Well that was irritating

[László]

Anyway, pursuing what the industry wants rather than what the artist inside you wants is a dead end IMO! Unless you are simply in it for the money.

Philosophical question:

Most people take their day jobs because they're in it for the money. Must the goal be different if your job is making music?

Discuss among yourselves. I ho' myself out to make music for ads. Which, I confess, I really like doing!

Have made a pretty good living at it for a long time, and my inner artist isn't unhappy.

 

[Chris50]

 

[Moondog Wily]

Philosophical question:

Most people take their day jobs because they're in it for the money. Must the goal be different if your job is making music?

Discuss among yourselves. I ho' myself out to make music for ads. Which, I confess, I really like doing!

Have made a pretty good living at it for a long time, and my inner artist isn't unhappy.

I apologize for any offense Mr. Les, and did not intend for that comment to disparage the will of making money via your musical talent! I do understand that there are plenty of gigs that require such a commitment and such is the lion's share of the music in this world. In other words, producing exactly what someone else wants rather than producing what you may produce of your own will and artistic creative process. So my comment was not that you should not do that (make music for money), nor that there is anything wrong with that. I simply feel it is not pure artistry at that point, considering that you are choosing to produce something that will make money rather than solely satisfy the artistic cravings of self. And I am not saying it can not do both! I do know for a fact that my friends in this band I had referenced when making that comment are doing that style of music to try and market to the business industry execs. Left to their own druthers, they would not be doing trap country. I might not want to invest in My Pillow for various reasons, but may look the other way if I can make some money, right?

I have been playing music since I was 7 years old and I realized in my early teens that music was my religion and I committed then to not letting it be compromised. I believe music is a language far superior to any other language invented or used by the human race. As a result of this, and watching my musical icon Frank Zappa fight his record company for artist rights, and the payola scandals of the 70's (pay to play), etc., I consciously chose to never pursue a career in music as I could not personally fathom letting money, fame, etc. alter my religious beliefs (that "Music is the best") and dictate what I do musically! BUT THAT IS ME! Music is NOT the religion of most people, they don't attach to it the ideals that I do. They don't eat the same as I do either! To each his own ;~))

This of course has led me to a life of doing work that I do not love nearly as much as music (accounting, computer programming, hot tar roofing in Florida middle of the summer in my 20's, insurance sales, etc.), but has kept pure to my religion, the intention and content of my musical endeavors. This attitude (and excessive drug use) also cost me a lot of time that I could have used to make music, but I have no regrets. What I do regret is, over my 5+ decades on this rock, I have written well over 1,000 songs and I have only produced and released about 75 of them. I have literally thought of thousands more that never even made it to paper. It was not until 2014 that I began bringing my songs to life. A mere 4 months after I made a commitment to start working on my music (and had put together a rough copy of my first album), I was in a car accident that shattered my left elbow. I did not know if I would ever be able to play a guitar again and wondered if this was a message from the universe. It did not matter to me all that much that I might not be able to play guitar again because I sucked then, and I only suck a little less now (and there are other instruments) but I bounced back and have grabbed the bull by the horns. Since then, I have released 2 albums and dozens of singles under 4 different artist/band names (different genres). My first album was sent out to college and indy radio stations across the country, and of the stations that reported plays back to me, I had 6 songs on that first album played on 15 radio stations in 10 states. Not bad for a rookie IMO especially considering I was the whole band (sampled horns and drums though), art team, marketing team, etc. But I don't consider that some great success. What I consider success is the fact that I made that music. I took the time to shape the visions in my head and build something with said visions. Apparently, some people enjoy it as well and chose to share it with others over FCC airwaves. Five weeks ago, I appeared on a local radio station here, and was allowed to play live one of my songs to the listeners. I was invited back the next week as well (but was not able to make it for that second show) and am on track to not only do some more live music on that station, but possibly get a volunteer position as a DJ (though I am not sure I want the commitment even though I have wanted my own radio station since I was a teenager). Fun, but not the end game of my process. My end game is getting this stuff out of my head and into a stream of airwaves that I find appealing. I listen to my music EVERY DAY, probably because it was music made by me, for me! If others enjoy what I do/say, so be it! If they want to pay me for it, so be it! And if they don't want to hear it and/or pay for it, so be it! I am having a blast turning the stuff that pops into my head, into tangible output, which I had never done in my adult life to any measurable level before 2014. Hell, I took a comment I made on a post here at the forum and turned it into a song (Giddy Up With A Whiskey Cup) in 17 minutes (lyrically). I then had to figure out how to play slide guitar which took me a couple of weeks (had never even tried to play slide before and as mentioned, I suck to begin with) to get what I wanted, but it happened and I am happy with it. I have been playing that song multiple times every day in the live set I have been putting together and it is one of my favorites to play!

