The low threshold to entry for guitar

[RossF]

I do sincerely hope none of that came across as intentionally off-putting or that I think less of anyone's abilities simply because they don't know theory.

It could be too deep. But I tried to break everything down to an accessible level that was mentioned earlier so these other options could be explored.

My reasoning for using a secondary dominant is basically to say what works over one chord out of context doesn't mean it will always work.

The first time I remember learning I couldn't just copy/paste licks over chord types was a long time before extensive study in music theory. Some minor chords I could play a solo note a whole step above the chord letter name it sounded cool and others sounded terrible. I couldn't tell you why or which ones but I could hear it as soon as it came out of the instrument only later to learn that trying to put a 9 on iii doesn't fit the key.


Aso phrygian dominant is a jam. One of my favorite things to use in blues right before you hit that IV.

I know you were well intended and just trying to be thorough. As I mentioned, I am not trying to be critical. But your audience is a guy who doesn't know theory. If you look at your post from his perspective he sees a ton of notes, doesn't understand the reasoning of when or why to use them.

For me, tackling theory was intimidating and daunting and I still probably don't know 1/2 of it. I needed it stripped down to the studs for my eyes to open. I think many people feel the same.

Again, just my take.

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

I know you were well intended and just trying to be thorough. As I mentioned, I am not trying to be critical. But your audience is a guy who doesn't know theory. If you look at your post from his perspective he sees a ton of notes, doesn't understand the reasoning of when or why to use them.

For me, tackling theory was intimidating and daunting and I still probably don't know 1/2 of it. I needed it stripped down to the studs for my eyes to open. I think many people feel the same.

Again, just my take.

Yes, to be honest, I was with him at first and then... "nah, I'm out." I get in this conversation every few years HOPING that there will be a revelation for me and I'll see something I'm missing that can make me better. It's not the potential difficulty of learning it that bothers me. It's that I've tried multiple times, and FOR ME I don't see where it would help me.

I will never be in a situation where knowing theory would help me get a gig. I wouldn't even be interested in one where that was a requirement. If I get asked to play it's because someone likes my playing not because I may be able to theorize a great solo. I've trusted my ear for 50 years. I ask some pointed questions in these threads to see if there is something I'm missing and always come to the conclusion that there is not.

That is why I always cite all the examples of various musicians I've known and either heard or played with over the years. The guy who knows every version of every chord ever but can't play a solo. He can sight read and play a song he's never heard, but can't make up a decent guitar solo over a song he knows well. And, he couldn't even believe that he could put on an album I've never heard and by the end of the first verse I could play along with it. The point being, we all have various things that "work" for us. And what works for someone else may not work or simply may not be needed, at all for others. Or my dad having a cold when he was supposed to sing a solo and going to mom right before church to say "move it down a whole step" and my mother looking at her music, transposing the key in her head and playing it flawlessly while "reading" it in the original key the whole time. Or my friend who knows theory inside out but can't play anything but basic solos...

I'd never be so smug to say that learning theory wouldn't maybe introduce something new to me that I ended up using. But I will say I've never had a problem coming up with solos no matter what key or what version of a chord or whatever else variables you can throw in. And, that every time I actually map out notes for something when someone is talking theory, I "learn" something that I already knew in my head. Meaning, without "knowing" all this "this goes with that" stuff, every time I sit and play out the notes, I laugh and say "yeah, that's what I would have played there," but I didn't need to know the theory to know that's what was right. And again, not trying to sound arrogant, just being honest. And who knows, maybe I had just enough theory or general training while I was a piano player as a child, that I didn't need to keep learning more when I switched to guitar, to make it work.

 

[Alnus Rubra]

See, again, I don’t understand this. At the end of one sentance you say “there was an expectation that you would just play what was written” but then you say “theory was mandatory…”. Playing what is written is just sight reading so how are you tying the need for theory into that? Or am I missing something? Meaning, maybe you have to play the music as written but you do have to take an unwritten solo part and you feel you needed the theory to know what to play on the solos. Is that what you’re saying there? Something like that might be what you mean… and I guess I could understand that if it is.

I’m referring to music theory in this instance as the language written on the stave, irrespective of whether it’s a note, chord, time, speed and feel (to name a few).

I understand that music theory has a much wider meaning than this.

 

[jak3af3r]

I’m referring to music theory in this instance as the language written on the stave, irrespective of whether it’s a note, chord, time, speed and feel (to name a few).

I understand that music theory has a much wider meaning than this.

I'd consider that notation.

I see theory as answering "what is this and why does it work."

