Windy City 2020 594Fest!

[MA Pete]

Curious how different my Fryette PS2 was from the Ox Box

I had a Fryette PS2 in 2017 or so. It was probably the best thing I had tried to-date for that function, but I don't recall the "holy cow, this is a game-changer!" reaction like I have had with the Ox Box. It seemed to suck a bit of tone, for my ears at the time.

Right after I tried the PS2, I got the Metropolous Metroplex and Superplex, which have terrific Master Volumes, so I sold the PS2.

The Ox Box thing with the modeled speakers, cabs and mics into headphones is half of the Ox Box magic.

(Re the Metropoulos Amps, I am getting both "again" to complement the HXDA. George M is building me another Superplex (JTM45/100 voiced, KT66 tubes) and a DVL-1 (evolution of Metroplex, William Duvall Sig Amp, Hot-Rodded Plexi/Superlead) now. Even though they have a great MV, the Ox Box still will help get the best tones out of them, and enable the Headphone trick.)

 

[László]

Can’t recommend the whole house surge protection highly enough. We had a wiring incident a few years ago that resulted in having to get a new entrance and service panel installed (which finally got this house off fuses!). We got a whole house surge protector installed at that time - sits right in the breaker box. A few months later, during a storm, I heard a loud crash that sounded like something broke in the bedroom. Turned out it was a lightning strike nearby. Most of the houses here took a surge - the surge protector stopped it in its tracks. I don’t think we had anything damaged except the protector. Replaced the protector for under $200. Much cheaper than appliances, computers, and amplifiers!!!

I once had a power surge cause a Krell amplifier I was using to power my studio monitors to blow and go to DC, so when I turned it on, it blew out my B&W monitors’ woofers, literally turning them inside-out. Kablam! A $4000 amp and equally expensive monitors up in smoke! By some miracle, I was insured for this because I bought business interruption insurance and was in the middle of a project, so it was cheaper for them to pay for the gear than pay for my lost profit.

From then on, I powered my monitors with a surge-protected balanced AC converter with very heavy duty surge arrestors. It weighed over 100 pounds. They’ve since made smaller ones, like the ones I now have, that weigh only...um...75 pounds.

All of my studio gear is connected to an Equi-Tech Son of Q balanced power converter and surge arrestor, and the amps are connected to a Furman PF1800 PF-R thing with heavy duty surge protectors, and some other cool features, like isolated AC outlets and a 45 amp power reservoir.

I’ve learned my lesson when it comes to this stuff. Never trust your AC power source without a condom...er...adequate protection.

 

[Black Plaid]

I once had a power surge cause a Krell amplifier I was using to power my studio monitors to blow and go to DC, so when I turned it on, it blew out my B&W monitors’ woofers, literally turning them inside-out. Kablam! A $4000 amp and equally expensive monitors up in smoke! By some miracle, I was insured for this because I bought business interruption insurance and was in the middle of a project, so it was cheaper for them to pay for the gear than pay for my lost profit.

From then on, I powered my monitors with a surge-protected balanced AC converter with very heavy duty surge arrestors. It weighed over 100 pounds. They’ve since made smaller ones, like the ones I now have, that weigh only...um...75 pounds.

All of my studio gear is connected to an Equi-Tech Son of Q balanced power converter and surge arrestor, and the amps are connected to a Furman PF1800 PF-R thing with heavy duty surge protectors, and some other cool features, like isolated AC outlets and a 45 amp power reservoir.

I’ve learned my lesson when it comes to this stuff. Never trust your AC power source without a condom...er...adequate protection.

Ouch! I used to have a set of B&W home stereo speakers, loved how they sounded.

 

[dmatthews]

The DC 594 is my favorite guitar.

Mine too right now.

 

[Rider1260]

Yea I get all this , I do industrial Audio and Video for a living ( 38 years ) and in this case I did just use my iPhone meter I have checked it against the real things we use at work for shows and speaker testing and its really close.
Regardless it was quite loud , we were all within 20ft of any given cab and the room we were in did not have much of an off axis area, another note is Petes fav cab is an open back so there was plenty of reflection. It was loud enough that Pete was the smart one and started wearing plugs
The loudest I have ever played ( and tested at work ) in a highly reflective room at 20 ft was a measured 106db ( peak ) sustained over 100db ( with ear protection ) 100 watt amp 2 cabs 1- 4x12 and one 2x12 just wanted to see at what point more level just turned into greater distortion and not greater volume.
and in my playing around I found an open G chord to have roughly the same level as pink ( or white ) noise thru a guitar amp.

