What is it with clean tones in videos?

[CandidPicker]

I must be weird. I'm older than Sergio and I still love dirt. Perhaps my wife has been right all this time, and my "emotional growth" really is "stunted."

Dang, I hope so!

Actually, you've learned to live with dirt. IRL, I garden with it. I also know when to clean up once things get dirty. It's somewhat of a mantra of my life...you really can't avoid getting your hands dirty when you work, so you wash your hands once you finish with your work. Older adults are always watching their kids grow older and reminisce how hard they tried to keep their kids clean and healthy. But the kids always managed to get dirty.

Regards guitar tones, the reason guitarists enjoy dirty tones is because overdrive or dirt covers over many errors (or clams, as we know them). Interestingly, we seldom like uncovering clams unless we plan on cooking them. Anyway, playing cleanly avoids the clams and unnecessary finding fault with other's playing because we played cleanly to begin with. IMHO, playing with a lot of dirt is somewhat of a cop-out, because it just tells us that too much of anything doesn't let the real ability of our playing to shine through.

That being said, like many, I'm not perfect by any means. What is realized is that opponents will capitalize on your errors, and make you pay when you mess up. If you think sports teams are any different, nope. You can either laugh off your clams or try to be a better player when others tell you you can't play well.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Regards guitar tones, the reason guitarists enjoy dirty tones is because overdrive or dirt covers over many errors (or clams, as we know them). Interestingly, we seldom like uncovering clams unless we plan on cooking them. Anyway, playing cleanly avoids the clams and unnecessary finding fault with other's playing because we played cleanly to begin with. IMHO, playing with a lot of dirt is somewhat of a cop-out, because it just tells us that too much of anything doesn't let the real ability of our playing to shine through.

Totally disagree with this. I play the amount of gain I play because I like the tones, not to hide clams. I'm not going to play a Scorpions song with a clean twin. By the same token, I played live in front off 750 people Sunday night, with live broadcast to over 3500 more, and both songs were completely clean presets. Played what fit the songs.

So, I really take issue with the "copout" idea. I know that it's common for beginners to play with too much gain, and many times it is to hide poor technique. I'm a little bit past that phase in my playing. I play what fits the song and tones I'm going for. I don't max out the gain levels to hide mistakes or lack of ability. You do realize that some of the greatest players alive today play with a lot of gain, don't you? You think Petrucci plays with that much gain to hide mistakes or cover up a lack of ability? Vai? Satch? Van Halen?

Seriously, what you're saying applies to beginning level players. I do know that is common in beginners or people who have not advanced very far with playing. But as general statements, the "copout" and "doesn't let our ability shine through" are just wrong.

In fact, it requires MORE skill in several ways, to play with high gain. Keeping control of the guitar and unwanted noises creates a whole extra set of skills that have to be developed. Much more attention has to be paid to muting adjacent strings, and how much noise your hands can make on strings you aren't "playing" etc. You stand in front of my Archon with the gain at noon and do a couple of your usual nonchalant moves you do with your clean or low gain tones, and you'll get screamed at my a mean V30. Some of the moving around of your hands on the strings, bridge, body of the guitar that are barely even noticeable on your cleans, will be loud distractive noises with gain. And I'm not talking about a modeler at 65dB, I'm talking rock and roll. You turn that gain up, you better be ready to hang on.

 

[CandidPicker]

Totally disagree with this. I play the amount of gain I play because I like the tones, not to hide clams. I'm not going to play a Scorpions song with a clean twin. By the same token, I played live in front off 750 people Sunday night, with live broadcast to over 3500 more, and both songs were completely clean presets. Played what fit the songs.

So, I really take issue with the "copout" idea. I know that it's common for beginners to play with too much gain, and many times it is to hide poor technique. I'm a little bit past that phase in my playing. I play what fits the song and tones I'm going for. I don't max out the gain levels to hide mistakes or lack of ability. You do realize that some of the greatest players alive today play with a lot of gain, don't you? You think Petrucci plays with that much gain to hide mistakes or cover up a lack of ability? Vai? Satch? Van Halen?

Seriously, what you're saying applies to beginning level players. I do know that is common in beginners or people who have not advanced very far with playing. But as general statements, the "copout" and "doesn't let our ability shine through" are just wrong.

In fact, it requires MORE skill in several ways, to play with high gain. Keeping control of the guitar and unwanted noises creates a whole extra set of skills that have to be developed. Much more attention has to be paid to muting adjacent strings, and how much noise your hands can make on strings you aren't "playing" etc. You stand in front of my Archon with the gain at noon and do a couple of your usual nonchalant moves you do with your clean or low gain tones, and you'll get screamed at my a mean V30. Some of the moving around of your hands on the strings, bridge, body of the guitar that are barely even noticeable on your cleans, will be loud distractive noises with gain. And I'm not talking about a modeler at 65dB, I'm talking rock and roll. You turn that gain up, you better be ready to hang on.