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

I’m referring to music theory in this instance as the language written on the stave, irrespective of whether it’s a note, chord, time, speed and feel (to name a few).

I understand that music theory has a much wider meaning than this.

My point is, some may "need" to know theory to come up with a solo over a series of chords. Just like some can sight read and play a song they don't know, but they NEED that music written out, even for a song they know. And some can't improvise a solo at all, but if you write it out they could play it. I never taught myself to sight read chord sheets or solos. I put the album on and learned to play it by ear.

I am in fact poster child of the thread title! The "low threshold for entry" into guitar. That's me. Hack101.

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

And now I feel like that time I got talked into taking a music theory class in college.

 

[Bogner]

And now I feel like that time I got talked into taking a music theory class in college.

Just Pretend Julie Was In That Class And It Will Make It More Better For The Theories.

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

Just Pretend Julie Was In That Class And It Will Make It More Better For The Theories.

Well, I didn't actually get to TAKE the class. But if you didn't hear it when I told it a couple years ago, it's kinda funny.

 

[RossF]

Yes, to be honest, I was with him at first and then... "nah, I'm out." I get in this conversation every few years HOPING that there will be a revelation for me and I'll see something I'm missing that can make me better. It's not the potential difficulty of learning it that bothers me. It's that I've tried multiple times, and FOR ME I don't see where it would help me.

I will never be in a situation where knowing theory would help me get a gig. I wouldn't even be interested in one where that was a requirement. If I get asked to play it's because someone likes my playing not because I may be able to theorize a great solo. I've trusted my ear for 50 years. I ask some pointed questions in these threads to see if there is something I'm missing and always come to the conclusion that there is not.

That is why I always cite all the examples of various musicians I've known and either heard or played with over the years. The guy who knows every version of every chord ever but can't play a solo. He can sight read and play a song he's never heard, but can't make up a decent guitar solo over a song he knows well. And, he couldn't even believe that he could put on an album I've never heard and by the end of the first verse I could play along with it. The point being, we all have various things that "work" for us. And what works for someone else may not work or simply may not be needed, at all for others. Or my dad having a cold when he was supposed to sing a solo and going to mom right before church to say "move it down a whole step" and my mother looking at her music, transposing the key in her head and playing it flawlessly while "reading" it in the original key the whole time. Or my friend who knows theory inside out but can't play anything but basic solos...

I'd never be so smug to say that learning theory wouldn't maybe introduce something new to me that I ended up using. But I will say I've never had a problem coming up with solos no matter what key or what version of a chord or whatever else variables you can throw in. And, that every time I actually map out notes for something when someone is talking theory, I "learn" something that I already knew in my head. Meaning, without "knowing" all this "this goes with that" stuff, every time I sit and play out the notes, I laugh and say "yeah, that's what I would have played there," but I didn't need to know the theory to know that's what was right. And again, not trying to sound arrogant, just being honest. And who knows, maybe I had just enough theory or general training while I was a piano player as a child, that I didn't need to keep learning more when I switched to guitar, to make it work.

I feel you. That is where I was for a long time.

I tried to offer balance in my post that showed some people don't need theory like BB King, but trying to communicate what he knew was challenging for him. The communication is one big advantage to knowing theory, but that wasn't my motivation.

I avoided theory for a long time, because I didn't want to spend the time learning it and I really had no use for it in the cover band situation I was in. That changed when my brother lent me a tape by Frank Gambale called "Modes No More Mystery".

I started watching the tape and wasn't catching on, but I thought: " I will pick it up as I go". I was in a state of unconscious incompetence (I didn't know what I didn't know). About a half an hour into it I got to the point of conscious incompetence (I knew what I didn't know) and I was reeling. I knew this was something that I wasn't going to be able to pick up, it was going to take a lot of work.

I didn't know the Major Scale at the time. I mostly copied solos and mixed Maj/Min Pentatonic scales with the odd note thrown in here and there when it fit. I realized I was trying to learn the modes of the Major Scale, without knowing the Major scale and felt like an idiot. A depressed idiot. lol

Sadly I am not the type of person who learns things well or quickly if I don't have the basics sussed out in high granularity. I realize not everyone is like that (maybe you) and can probably pick things up via context, great ears or just natural ability. Not me. That It was a pee or get of the pot moment. I nearly quit playing guitar altogether to be honest, but I decided to pee instead. ;-)

I went out and brought a Yamaha GW 50 (sequencer) home on trial and just started slowly playing through the notes of C Major over C Major chord progressions. Right from the beginning I felt it was opening musical doors that were previously unavailable to me. But the clincher came when my wife knocked on the door the second night I had it and said "you should buy that thing". So I did. I eventually programmed chord progressions from the other modes into the sequencer and just started slowly picking up on the different flavours and learning to play over the chords.