I know, get off your high horse MW, right? I am simply stating who I am, and am not saying this is the way others need to or should be. Furthermore, the post I am responding to was presented as a "philosophical" question, so take all this in that vein! Everybody is different and chooses to do what they do for reasons they have justified in their minds, me included. I apologize again for posting a statement that some may read as disparaging or negative about their pursuits. It was not intended that way. Ultimately, I was just trying to respond to Mr. Aahzz's current situation and provide him with my opinionated support that a band who thinks your looks should be a reason to be in the band or not would cross a line for me. That would be the money line, because we all know that the beautiful people get picked first in the entertainment world because that is how you make money, appealing to the masses. I was trying to point out to him that IMO, the music is far more important than the financial or fan base success.

Happy creatin'!
MW

 

[Maxime Bousquet]

Obviously you are disappointed since you are sharing this with us.

Sometimes life sends us gifts, it just gave you one!

Don't waste your time with assholes.

 

[Aahzz]

Obviously you are disappointed since you are sharing this with us.

Sometimes life sends us gifts, it just gave you one!

Don't waste your time with assholes.

I am disappointed, in that I'm having a tough time finding a solid band right now. The said, I indeed agree that I dodged a bullet with this one. The band shall come....

 

[Roxanne]

Hang in there and good luck.
Rejection hurts, period.
Your are better off, moving on, than dealing with wannabees with messed up priorities.
The right band / members well turn up. Your have so much talent.

 

[László]

I apologize for any offense Mr. Les, and did not intend for that comment to disparage the will of making money via your musical talent! I do understand that there are plenty of gigs that require such a commitment and such is the lion's share of the music in this world. In other words, producing exactly what someone else wants rather than producing what you may produce of your own will and artistic creative process. So my comment was not that you should not do that (make music for money), nor that there is anything wrong with that. I simply feel it is not pure artistry at that point, considering that you are choosing to produce something that will make money rather than solely satisfy the artistic cravings of self. And I am not saying it can not do both! I do know for a fact that my friends in this band I had referenced when making that comment are doing that style of music to try and market to the business industry execs. Left to their own druthers, they would not be doing trap country. I might not want to invest in My Pillow for various reasons, but may look the other way if I can make some money, right?

I have been playing music since I was 7 years old and I realized in my early teens that music was my religion and I committed then to not letting it be compromised. I believe music is a language far superior to any other language invented or used by the human race. As a result of this, and watching my musical icon Frank Zappa fight his record company for artist rights, and the payola scandals of the 70's (pay to play), etc., I consciously chose to never pursue a career in music as I could not personally fathom letting money, fame, etc. alter my religious beliefs (that "Music is the best") and dictate what I do musically! BUT THAT IS ME! Music is NOT the religion of most people, they don't attach to it the ideals that I do. They don't eat the same as I do either! To each his own ;~))

This of course has led me to a life of doing work that I do not love nearly as much as music (accounting, computer programming, hot tar roofing in Florida middle of the summer in my 20's, insurance sales, etc.), but has kept pure to my religion, the intention and content of my musical endeavors. This attitude (and excessive drug use) also cost me a lot of time that I could have used to make music, but I have no regrets. What I do regret is, over my 5+ decades on this rock, I have written well over 1,000 songs and I have only produced and released about 75 of them. I have literally thought of thousands more that never even made it to paper. It was not until 2014 that I began bringing my songs to life. A mere 4 months after I made a commitment to start working on my music (and had put together a rough copy of my first album), I was in a car accident that shattered my left elbow. I did not know if I would ever be able to play a guitar again and wondered if this was a message from the universe. It did not matter to me all that much that I might not be able to play guitar again because I sucked then, and I only suck a little less now (and there are other instruments) but I bounced back and have grabbed the bull by the horns. Since then, I have released 2 albums and dozens of singles under 4 different artist/band names (different genres). My first album was sent out to college and indy radio stations across the country, and of the stations that reported plays back to me, I had 6 songs on that first album played on 15 radio stations in 10 states. Not bad for a rookie IMO especially considering I was the whole band (sampled horns and drums though), art team, marketing team, etc. But I don't consider that some great success. What I consider success is the fact that I made that music. I took the time to shape the visions in my head and build something with said visions. Apparently, some people enjoy it as well and chose to share it with others over FCC airwaves. Five weeks ago, I appeared on a local radio station here, and was allowed to play live one of my songs to the listeners. I was invited back the next week as well (but was not able to make it for that second show) and am on track to not only do some more live music on that station, but possibly get a volunteer position as a DJ (though I am not sure I want the commitment even though I have wanted my own radio station since I was a teenager). Fun, but not the end game of my process. My end game is getting this stuff out of my head and into a stream of airwaves that I find appealing. I listen to my music EVERY DAY, probably because it was music made by me, for me! If others enjoy what I do/say, so be it! If they want to pay me for it, so be it! And if they don't want to hear it and/or pay for it, so be it! I am having a blast turning the stuff that pops into my head, into tangible output, which I had never done in my adult life to any measurable level before 2014. Hell, I took a comment I made on a post here at the forum and turned it into a song (Giddy Up With A Whiskey Cup) in 17 minutes (lyrically). I then had to figure out how to play slide guitar which took me a couple of weeks (had never even tried to play slide before and as mentioned, I suck to begin with) to get what I wanted, but it happened and I am happy with it. I have been playing that song multiple times every day in the live set I have been putting together and it is one of my favorites to play!