It’s hard to pick a number that’s meaningful without including other factors.

The most useful way to measure musical sound pressure level requires pink noise testing with a C-weighted meter on a slow response setting, at the listening position. Pink noise is all frequencies at once. You’re not getting pink noise from a guitar speaker, of course.

But here’s a key thing: What you actually hear in terms of SPL is relative to distance, and what’s comfortable varies with room reflections.

Every doubling of distance results in a 6 dB drop in SPL. In addition, the SPL rises and falls as you play, and the amount of reflections, absorption, etc., at various frequencies greatly affects what constitutes a comfortable level, especially how high frequency transients are perceived.

So in my room, with acoustical absorption on the walls, and heavily padded carpeting, with my amps about 15-20 feet from my workstation position, an SPL of 90-100 db at a distance of, say, 5 feet from the amp often reaches my ears at an SPL of 78 - 88 dB, and the high frequencies aren’t at all bothersome. In a more reflective room, even at the same distance, I might attenuate high frequencies more. Etc.

The point is that you can’t pick a number unless you also include a distance, and whether you’re on or off-axis matters, too, for comfort. And since the room’s high frequency absorption affects comfort, that also must be factored in.

This is why speaker manufacturers quote SPL at a distance of X meters, with a set amount of power (i.e., 100 dB with one watt at one meter).

 

[MA Pete]

Yea I get all this , I do industrial Audio and Video for a living ( 38 years ) and in this case I did just use my iPhone meter I have checked it against the real things we use at work for shows and speaker testing and its really close.
Regardless it was quite loud , we were all within 20ft of any given cab and the room we were in did not have much of an off axis area, another note is Petes fav cab is an open back so there was plenty of reflection. It was loud enough that Pete was the smart one and started wearing plugs
The loudest I have ever played ( and tested at work ) in a highly reflective room at 20 ft was a measured 106db ( peak ) sustained over 100db ( with ear protection ) 100 watt amp 2 cabs 1- 4x12 and one 2x12 just wanted to see at what point more level just turned into greater distortion and not greater volume.
and in my playing around I found an open G chord to have roughly the same level as pink ( or white ) noise thru a guitar amp.

Interesting posts on the sound levels, Mike and Les!

We probably were playing a bit louder than we needed to / should have. That is easy to do, overdo it in a group setting where you are testing tones of guitars and amps.

I tried Mike’s “one click down” yesterday and today in the same room, and it was MUCH better! Still sounded great.

 

[MA Pete]

Okay, I am winding down, got a lot of my thoughts out!

One more topic, and this one is a little more "deep". I have gone back and forth between the Doublecuts and the Singlecut being my favorite 594s.

For the 245s from 2009 to 2015, it was mostly the DCs. I dabbled in the SCs and dug them, the DC 245 was "my" model. One thing that was interesting way back then was that from a production Core perspective, the 2009 Ted McCarty was a limited run, SC's and DC's, Humbuckers and Soapbars. They would have died right there (except for Private Stock), had Eric at Willcutt Guitar not kept them alive with 3 terrific WL runs that spanned over 3-4 years! So it was "my" model, but not even really a model at all.

The McCarty Singlecuts (also 245s, but thicker and no belly carve, and with the two piece bridge) were so great sounding, that started to pull me towards the SC. Plus, I wasn't playing out as much anymore when those came out, so the significant ergonomic benefit (IMO) of the DC didn't matter as much to me in that moment.

When the Feb 2016 DC 594 came out, I was smitten. Before I got my GOM in, I was at PRS and played Paul's Charcoal Burst prototype. It was perfect! I ordered a PS DC 594 on the spot and got my Feb GOM at home that same week.

And then in October of 2016 I got the Holy Grail guitar, the Prototype SC 594, and I swung hard to the SC, and stayed there until this week. I think I figured out what was going on for me.

This is where it gets "deep". It has to do with identity and how we, or at least I, connect with the guitars and the guitar adventures.

