A lunchbox-sized Archon 10W?

[rugerpc]

Probably my fault too.

I believe that scaling a 100 watt circuit or even a 50 or 25 watt circuit all the way down to just 10 watts presents more tone compromises than I believe PRS is willing to make.

Just having a hard time getting that point across...

 

[kawaivpc1]

That Mesa Mark V 25W mini head sounds more than good enough for recording and practicing at home studios. If you guys think that's not even enough, I can't understand that...

If PRS guys can even make something that is close to that, I would appreciate it.

That Mesa Mark V 25W mini head still sounds better than other bigger PRS amps in some ways.....

 

[rugerpc]

Now we're getting somewhere.

Yes, tone is subjective. I like the headroom larger amps have for better note bloom and richer harmonics.

Those things would be lost in scaling back, so I'd rather deal with the bulk (and expense) of more robust offerings.

 

[László]

That Mesa Mark V 25W mini head sounds more than good enough for recording and practicing at home studios. If you guys think that's not even enough, I can't understand that...

It's fine for what it is, but a 25 watt amp, including that one, usually has limited headroom. That can be either an advantage, if you want to overdrive an amp early, or a disadvantage, if you want a lot of dynamic range clean or overdriven.

Certainly it's good enough for practicing or recording. What isn't? We all know stories of artists who used very small amps to great effect on classic records.

But the question of whether it's going to give a player the tone he or she is after is certainly a personal one. And of course, everything depends on a player's technique and expectations about how an amp will respond to our playing.

You compared it to the Mark V 90 watt amp, an amp I'm very familiar with since I owned one. The 90 Watt Mark V, at full tilt, can produce tones that can be heard on recordings that the 25 watt version can't do. However, the 90 Watt Mark V could also be switched down to as low as 10 Watts. So there is an advantage to the larger amp, it's simply more capable.

My Lone Star 100 Watt amp can do things that the Lone Star Special, a 30 watt amp, can't do. It can also be switched to 50 and 10 watts. So I think the advantage is with the higher power amp - it has much better headroom than the Special. And that matters on both clean and dirty tones.

Again, that may not be what you want, but I think it's an advantage to have that capability.

For that matter, before I had my 30 Watt HXDA, I had a 50 Watt HXDA. The 50 could do things the 30 can't do, and there are many sessions I do when I wish I'd kept the 50. It could drive a speaker cabinet differently, and it was a bit more expressive for that reason. It had a looser, "about to bust loose" feel that the 30 Watt version can't touch.

When it comes to small amps - clearly that's today's trend - each of us is going to bring his or her expectations, experience, needs, wants, and ideas to bear. 25 years of studio experience has led me to prefer more powerful amps and what they do. YMMV.

Then again, my DG30 is a very loud amp that can be set up with a lot of headroom, and the same can be said of an AC30. So...whatever works for someone is good.

 

[Alan Manning]

I thought the PRS stereotype was that it was a doctor's and lawyer's guitar.
Anyway...it doesn't require a rocket scientist or brain surgeon to comprehend (or hear) the differences (between higher vs lower wattage amps) and I'm pretty sure we have both of those occupation represented here...along with some excellent musicians.

We'll as it happens I'm a Bricklayer (Working Class Hero & Proud of it) I understand the point made what with technology improving all the time ( but that's for the future ) I also understand Paul's reasoning on quality which is why I love the product . I do believe you get what you pay for. Carry on Paul. !!!

 

[elvis]

Did this all happen before the Archon 25/13 came out?

 

[bodia]

Oh no, long after

 

[13bats]

I suspect that PRS is getting a kick out of how much interest there is in this Tremonti Archon based amp line

I think the fact that one guy was basically saying the Name of the new line (albeit incorrect) around Namm and it disappeared and the fact that someone ,posted they saw the protos with flamed faceplates on a factory tour in September supports my dealers claims

There is an amp that will replace the SE line that is made overseas and it is based on the Archon.

My guess on the delayed release is that Mark Tremonti is busy in studio for Alterbridge 5 coming in May and they wanted to have him for the videos and marking shoots .so timing wasn't right

 

[Ovibos]

Stupid question: when a 2x12 cab weighs 50-80lbs, and a 4x12 in the neighborhood of 100lbs+, why would you care what a head weighs? You're already lifting more than that.

I ask this as a formerly semi-gigging amateur bass player, who played a smallish (2x12) rig and schlepped it up and down stairs, agog that guys would show up with their 8x10 Ampeg SVT refrigerators.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Math. It's still more total weight to carry, and while you have have two guys carrying a big cab, you're going to carry the head by yourself. I mean, I'm only speculating. I just bought the heavyest amp I've ever owned.

 

[bodia]

Math. It's still more total weight to carry, and while you have have two guys carrying a big cab, you're going to carry the head by yourself. I mean, I'm only speculating. I just bought the heavyest amp I've ever owned.

That ain't no Swiss cheese. I almost busted a nu7 carrying it down to box it up!