I know, get off your high horse MW, right? I am simply stating who I am, and am not saying this is the way others need to or should be. Furthermore, the post I am responding to was presented as a "philosophical" question, so take all this in that vein! Everybody is different and chooses to do what they do for reasons they have justified in their minds, me included. I apologize again for posting a statement that some may read as disparaging or negative about their pursuits. It was not intended that way. Ultimately, I was just trying to respond to Mr. Aahzz's current situation and provide him with my opinionated support that a band who thinks your looks should be a reason to be in the band or not would cross a line for me. That would be the money line, because we all know that the beautiful people get picked first in the entertainment world because that is how you make money, appealing to the masses. I was trying to point out to him that IMO, the music is far more important than the financial or fan base success.

Happy creatin'!
MW

Willy, I wasn't the least bit upset. I've often pondered the situation where folks who haven't chosen the arts for their livelihood have ideas about what an artist should be, and I've asked myself the same thing.

Sometimes I wonder if they chose not to make art because they felt a day job was incompatible with being an artist. Not that I have an answer to this one, I don't.

It's an existential question, at least if you consider a life in the arts: What is an artist, anyway? What defines the life of an artist? Does one even have to do it full time? The great composer Charles Ives also ran an insurance company [heads up, 11Top!].

I've had discussions with my brother, who's a visual artist. He is more of a purist than me, though he did head up the fine arts department of a university until recently, and I guess you could call that an art day job?

Sometimes I think I'm an artist, and other times I think I'm merely artistic, if there can be such a distinction. Sometimes I feel like a craftsman, nothing more.

However, I do think there's an art to doing good session work, writing a track in a style I might not choose to otherwise write in, etc. In any case, I love what I do for a living, and can't imagine living another way.

So my question really was for open discussion. Rest assured, I took no offense. One possible answer is that if you're making art, you're an artist whether you call yourself one or not. Seems to me there's an awfully big grey area where things in this world are incapable of iron-clad definition, and "art" is one of them.

Another question that is very difficult to answer: What is art? My brother once argued that it was a matter of intent. If the creator or the work intends it to be art, it's art. It may or may not be good art, but it's art. Perhaps he's right, he's a helluva good artist, his paintings are astounding:

http://www.robertschefman.com/new-work---secrets-project.html

Would the paintings be less "art" if he'd received a commission to do them, with some client direction? I honestly don't think so.

So, if the A&R guy at the label says he wants, say, Americana with some sales appeal, and you create a great Americana song to that spec, are you making art? I think probably so.

 

[Moondog Wily]

Willy, I wasn't the least bit upset. I've often pondered the situation where folks who haven't chosen the arts for their livelihood have ideas about what an artist should be, and I've asked myself the same thing.

Sometimes I wonder if they chose not to make art because they felt a day job was incompatible with being an artist. Not that I have an answer to this one, I don't.

It's an existential question, at least if you consider a life in the arts: What is an artist, anyway? What defines the life of an artist? Does one even have to do it full time? The great composer Charles Ives also ran an insurance company [heads up, 11Top!].

I've had discussions with my brother, who's a visual artist. He is more of a purist than me, though he did head up the fine arts department of a university until recently, and I guess you could call that an art day job?

Sometimes I think I'm an artist, and other times I think I'm merely artistic, if there can be such a distinction. Sometimes I feel like a craftsman, nothing more.

However, I do think there's an art to doing good session work, writing a track in a style I might not choose to otherwise write in, etc. In any case, I love what I do for a living, and can't imagine living another way.

So my question really was for open discussion. Rest assured, I took no offense. One possible answer is that if you're making art, you're an artist whether you call yourself one or not. Seems to me there's an awfully big grey area where things in this world are incapable of iron-clad definition, and "art" is one of them.

Another question that is very difficult to answer: What is art? My brother once argued that it was a matter of intent. If the creator or the work intends it to be art, it's art. It may or may not be good art, but it's art. Perhaps he's right, he's a helluva good artist, his paintings are astounding:

http://www.robertschefman.com/new-work---secrets-project.html

Would the paintings be less "art" if he'd received a commission to do them, with some client direction? I honestly don't think so.

So, if the A&R guy at the label says he wants, say, Americana with some sales appeal, and you create a great Americana song to that spec, are you making art? I think probably so.

Understood and all good. I hope again that my statements were not being taken the wrong way. I think all music is art, whether you get paid for it or not. Hell, I think mother nature is the best artist I know of, so I have a very broad definition of art. I personally choose to keep my art as displaced from survival elements as I can because that is how I want it in my life. It makes me feel better about my art, and I am here to please me!!!

Happy art'ing!
MW