So in preparation for the 594Fest, I talked to my wife about putting pictures up of the band adventure in the Guitar / Office area. I think I mentioned my wife was awesome and very supportive of the guitar stuff! We went through the years of Band photos together, and she helped me pick the best photos to frame and put up. From there, she did everything, she bought frames and got everything printed out on photo paper, framed them and hung them. (Like I said, she is AWESOME!) She did a great job.

Let me take you through the photos and then I will connect it back to the SC versus DC thing. (Spoiler alert - of course the answer is BOTH!)

Starting in the upper left and going clockwise:

• My family with me at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame gig from 2012. (That little guy is now taller than me and outweighs me by 20 pounds.)
• At a gig in Boston with my beloved Glacier Blue Willcutt Wood Library DC 245 Ted, later sold to "aristole" here. I dug that one!
• The band at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame with Jeff Carlisi (Lead Guitarist from 38 Special) and Liberty DeVitto (former Billy Joel Drummer), they were on the judge panel for the Battle of the Corporate Bands thing we were in. Both fun guys to hang out with!
• On stage at that same event, that was a Brent/The Guitar Shop Obeche backed Custom 24 with a WF neck, sub 6 pounds and sounded great. I was dealing with a bad back at the time, so that light guitar was great for that year of gigging. (Mike was jealous of that guitar, he really wants a Custom 24 with a Wide Fat Neck!)

Starting in the upper left and going clockwise again:

• Me, Paul and Eric from Willcutt Guitars, at one of my many visits to spec a Private Stock.
• Me and the band with a rare appearance of gigging with a Singlecut, in Las Vegas. (Which is the primary point of going through the pictures, re the Singlecut.)
• With the Band at the same gig in Boston from the above photo, with the Glacier Blue DC Ted. (Don't worry, I wasn't putting as much downward pressure on that headstock as it looks like I was!)
• With my Aquamarine Private Stock DC 245 Signature/408 guitar, at a Gig in San Francisco. That was my main gigging guitar for quite a while.

• Howard and I when we met up in Chicago before a Paul Rodgers Band gig, trying to convince me to trade him that Purple SC Ted. I declined, but we had a killer time! (BrianC took that picture.)
• My wife and I a couple of years later at a Bad Company concert. Howard was off to the side, the pics were just with the original members of Bad Co, but Howard was kind enough to wait in line with my wife and I and chat with us until it was our turn to get pictures taken with the band, and he introduced us to Paul, Mick and Niles as his friends. What a gracious guy Howard is!!

Anyway, back to the point of all this. In searching through all the pics and try to get a good mix of the guitars I gigged with over the years (they were many more, 2 DGTs, a Shootout McCarty, an Eriza Verde Sig 408, and LOTS of DC Teds - but almost always Doublecuts with just a couple of exceptions), I came to a realization about my connection to the DC and SC and how I need both in my life, and how the connection is different.

So no matter how old you get, there is always that younger you inside you, part of your identity, that is frozen in time at that age you were then. There is a grown up part of my identity that plays guitar and is attempting to be a musician in a band (sometimes I pull it off, just barely). That guy is the Doublecut guy. The Doublecut is me, that is my guitar - no question whatsoever. Particularly the Short Scale ones, the DC 245 and now the DC 594. When one is in my hands, I am complete. I don't even need to play it. It just needs to be in my hands.

There is another guy in there, hidden deep inside. That guy is the teenager that spent hours, days, weeks listening in amazement to Led Zeppelin, and worshipping Jimmy Page and that low-slung Singlecut. And at 18 or 19 that same guy picked up a guitar and started learning every Zeppelin riff and song possible. (I couldn't afford a Les Paul, though!) When the grown up me gets a great SC version of that DC short scale guitar in my hands, that much younger part of my identity gets pulled out, and THAT guy wants the SC over the DC all day long! As I said before, that guy feels like Thor picking up Mjölnir.

I honestly didn't realize all this until this week.

SC or DC? Both, please! (But really I am just a Doublecut guy.)

Thank you PRS, for giving me both!

(I warned you that it was deep!)

One important point I forgot to mention about the SC and DC Short Scale guitars, and how I connect that to my “identity”, on my post above. As my wife and I went through the many pics on the computer to select which ones to get printed and frame, while I love and adore the Singlecuts, when I see a picture of me playing a Singlecut at a gig, it just looks so WRONG to me! It makes me say to myself “wow, Singlecuts just don’t look good on me!”. That is interesting coming from a guy that loves playing them at home so much, and grew up worshipping the Singlecut-wielding rock stars.