There will always be lots to learn for me and I know that. But that was a big step and I have no regrets over the time I invested.

I always try to promote learning theory because it made a huge difference for me. I am like someone who learned there was actually no moon landing and want to share the knowledge with everyone who isn't there yet.

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

I always try to promote learning theory because it made a huge difference for me.

Warning. Long story!

I told part of this before, but here is my story about learning theory in college. My friend from previous story (singer in the band I was in during college, owned the Mesa Mark II, was a great front man, was in the college music and theater programs, that guy...) talked me into taking a music theory class in college. We had to take a certain amount of "arts" classes and I was BEYOND done with real "art" classes because I can't draw or paint ANYTHING!

So Dave convinces me to take a music theory class. We show up the first day of class and the teacher spends about 30 minutes going over the class objectives, what we'll cover, what we'll do, all that stuff. In front of the class is an upright piano and an acoustic guitar and Yamaha keyboard. After his 30 minute introduction, he goes around to each student asking what their primary instrument is, what other music classes they've had in college, what their "background" is in music, and how many instruments you can sight read music on. What prior classical training they've had, etc. (Anybody know where this is going?)

When he gets to me, I tell him that I've had no other music classes in college (this was my soph. year), that I'm not in the music program or the theater program and that I play guitar but I can only read music on piano. He looks at me and says "why are you in this class?" I said "to learn music theory." He says "but you can't read music on guitar?" I answered that I could actually figure out any of it, but no I could not just read it and play it while reading it. He asks how I got in the class... I said "what do you mean how did I get in the class. I signed up for it just like any other class." And he laughed at me. (This is where things go south, for those keeping score at home).

He said "so, you don't even have a basic understanding of music and you thought you could take a college music theory class so that you could start to learn music?" I replied "no, I took classical piano lessons for 10 years and was advanced for my age, but I switched to guitar a couple years ago." He very sarcastically said "so you took piano lessons as a child and thought you could take college level music theory class?" Needless to say... now I'm PISSED! I said, "by the time I was 12-13 I was playing Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, etc. I wasn't playing Mary Had A Little Lamb." Now he knows I'm pissed and he's embarrassed me, but he doesn't seem to mind. He says "But you can't even read music on guitar?" I said again "no, I said I can't sight read and play a song. I know basic chords, and can figure out anything but I play by ear so I normally don't even look at written music."

Well now I had said the magic words... "by ear" must be the magic words for a music professor. He laughed out loud. He called me to the front of the room and handed me the guitar and said "play a G chord." I did, then A, then D, then C then F... anyway, then he said "play a C major scale. I did. Then he said Am9 or something and I said I didn't know what version of the A that was, but could play it if I heard it OR could figure it out. Then he said MY magic words... he said "well, you appear to have at least a basic grasp of how to play guitar, but I still don't know why you think you're ready for a college level music theory class, and unfortunately they never should have let you sign up for the class without verifying that you were advanced enough to take the class." Then he said the magic words again... "you're a beginner level guitarist and aren't advanced enough to even take this class. What did you hope to gain by taking it?"



Story is too long. Sorry. But I was completely DONE with being embarrassed and called out in front of about 35 other students, most of which I knew. And, I was sitting there with his guitar in my hands. I said "well, maybe you can help me" and I played Eruption on the acoustic guitar. ( I know it's cliche' now but that's what you did in 1980 to show off on guitar. LOL) At the end, I got a big ovation from the class. I handed him the guitar and said "I was just hoping you could teach me how to play guitar. Sorry for wasting your time" and walked out of the class. He tried to call me back but I kept going.

That was my last experience with learning theory.

And will probably remain my "last" experience with learning theory.

 

[Moondog Wily]

Warning. Long story!

I told part of this before, but here is my story about learning theory in college. My friend from previous story (singer in the band I was in during college, owned the Mesa Mark II, was a great front man, was in the college music and theater programs, that guy...) talked me into taking a music theory class in college. We had to take a certain amount of "arts" classes and I was BEYOND done with real "art" classes because I can't draw or paint ANYTHING!

So Dave convinces me to take a music theory class. We show up the first day of class and the teacher spends about 30 minutes going over the class objectives, what we'll cover, what we'll do, all that stuff. In front of the class is an upright piano and an acoustic guitar and Yamaha keyboard. After his 30 minute introduction, he goes around to each student asking what their primary instrument is, what other music classes they've had in college, what their "background" is in music, and how many instruments you can sight read music on. What prior classical training they've had, etc. (Anybody know where this is going?)