Yeah, that makes sense. Yet, I personally don't need to play high gain tones if clean tones helps prevent me from overplaying when dirty tones are in use. Think of things this way: If you could say "I don't need to pay anymore on a car payment because the car is paid for," why overpay?

Likewise, playing cleanly prevents the need for "overplaying" with dirty tones. It is reasonable to think that playing high gain requires much more technique and maintaining a specific mindset (palm muting, scrapes, tapping, etc) that is all part of high gain.

Yet a simplistic approach of playing cleanly requires less use of these techniques and requires that your focus only remain on playing cleanly. One may not be as skilled regards technique or using dirt, but the clean player's ability shines through.

As was said by inference, invariably, maintaining your car requires getting your hands dirty. Making sure you don't confuse maintaining your car and it breaking down means getting your hands dirty more often.

My solution is that if you maintain your technique and follow by playing cleanly, the mindset is that clean follows being dirty, and that things typically will get dirty again. "The Odd Couple" of guitar technique and ownership, buddy.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I personally don't need to play high gain tones if clean tones helps prevent me from overplaying when dirty tones are in use.

I'm an overplayer from way back, CP. That's how I show off for the girls! (That's funnier if you read my post about my wife and my guitar playing a few weeks ago. LOL) When we were dating I'd throw down some Van Halen or Ozzie or Rush to try to impress her and she just didn't care. LOL She'd be like "yeah, that was good. Do you know any Merle Haggard?"

 

[CandidPicker]

I'm an overplayer from way back, CP. That's how I show off for the girls! (That's funnier if you read my post about my wife and my guitar playing a few weeks ago. LOL) When we were dating I'd throw down some Van Halen or Ozzie or Rush to try to impress her and she just didn't care. LOL She'd be like "yeah, that was good. Do you know any Merle Haggard?"

And that's OK. Personally, I've tried to be a modest and humble player, tinging my jams on stage with backstories related to what folks are thinking about currently, not much more than being sure of my note choices, landing on sweet notes (resolving tones), remembering to not end on a discordant tone.

If anything, I've tried reflecting on my past life as a journey through history and realized that growing older has not changed the way I feel about my mindset of beginning the journey clean, then spending time getting my hands dirty, and cleaning up again.

We were once kids who played outdoors and got dirty, but returned home and were sent to go wash up before we could enjoy family time.

I still maintain that mindset today when I work and before I settle in for the evening.

Regards your music choice, I might simply suggest you check out "Men At Work" for a good view of how clean tones might differ from Ozzie, VH, or Rush. Although I don't know how these songs are played, they do represent clean tones.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

And that's OK. Personally, I've tried to be a modest and humble player, tinging my jams on stage with backstories related to what folks are thinking about currently, not much more than being sure of my note choices, landing on sweet notes (resolving tones), remembering to not end on a discordant tone.

Come on, CP, the words "modest" and "humble" have no place in guitar playing! This is all about getting up on stage and letting it rip. Sweet notes? Look, this is life, and you only get one chance, so no more than one ballad per album. The rest of the time, rip heads off! You have to live your life like a rock and roller. Grab life by the balz and give it a big yank, metaphorically speaking of course. Ditch the cowboy hat, get some leather pants that are one size too small, and lets start a band! And only after a long night of debauchery do you take a shower and get some rest, so you can start all over the next day.

 

[CandidPicker]

Come on, CP, the words "modest" and "humble" have no place in guitar playing! This is all about getting up on stage and letting it rip. Sweet notes? Look, this is life, and you only get one chance, so no more than one ballad per album. The rest of the time, rip heads off! You have to live your life like a rock and roller. Grab life by the balz and give it a big yank, metaphorically speaking of course. Ditch the cowboy hat, get some leather pants that are one size too small, and lets start a band! And only after a long night of debauchery do you take a shower and get some rest, so you can start all over the next day.

Hey, you're much younger than I am, and I'm not looking to impress folks with stage presence.

Our local open-mics are mostly acoustic, save for some brief moments of brilliance when someone brings an electric and amp and tears it up. (Has not happened in quite some time, so I'd not bother).

Am focusing about just trying to do what my work involves and what's on folks' minds presently, so as to help keep the music current. The only ripping it up you'll see if when I provide charts for the house band or bust out a decent improv on acoustic with a DADGAD capo.

TBH, I realize that you may not always think that rules are in place to be followed, but in my instance, following the rules is what gets the job done.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Two Questons:

1- Does this mean we’re not starting a band?

2- Does this mean you aren’t buying the leather pants?

 

[dmatthews]

I like chimey
I like dirt
I like funk
I like rock
I like hard rock
I like people that show me these things. Not just one.

 

[Dirty_Boogie]

This gives me an idea… Since I build pedals, I’m going to design one for “the ultimate clean dry tone”. One of the selling points will be that it doesn’t even need to be powered for it to work.

 

[aphantomvaper]

If you've ever heard Jerry Garcia rip a solo during deal, you'll know there is a fantastic place for dirt!

 

[chicagoslim]

As a working guitar player, I had to follow the money. I played Blues and Metal while giving guitar lessons to teenagers. Most people playing those genres were playing for free. Guitar lessons did provide a steady income. But I made more money by playing what other people couldn't.

