Archon Clean Ch "tone" or frequency response graph

[shinksma]

TL;DR version: anyone have any idea how the Archon Clean Channel Frequency Response (i.e. the "tone" vs "flat") compares to other well-known amps?

And has anyone found an "amp-sim-in-a-box" pedal that comes close to what the Archon does, tonally? (Not a full-blown device like a Kemper.) Would a Mesa Boogie emulator/simulator be the closest, since I'm pretty sure no-one has released a "PRS amp in a box" pedal?

Long version:

Recently I posted in the Guitars sub-forum here that a band practice held earlier this week was quite enjoyable because my Silver Sky sounded really really good, and I just melted into the music and tone, and even the rest of the band commented on how good it sounded.

Signal path was: Core SS -> Horsemeat -> MojoHandFX DMBL -> Boss RV-3 -> Archon 50 Combo (US build)

Last night's practice was the same guitar through my FlyRig (with amp and cab sims built-in) into a Fishman LoudBox acoustic amp, because that gets the closest to a mini-PA for me. It was good, and I've used that combo a lot for some small-footprint easy-in/easy-out gigs (often just gong straight from FlyRig to mixing board and thus out to PA and monitors), but not nearly as good as the pedals into the Archon sounded earlier this week with that guitar.

I tried comparing and tweaking again today during my coffee breaks. The FlyRig just couldn't get the same overall tone. It could sound good, but not the same.

I then tried the pedalboard through an amp-sim pedal (one of those little Joyo Clean Glass (Fender) pedals). I could get it closer, but I think the freq response model is just not tweakable enough - it's a little too "honky" still. I feel like the Archon has really scooped high-mids and maybe even mid-mids, but the low mids are still there, but leaves a good mount of nice bass and treble.

I tried it through a Joyo Orange-amp emulator (Orange Juice) and that had a whole lot more mids, so not the right direction at all.

I recognize the Archon is a "real tube amp", and there just might be some je ne sais quoi that about the tone that is not totally reproduceable using simply amp-sim pedals. I'm just trying to minimize the times where lugging the amp is not really feasible/practical/sensible, like an upcoming private festival we're playing one 45 min set (but also running sound for the other bands/musicians the rest of the afternoon/evening), where miking the Archon will be just overkill for what we're doing.

So I'm curious whether there is some other amp-sim pedal (maybe the Joyo "Boogie" would be an economic example) that gets closer to the Archon.

Maybe PRS could release an Archon amp modeler simulator pedal. OK, so that's never goon happen...

So...thoughts?

 

[László]

I don't know whether this is worth checking out or not.

Universal Audio has three amp in the box pedals; one that emulates a black panel '65 Fender (not sure which model), one that emulates an AC30, and another that emulates a '55 Tweed.

They're evidently based on UA's amp sim technology, which in UAD plugin form is the best I've tried of MANY plugins. Probably worth a look.

I don't know what they cost.

Here's a quick demo of the '65:

An iZotope bundle I just got has a new version of Guitar Rig that uses AI modeling. I haven't tried it yet, I generally use that stuff with synths, but I'll try with guitar and report back.

 

[shinksma]

That's a nice sounding amp sim pedal, but not quite the Archon Clean sound I'm looking for, I think. I dunno, maybe I need to try listening back-to-back with the demo and my Archon clean with a similar input (tele apparently...).

 

[TroyBaer]

The Archon clean channel seems like a standard Fender BF/SF style circuit with some tweaks to set the center of the tone stack's mid dip a little higher than the usual Fender values.

 

[shinksma]

The Archon clean channel seems like a standard Fender BF/SF style circuit with some tweaks to set the center of the tone stack's mid dip a little higher than the usual Fender values.

I realized something after I read this: I agree the Archon clean channel does sound somewhat Fender-ish, especially with the bright switch off - but I had the bright switch on, and that is the tone I'm chasing. I'm not sure exactly what that switch does to the EQ. (Yeah yeah, it makes it brighter, dummy!)

I can make my non-Archon simulation sound close-enough to the Archon with the bright switch off. It is that extra "oomph" with the switch on that I'm trying to figure out.

 

[shinksma]

Universal Audio has three amp in the box pedals; one that emulates a black panel '65 Fender (not sure which model), one that emulates an AC30, and another that emulates a '55 Tweed.

They're evidently based on UA's amp sim technology, which in UAD plugin form is the best I've tried of MANY plugins. Probably worth a look.

I don't know what they cost.

I did look into these. They look pretty cool, but they are truly just plug-ins in a box, and I have hesitations about using pedals that are just software on a big chip that you load/tweak/register via a USB port. Also, these ones aren't cheap - usual pricing seems to be about $400, currently going at a 20% discount.

So I did a Google search for "best Fender amp sim pedal" or similar, and one of the first suggestions was the inexpensive Joyo American Dream ($40-ish). I already had one - I had used it for a while until I modified whatever board it was on to use the Joyo Ironman "Clean Glass" to help free up space - which is the pedal that had migrated to my current board that I'm reasonably happy with when plugged into the Archon (bypassing Clean Glass, as noted above).

Plugged in the American Dream in place of the Clean Glass, tweaked the settings, and found pretty well exactly what I was looking for - an emulation of the Archon clean channel. Perfect? No. The Archon is still a tube amp with all its mystique. But close enough for what I want/need if I don't want to lug an Archon around, and far better / closer than using the other pedal.