I love them, to play them and own them, I just can’t look at a picture of me playing one. It is not “me”. The PRS Doublecut is “me”. When I see a picture of me playing a PRS Doublecut, it brings a smile to my face, all is right in the world!

So I purposely picked one picture of me gigging a Singlecut to hang on the wall to always remind me of that weird (and kind of cool) conundrum.

I am not playing out these days, but I am certain I will again in the not-too-distant future. And when I do, it will very likely be with a DC 594.

 

[ViperDoc]

More on the amps...

While I was overwhelmingly pleased with my reaction and the reaction of the group with the HXDA, the Open Back 2x12 and the sound in the room, I was a little disappointed in the reaction to the DG 30. It was kind of a "meh" reaction from the group. I love that amp as well, so I was a little bummed about that.

BUT - I think I figured that out. In checking it out again today, I think I didn't have that dialed in just right. That amp is really finicky with regards to the settings, that is an amp which many folks try out, don't love it, and sell it. Especially without an Ox Box or something like that to really hone in the optimum settings, which is having the MV pretty high. When dialed in properly, the DG 30 can be amazing IMO. I dialed it back in today and was getting some great tones out of it. In the heat of the moment yesterday with everything else going on, I didn't think to go to the amp and work to dial it in, I thought I had left it in the sweet spot I had it in previously. It sounded REALLY good today with the 594s!

The HXDA is still my favorite, but the DG 30 is a close second, and what it is to me is a nice complement to the HXDA, it is nice to have both (as Les says!).

I remember David Grissom or Doug Sewell saying something like "with the DG Custom we were trying to get the growl of the Marshall, the Chime of the Vox, and the sparkle of the Fender, in one amp". I agree with that. I think the way I dial it in it is mostly Marshall, with a taste of Vox and Fender, which find to be a great thing, and again a refreshing alternative to the HXDA, which is straight down the middle the best hot-rodded Marshall sound you could ever ask for.

The other cool surprise was that we sort of discovered on the fly that the Plexi channels of both the Friedman and the Helios were pretty amazing cranked up and tamed by the Ox Box. I have heard both before not through an Ox Box, they sound awesome dimed but are punishingly loud, as loud as the real thing, a 100W Classic Marshall Plexi, like Kingsley's awesome example I mentioned before. But through the Ox Box they were manageable and sounded killer. I think I liked the Friedman Plexi tone a little better. That was fun, to discover that!

We also concluded that the dirty channel on the Bogner couldn't hold a candle to the HXDA, which surprised me as the Helios has always been one of my top 5 Marshall voiced amps. (We preferred the Plexi "Clean" Channel cranked, which got pretty overdriven, over the Lead Channel, on the Helios.) That just goes to show you how great the HXDA tone is, cranked through the Ox Box!

That was pretty much it on the amps, the Two Rock was great for the cleans and as a pedal platform, and we didn't even get a chance to plug in the Carr Mercury V.

YO!!! Just breezing through this event coverage, what a blast! With so much to choose from, I don't know how you could get it all in. Let me just say if you do this again, YOU MUST TAKE THE CARR MERCURY V THROUGH ITS PACES. It is one of the very best sounding amps I've ever played. PERIOD. The combo version sports a Creamback speaker, so if you have the chance, that's a wonderful sound.

 

[László]

Yea I get all this , I do industrial Audio and Video for a living ( 38 years ) and in this case I did just use my iPhone meter I have checked it against the real things we use at work for shows and speaker testing and its really close.
Regardless it was quite loud , we were all within 20ft of any given cab and the room we were in did not have much of an off axis area, another note is Petes fav cab is an open back so there was plenty of reflection. It was loud enough that Pete was the smart one and started wearing plugs
The loudest I have ever played ( and tested at work ) in a highly reflective room at 20 ft was a measured 106db ( peak ) sustained over 100db ( with ear protection ) 100 watt amp 2 cabs 1- 4x12 and one 2x12 just wanted to see at what point more level just turned into greater distortion and not greater volume.
and in my playing around I found an open G chord to have roughly the same level as pink ( or white ) noise thru a guitar amp.

I wasn’t aware you were an audio professional, I hope you’re not offended by my pedantic dissertation on checking SPLs. But it might be useful info for others, so I’ll keep the post up.