I fronted a rockabilly band because I liked playing it. I was hired by Nashville recording artists, because I could play clean, melody-based solos. The music industry targets women of childbearing age (the guys will follow). So that leaves you with Country and Hip Hop. Only one of those uses guitar. Where I lived, it was a very small group of guitar players that could play anything but a Blues Scale. If you have the technical skills you can pull down a double cut, by working as a Band Leader or Music Director. Along the way I learned to sing. So working as a Music Director at a church, payed pretty well.

So I understand why all the YouTube videos are targeting who they are. It would be nice to hear some demo's that weren't overdriven or clean, with a lot of digital effects. I just wish that I could find demo's and tutorials that were more useful to me. I always try to keep learning and developing my skills.

 

[CandidPicker]

Two Questons:

1- Does this mean we’re not starting a band?

Yup.

2- Does this mean you aren’t buying the leather pants?

Yup.

Most of my stage performances aren't scripted songs. They're usually practiced improvs with a bit of embellishment added in. I've written some originals which also have chords, others are lyric poetry without chords that could well use some. I usually prefer to provide some background as to how the song was created, or what conditions were present at the time the song was written. Kind of like how a builder shows you the blueprint that went into the building of a house. (Why do I hear Audie Murphy in my head just now?)

Regards starting a band, thanks, but let's be real. My chops are way too inadequate to be on par with yours, so I'd likely be a liability rather than a benefit in a band. Regards leather pants, I'm not that old yet. When I reach that age, it'll likely be Depends instead of leather. So sorry to disappoint.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Regards starting a band, thanks, but let's be real. My chops are way too inadequate to be on par with yours, so I'd likely be a liability rather than a benefit in a band. Regards leather pants, I'm not that old yet. When I reach that age, it'll likely be Depends instead of leather. So sorry to disappoint.

Well, I've never heard you play. Have you heard me play?

So, if you're not old enough for depends, you're not too old for leather pants. I saw we get you some leather pants, and a Seinfeld "poofy shirt" and give it a go.

 

[CandidPicker]

Well, I've never heard you play. Have you heard me play?

So, if your not old enough for depends, you're not too old for leather pants. I saw we get you some leather pants, and a Seinfeld "poofy shirt" and give it a go.

TBH, my playing is not good at all. Do you have some Soundcloud links I could hear?
Regards the pants and shirt...no thanks. Previous gig where I needed to meet dress code was a suit and tie, dress shoes and white shirt, dark glasses. The lead guitarist wore a granny's wig and bathrobe duster, with fuzzy slippers and a cigarette hanging out of this mouth.
Ah, fun times.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

lead guitarist wore a granny's wig and bathrobe duster, with fuzzy slippers and a cigarette hanging out of this mouth.

 

[alantig]

That's how I show off for the girls! (That's funnier if you read my post about my wife and my guitar playing a few weeks ago. LOL) When we were dating I'd throw down some Van Halen or Ozzie or Rush to try to impress her and she just didn't care. LOL She'd be like "yeah, that was good. Do you know any Merle Haggard?"

A couple months ago, my wife and I were watching some doc about guitars or guitarists, and one of the guys said, "I picked up a guitar for the same reason most guys do - to get girls." My wife didn't miss a beat, just turned her head and said, "How'd that work out for you?"

I used one of my favorite Steven Wright lines - I said, "Great. I got a trophy wife. I just didn't finish in first place."

 

[Em7]

A couple months ago, my wife and I were watching some doc about guitars or guitarists, and one of the guys said, "I picked up a guitar for the same reason most guys do - to get girls." My wife didn't miss a beat, just turned her head and said, "How'd that work out for you?"

Hopefully, you responded "well."

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Do you have some Soundcloud links I could hear?

I think the only thing I've posted here is my Happy Birthday thing. Did you hear that?

 

[CandidPicker]

I think the only thing I've posted here is my Happy Birthday thing. Did you hear that?

You'll need to post it again or provide a link; somehow that eluded me.

I am too old to listen to modern clean tones. They sound so sterile to me. My idea of good clean tones are the clean tones recorded by Motown, Stax, Fame, and Muscle Shoals Sound. Those are warm, clean tones. However, there is an exception to this rule and that is the tones of Niles Rodgers. Niles is not a flashy guitarist, but he knows how to lay down a groove that very few guitarists can imitate. My other exception to the rule is Robert Cray.

That being said, what is up with the YATS (Yet Another Tele Slinger) doing hybrid picking videos? I almost "next" every video on YouTube that includes a Tele. Teles used to be difficult to give away. Now, they appear to be the "me too" hot lick for non-creative guitarists (I guess the draw of wanting to be a Nashville wannabe is too great). Maybe I am different, but Teles are just not that interesting to me other than they were Leo's first guitar. There are very few young guitarists who are not following a tried and true path, which is a shame.

We have a joke in our group of friends:
"First one to pick up their tele does the dishes."