Even though the basic guts of the Clean Glass and American Dream are supposed to be the same, the American Dream has two more knobs to twiddle (three band EQ vs "tone"), and that's ultimately what helped. And/or it just has a "model" (hardwire electronics FTW, no SW/FW-on-a-chip) that more closely matches what my ears were looking for.

 

[aamefford]

It sounds like you got there with the Joyo American dream. When I was shopping, the Joyo was compared favorably to the UA Dream. If “there” was deluxe reverb and moded deluxe reverb, the UA might be closer. Or not. I ended up with the UA, which works nicely on my pedal board into monitors.

Just a thought, what about a 10 band eq after your Joyo to tweak it closer to the Archon?

Caveat - I’ve never played an archon, I can get tolerable tone out of my mesa mkv25 maybe 70% of the time, and I’m pretty much a hack at guitar still.

 

[shinksma]

Just a thought, what about a 10 band eq after your Joyo to tweak it closer to the Archon?

That was a consideration, but I wanted to not "add" a pedal to my already cramped board. Putting the American Dream on meant I removed the Clean Glass, of course, but also removed a fuzz pedal I had on there because of the required real estate. I suppose I could have just left the Clean Glass and swapped the fuzz for an EQ, but in the end the American Dream is less noisy than the Clean Glass, so I'm pretty happy with that result.

 

[László]

I did look into these. They look pretty cool, but they are truly just plug-ins in a box

Apologies, my post my not have made this clear - it's based on UA's amp sims (that are all plugins except for that pedal line, though they don't actually have a Black Panel Fender plugin in their plugin lineup at present).

On the plus side - if it wasn't for the dough they charge for the pedal - their Fender Tweed amp sim is the only plugin out of all the other ones on the market I've tried that I would actually use in a track if I couldn't rent the real vintage model for a session.

Their Ampeg Portaflex sim is the only bass amp plugin I'd put on a track, and I do use it.

I believe I've tried everything out there, and own amp sim packages from all the vendors - I only use them on synths.

But as with all of the other amp sims made in recent years, it's merely digital processing.

Based on my experience with the ad work, UA's own, original digital processing is pretty darn good compared to other developers' plugins (they also license software from others for their UAD platform, and UA's always sound the most real to me).

Being a tube amp guy, I wouldn't buy the pedal, so my opinion is academic.

 

[shinksma]

Being a tube amp guy, I wouldn't buy the pedal, so my opinion is academic.

Completely understand. Normally I'd love to drag one of my tube amps around with me to gigs, but in general it simply isn't practical, so I compromise but try to find a solution that works as close as I can within reasonable budget constraints.

I'm pretty happy with the tone I'm getting now, but I'm sure I'll want to tweak it again eventually...

 

[László]

Completely understand. Normally I'd love to drag one of my tube amps around with me to gigs, but in general it simply isn't practical, so I compromise but try to find a solution that works as close as I can within reasonable budget constraints.

I'm pretty happy with the tone I'm getting now, but I'm sure I'll want to tweak it again eventually...

Makes perfect sense. I'm no longer at the point where I can drag tube amps around easily; I have taken heads to other studios for sessions, but it's not like the gig thing where it's all rushed, and you're far from the club entrance, and you're dragging heads, cabs, pedalboards, guitars, etc.

I'd do pretty much the same thing you're doing: take a reasonably good substitute to a gig.

 

[Toolmaster Of Brainerd]

When I can't take my Archon out, I use a Kingsley Page TS in preamp mode for my clean channel. It's an expensive option, but it's all tube!

I haven't AB'd it with the Archon enough to say how close it is in sound. It's probably not that close lol, but I do like how it sounds a lot.

 

[László]

When I can't take my Archon out, I use a Kingsley Page TS in preamp mode for my clean channel. It's an expensive option, but it's all tube!

I haven't AB'd it with the Archon enough to say how close it is in sound. It's probably not that close lol, but I do like how it sounds a lot.

I've only heard those on the That Pedal Show demos, but damn, they sound great!

The last tube pedal I had was a Mesa V-Twin, and it was also a great pedal. I gave it to a session player I often worked with who loved it. He was so good, I decided he'd earned it.

I guess hoarding cool stuff never interested me? I'm a very sh!tty excuse for a collector, that's why I don't refer to myself as one. Oh well!

 

[shinksma]

When I can't take my Archon out, I use a Kingsley Page TS in preamp mode for my clean channel. It's an expensive option, but it's all tube!

I haven't AB'd it with the Archon enough to say how close it is in sound. It's probably not that close lol, but I do like how it sounds a lot.

I guess I should check it out more. Maybe I can at least listen to online demos this weekend sometime!

 

[MarcWink]

I know you said you were looking for something in the stomp box type format for a fly rig, but I will say that the Archon clean channel model in the Line 6 modelers is fantastic (it's in both the Helix series and the POD Go). If I need a nice pristine clean sound that's got that classic BF/SF vibe with just a little more punchiness, it's a great model. It may be worth looking into a used POD Go and running that as tour all in one fly rig to either front of house or into your acoustic amp. I just did a gig with my Helix HX Stomp XL earlier this week using that for everything. Ran straight to FOH and had my Headrush FRFR speaker for stage monitoring.