Based on what I see posted here, I’d venture a guess that I play louder than most home studio players.

I’m always trying to work out recording tones as well as practice the instrument, so I often play at volumes I record at, and allow the amps to open up for best tone. I’m not saying everyone needs to do this, of course. My excuse is that my recordings need to sound as good as they can, since I’m being paid to do a good job with the tone, but it’s also the way I like to play, anyway.

However, If I need to play longer than what’s safe at the levels I play, I either lower the volume, or wear Westone plugs I had made years and years ago, and of course, I record with headphones.

 

[Alnus Rubra]

Ouch! I used to have a set of B&W home stereo speakers, loved how they sounded.

I still have mine!

 

[László]

Ouch! I used to have a set of B&W home stereo speakers, loved how they sounded.

I still have mine!

They’re found in lots of big time film scoring studios’ mix rooms, Abbey Road uses a set for surround work, and George Martin used a pair on the Focusrite console at his Air studio. Very high quality systems.

Unfortunately, mine were destroyed, and I was in the middle of a project. I couldn’t find another new set without a fairly long wait, same with the amp. The local pro audio shop had a set of Genelecs, so the problem was solved that way, and I used that set for quite a few years.

 

[Rider1260]

Never offended and your info is 100% correct and useful and explained better than I would have the patients to do !!!!!

I wasn’t aware you were an audio professional, I hope you’re not offended by my pedantic dissertation on checking SPLs. But it might be useful info for others, so I’ll keep the post up.

Based on what I see posted here, I’d venture a guess that I play louder than most home studio players.

I’m always trying to work out recording tones as well as practice the instrument, so I often play at volumes I record at, and allow the amps to open up for best tone. I’m not saying everyone needs to do this, of course. My excuse is that my recordings need to sound as good as they can, since I’m being paid to do a good job with the tone, but it’s also the way I like to play, anyway.

However, If I need to play longer than what’s safe at the levels I play, I either lower the volume, or wear Westone plugs I had made years and years ago, and of course, I record with headphones.

 

[Alnus Rubra]

Never offended and your info is 100% correct and useful and explained better than I would have the patients to do !!!!!

So are you a Dr?

 

[Rider1260]

I have found when my volume get to loud ( for me ) I tend to play timid and then I start to turn the guitar down. if I set the volume where I can just hear myself I play with more aggression and looser. If I am playing loud I just need to get out of the beam of the speaker.

Interesting posts on the sound levels, Mike and Les!

We probably were playing a bit louder than we needed to / should have. That is easy to do, overdo it in a group setting where you are testing tones of guitars and amps.

I tried Mike’s “one click down” yesterday and today in the same room, and it was MUCH better! Still sounded great.

 

[tdarian]

Sounds like a fun session guys!

 

[MA Pete]

YO!!! Just breezing through this event coverage, what a blast! With so much to choose from, I don't know how you could get it all in. Let me just say if you do this again, YOU MUST TAKE THE CARR MERCURY V THROUGH ITS PACES. It is one of the very best sounding amps I've ever played. PERIOD. The combo version sports a Creamback speaker, so if you have the chance, that's a wonderful sound.

Agree, that Mercury V is an AMAZING little amp! We just didn't get a chance to go through it, we ran out of time, energy and brain/ear capacity.

If Bodia had stayed, he probably would have made sure we got to the Carr, as he had heard the combo I had a couple of years back, and was amazed with it. I returned the combo within the return period when I bought it, specifically because I wanted the head version to use with the Ox Box. It took me a while to get the head version, as I didn't make the priority to special order one, I just waited until one showed up at a dealer.

I am targeting using the Bogner Goldfinger Open Back 1x12 on the far left in the picture of the amp wall with the Carr. It is the very best 1x12 I have ever played through, for those vintage tones. (I tried several at the time, with multiple amps.) It has a V30 there now, which sounds pretty darn good, but I have a Greenback I was planning to put in there to match up with the Carr. Thanks for the reminder that Carr puts a Creamback in the Combo - I like those a lot too, I may consider that instead.

With regards to "With so much to choose from, I don't know how you could get it all in" - it was a lot, and a bit overwhelming! I had made a planning list of what I wanted to go through, and what I wanted feedback from the guys on. We got through about 80+% of the list, which was great! I learned a lot from it, and made some discoveries and decisions based on the session, which was very helpful!