 

[Ovibos]

Math. It's still more total weight to carry, and while you have have two guys carrying a big cab, you're going to carry the head by yourself.

I've never had anyone help me carry a cab. You must've had nicer bandmates than I.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I've never had anyone help me carry a cab. You must've had nicer bandmates than I.

Obviously I don't know the age and physical condition of everyone here. I'm over 50 but nobody would need to help me with anything.

That ain't no Swiss cheese. I almost busted a nu7 carrying it down to box it up!

You need to start working out so we can both go over to Lestobans to move his amps around for him. (You can distract him while I look for the Northern Lights guitar! )

Edit.: Wait, that last part was supposed to be in a private message.

 

[bodia]

You need to start working out so we can both go over to Lestobans to move his amps around for him. (You can distract him while I look for the Northern Lights guitar! )

Edit.: Wait, that last part was supposed to be in a private message.

Yea, I fell off that wagon a couple (or 4) years ago when I stopped playing ball. Need to get back at it. I know Les is a self professed geezer, but if we're going to make a clean break I'll need to put a little work in on the rock pile.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I still got some wheels for an old dude. What kind of ball?

And you know what they say. It's the slow one that gets caught. You don't have to be the fastest, just faster than the other guy.

 

[bodia]

I still got some wheels for an old dude. What kind of ball?

And you know what they say. It's the slow one that gets caught. You don't have to be the fastest, just faster than the other guy.

12" softball.....at this point, creaky knees would make me the slow guy

 

[JustRob]

I'm trying to hold out and see if PRS is going to offer something. I'm intrigued by the NAMM videos I've seen of the Hughes and Kettner tubemeitster deluxe.
40W. Variable built in attenuator. Cabinet emulation with recording out.
Throw these features in an Archon and my decision is made. PRS all day.

 

[elvis]

Having a built in cabinet emulator would absolutely push this over the top, though it would have to be a really good one. Currently I use a Palmer PDI-09 for FOH. It would have to be that good. I've heard that the H&K emulator is not great, based on the Red Box.

 

[Huggy Love]

This is an interesting thread, I've finally heard an Archon recently and was very impressed with the overall tone. This lunchbox debate applies to cats like me that aren't gigging too much anymore and want to be able to get a decent tone at home, and with some having variable wattage settings puts them into the "bedroom" amp category. A step even further are the 1-5w amps & micro heads that are mainly for apartment jamming and not really suited for legit recording, but the 25w lunchbox amp with variable wattage concept covers small gigs, recording and jam sessions fairly well and for PRS to enter that market I don't frown on at all. In fact I'd look at it really hard and probably get a massive case of GAS.

As for the headroom issue in clean channel, that's the big glitch in my situation. I've got a 50w rig that sounds like heaven for jazz & clean stuff but is too loud in the gain channel, so I have to plug into my POD to go all cruncho and reminisce of my hard rocking days, or ape some Santana/DiMeola stuff on the headphones. It works, just isn't very fulfilling. The 25w lunchbox heads I've tried didn't have the bottom that my 50w has in the gain channel either but were pretty good, enough that I've considered getting one. The clean channel on the other hand of the 25w stuff has little bottom and sounds a little boxey when turned up to do a jazz type solo, that's my dilemma, keep the 50w for jazz and get a 1-5w for shredding? Sell the 50w & get a 25w w/variable wattage? Lot's of options but if PRS was in the fray, it would probably be a front runner in my choices.

I think the power soak thing is the real answer, they should have it on *ALL* the amps and then *ANY* unit can do the home practice thing along with the legit gigging and recording thing, a few extra circuits & parts couldn't cost that much. I'd buy one but the key is to have separate power attenuators for each channel so you can have the clean channel sound great and the lead channel not tearing the eardrums of all the dogs on your block.

 

[elvis]

I have a Royal Atlantic with per-channel attenuators. It's really great, actually. I doubt you will see other amps with such features, though. I have previously proposed a similar idea with a 50W clean channel and a 10W or 25W crunch channel. Mesa has the multi-Watt thing, but in my experience, running at reduced power always seems to make the crunch channel too smooth and mushy. I prefer to have the headroom there as well. Happily, the Archon really seems to hold its tone at low volume. I run my 100 in 50W mode at home with a volume control in the loop. Set for very low volume it still kicks serious butt and has huge lows.

I use a G System, so my loop volume is the output level of that. The amp sounds surprisingly good even with -35dB attenuation. I think it's because it starts out so clear and punchy and aggressive, so even if the power tubes are barely ticking over, it still has some guts.

My experience with a variety of 25/10W amps has been that they just don't have the lows. Even EL34 isn't great. I am clearly a 6L6 guy. Interestingly, the Archon 25 doesn't use EL84, it uses 5881 (which is a lower power 6L6), so the lows don't get chopped off like in an EL84 amp. The combo cab makes it sound boxy, but I suspect it could have pretty good lows with an extension cab.