jazzmasters.

The SE HBII captures most of the vibe of the Core HBII, but the Archtop is just a different animal.

Closest guess at recreating the pickups would be brass baseplate. However many winds of 42 gauge per coil to hit mid 6 and low 7 for resistance. Try A4 and A2 to see what sounds best to you. Nickel plated nickel silver covers.

You'd have to guess at the balance of the coils. Since the originals didn't split you'd have to do some surgery to measure them individually.

 

[JasonE]

This is an interesting conversation to read. I love digging into things like this.

 

[NickFitz]

If you REALLY want to match the Morning View sounds, I think the Archtop guitar is the only option. It sounds quite a bit different from the Hollowbody. Fatter, more like an acoustic. Mike's best tone IMO. I was so bummed when he switched to playing Jazzmasters.

The SE HBII captures most of the vibe of the Core HBII, but the Archtop is just a different animal.

Closest guess at recreating the pickups would be brass baseplate. However many winds of 42 gauge per coil to hit mid 6 and low 7 for resistance. Try A4 and A2 to see what sounds best to you. Nickel plated nickel silver covers.

You'd have to guess at the balance of the coils. Since the originals didn't split you'd have to do some surgery to measure them individually.

I’d love to see a back to back comparison of the Hollowbody II vs the Archtop as in my mind, they should sound pretty similar with the same pickups in but sadly there doesn’t seem to be anything out there comparing these 2 out there that I can find.

Brass baseplate may be an interesting one as the current pickup uses nickel instead

 

[Bogner]

Interesting Talk For Sure But In Reading Through This Thread I Still See A Lot Of Variables That Could Radically Alter Things. No Two Guitars Or Amps Are Alike. Add To That The Speaker And Cabinet And Player And Volume And Location, Etc And The "Same Things" Can All Of A Sudden Sound Very Different.

Still I Get The Hunt And I Am A Fan Of It Myself. I Do Wish PRS Had More Official Pickup Info Floating Around To Help Make The Process A Little Easier.

 

[NickFitz]

Interesting Talk For Sure But In Reading Through This Thread I Still See A Lot Of Variables That Could Radically Alter Things. No Two Guitars Or Amps Are Alike. Add To That The Speaker And Cabinet And Player And Volume And Location, Etc And The "Same Things" Can All Of A Sudden Sound Very Different.

Still I Get The Hunt And I Am A Fan Of It Myself. I Do Wish PRS Had More Official Pickup Info Floating Around To Help Make The Process A Little Easier.

Hahaha, yep! Sometimes I feel like I’m on to something and then I compare it to the original and it shows there’s something lacking and it’s driving me nuts figuring out what it is. I was a firm believer in get the right speaker and microphone and you’re most of the way there. What I didn’t realise is the last 20% will send you to the looney bin trying to achieve it

 

[JasonE]

I’d love to see a back to back comparison of the Hollowbody II vs the Archtop as in my mind, they should sound pretty similar with the same pickups in but sadly there doesn’t seem to be anything out there comparing these 2 out there that I can find.

Brass baseplate may be an interesting one as the current pickup uses nickel instead

@Jo- You have an Archtop as well as HBII, correct? Any comparisons you can throw in here?

 

[gush]

Awesome! Am I totally wrong in thinking that a fairly cheap LCR meter like the Proster BM4070 would measure inductance? I seem to have seen a couple of pickup makers use one to show inductance? (By no means am I expecting you to buy one just to test a pickup for me, just curious if I have that right?!)

I would think even a cheap multi meter would be ok.

I use fluke meters for work so I have several available to useanytime.

 

[JasonE]

I would think even a cheap multi meter would be ok.

I use fluke meters for work so I have several available to useanytime.

I finally broke down and bought a Fluke last month. I figured with the pedal work I have been getting into it was time to get something a little better that did all of the measurements that I wanted. It is a great meter.

 

[Bogner]

Hahaha, yep! Sometimes I feel like I’m on to something and then I compare it to the original and it shows there’s something lacking and it’s driving me nuts figuring out what it is. I was a firm believer in get the right speaker and microphone and you’re most of the way there. What I didn’t realise is the last 20% will send you to the looney bin trying to achieve it

This Is All Very True...LOL. The Smaller The % You Are Trying To Get The Harder It Is To Get As Well. The First 50% Is Easy. The Last 5% Is Virtually Impossible.

 

[Gtrbldr]

6.2 neck
7.0 bridge

The couple spec sheets floating around here that are pretty accurate besides individual pickup variance and changes over the years. PRS considers.5 variance within spec per a recent email that had to do with the changes in 5708 specs.

Funny, you had the same email exchange I had last month??? (No kidding, I asked about the extremely low reading of the bridge 57/08 in my mcc smokeburst)

 

[Jo-]

@Jo- You have an Archtop as well as HBII, correct? Any comparisons you can throw in here?

To get Mikey’s sound from Morning View era you really do need the Archtop. They just have their own super thing going on.

I didn’t think that Mike used the stock Archtop pickups. I thought they were Seymour Duncan’s (jb & 59???)

I love my Archtops for incubusy stuff. And the stock Archtop pickups were always fine with me. I especially love that Archtop neck pickup and wished they were still the standard.