The main decision I made from the session was to return the Bogner 50W Helios Head and Closed Back 2x12 - great amp and great closed back 2x12 (that cab sounds like a great 4x12!), but those just aren't for me at this time, they are more so optimized for the heavier rock tones. The Bogner head is quite capable of more vintage tones on the Plexi channel, but it lacks an EQ other than the 2 Bright Switch settings, and the HXDA combined with the Ox Box and the Open Back 2x12 just absolutely slays for the tones I seek with the 594s! And with a much wider variety of tones that are easy to dial in once you figure out what everything does. (Tim Pierce's review of his 50W and 100W HXDA heads a few years back was helpful in that regard.)

We will definitely do this again, we have more to go through, and will have more to go through when a couple of amps and cabs get added...

Specifically, I want to go through the DG 30 again with the matching DG 2x12 cab optimized for that head (have one coming) and once I figure out how to dial it in better, and also the Carr with the 1x12 Cab with an updated speaker, Greenback or Creamback as per above. And I have a couple other heads being built, and some thoughts about others. As you can see, as part of my 2020 594 adventure I am currently obsessed with amps, cabs (and effects, particularly Boost and OD pedals) to match up with these amazing 594s, for vintage rock and bluesy tones!

Also, I think next time it might be cool to balance the 594 focus with some more time on the "sparklier" PRS tones, from the Special Semi-Hollow (Mike's, cool guitar), Silver Sky (maybe a Maple-boarded one by then?) and Bodia's 509.

Next time we will try to check the testosterone at the door and play at safer noise levels, as discussed here.

Sounds like a fun session guys!

Thanks, Tom! It was pretty terrific...

 

[BrianC]

OK so here is my 2 cents from our recent get together at Mr Pete's.

First off it is great to get together with such fine people. We all have so much gear that there was an unbelievable amount there and EVEN more that was left at home.
Let me say I am NOT in the 594 camp as there are many features that I lean in a different way. I am a 24 fret guy for ease of access, I like a trem, I do not like four knobs and I like a regular neck profile.

With that said, the new 594's are fabulous!

I DO love -

• the nitro - it looks so cool and vintagey. It really brings the top and back to a new level.
• the TCI pups - I heard many guitars and they all sounded great AND consistent.
• the tuners - I like the look of the tulips though the Phase III's are the bomb.

I look forward to many of these advancements finding their way to my CU24's!

The Ox Box was the hit of the day allowing lower gain amps to be dialed up for tone and playability without killing us. The HXDA is a different animal with the Ox. Of Pete's amps it was by far my fav. We ran out of time and I did not get to show him the amazing tone of my Friedman amps. Maybe a good thing as Pete would have had to sell everything and get on the Friedman train. My JJ Jr is by far the best sounding amp for the money.

The reality was that there really was NO bad choice. Any PRS guitar that was there could be an axe anybody would be happy with. We were splitting hairs and sniffing corks in the most fun way. Why not? Why not find the best guitar and keep making it better and better? Thats why we love the brand (and sometimes hate it when they improve something we had bought in the past).

I have 4 core PRS and 1 SE. I have had maybe 14 or so along the way and have found where my home is with the CU24. Its so great that there are so many choices for everybody. I have also had a few amps and love my 2X12 stealth cab which is still in my arsenal. The 4X12 PRS cab is one of the best I've heard (it should for how much it weighs)

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Great fun! Bummed I had to bail early

I have to admit, I want an Ox Box now! That HX/DA slayed running through the Ox

(Sigh...) and an MDT too, right? Because once you turn them up once, you're never the same.

 

[bodia]

(Sigh...) and an MDT too, right? Because once you turn them up once, you're never the same.

'zactly!

 

[Deleted member 5962]

The Blistertone starts just after 14:00. At full tilt, killer!

A bit modern for what I seek today, but for a more modern, tighter sound - WOW!! An Ox Box would certainly very likely enable that at mere mortal volumes.

My good buddy JD at Guitar Maverick has a NOS one at a killer price. Please someone buy it before I somehow decide I need it!!

Holy crap!!!! I thought the HX/DA and MDT sounded awesome. And Paul was right even a few years later... you never heard much about the Blistertone. But holy crap did that sound great!!!