When he gets to me, I tell him that I've had no other music classes in college (this was my soph. year), that I'm not in the music program or the theater program and that I play guitar but I can only read music on piano. He looks at me and says "why are you in this class?" I said "to learn music theory." He says "but you can't read music on guitar?" I answered that I could actually figure out any of it, but no I could not just read it and play it while reading it. He asks how I got in the class... I said "what do you mean how did I get in the class. I signed up for it just like any other class." And he laughed at me. (This is where things go south, for those keeping score at home).

He said "so, you don't even have a basic understanding of music and you thought you could take a college music theory class so that you could start to learn music?" I replied "no, I took classical piano lessons for 10 years and was advanced for my age, but I switched to guitar a couple years ago." He very sarcastically said "so you took piano lessons as a child and thought you could take college level music theory class?" Needless to say... now I'm PISSED! I said, "by the time I was 12-13 I was playing Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, etc. I wasn't playing Mary Had A Little Lamb." Now he knows I'm pissed and he's embarrassed me, but he doesn't seem to mind. He says "But you can't even read music on guitar?" I said again "no, I said I can't sight read and play a song. I know basic chords, and can figure out anything but I play by ear so I normally don't even look at written music."

Well now I had said the magic words... "by ear" must be the magic words for a music professor. He laughed out loud. He called me to the front of the room and handed me the guitar and said "play a G chord." I did, then A, then D, then C then F... anyway, then he said "play a C major scale. I did. Then he said Am9 or something and I said I didn't know what version of the A that was, but could play it if I heard it OR could figure it out. Then he said MY magic words... he said "well, you appear to have at least a basic grasp of how to play guitar, but I still don't know why you think you're ready for a college level music theory class, and unfortunately they never should have let you sign up for the class without verifying that you were advanced enough to take the class." Then he said the magic words again... "you're a beginner level guitarist and aren't advanced enough to even take this class. What did you hope to gain by taking it?"



Story is too long. Sorry. But I was completely DONE with being embarrassed and called out in front of about 35 other students, most of which I knew. And, I was sitting there with his guitar in my hands. I said "well, maybe you can help me" and I played Eruption on the acoustic guitar. ( I know it's cliche' now but that's what you did in 1980 to show off on guitar. LOL) At the end, I got a big ovation from the class. I handed him the guitar and said "I was just hoping you could teach me how to play guitar. Sorry for wasting your time" and walked out of the class. He tried to call me back but I kept going.

That was my last experience with learning theory.

And will probably remain my "last" experience with learning theory.

What a pompous a-hole of a teacher! People like that have no place in a position of advancing peoples interests. I know this is in retrospect, but it would have been fun to sit down at the piano after "Eruption" and bang out some Bach!!! Then tell him to put whatever piano sheet music he wants in front of you so you can shove his head up his arse ;~))

In high school, my algebra teacher HATED me! Being the biggest smart arse in the class is likely the reason for his vitriol, but he also knew that his class was a waste of time for me (I already knew all this stuff as I had done my older sisters algebra homework two years prior - which ultimately did not help her, my bad in that sense). I got nothing but A's on every single test/quiz/exam. I think I had maybe 3 or 4 questions wrong the entire year on all tests. He gave me a D in the class every quarter and final grade because I refused to do all the homework he assigned. My chemistry teacher was the exact opposite! He would hand out 50-75 page homework packets. They were truly works of art in both wordsmithing and the way he approached his lessons. Although I loved and read them, I never did all the work in them, and got straight A's in his class because that is the grade my test results warranted. Long and short, people are different, but if an educator does not want to work with the clay put in their hands. they have plenty of methods to ensure that student will be missing the education they were hired to provide!

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

What a pompous a-hole of a teacher! People like that have no place in a position of advancing peoples interests. I know this is in retrospect, but it would have been fun to sit down at the piano after "Eruption" and bang out some Bach!!! Then tell him to put whatever piano sheet music he wants in front of you so you can shove his head up his arse ;~))

At that point, I could still play piano quite well although I had quit practicing.

I left a few things out because the story was too long, but it was not the first or last time I encountered the "if you don't play classical music you are not a legitimate musician" mindset. Worse, I'm not the only one in my family to experience it. When my daughter was 16 we had a professional group sing at our church and one of their singers had heard my daughter sing at church camp, and actually asked her on stage to sing with them during the concert. After the concert they were discussing college and she told my daughter that a friend of hers was a music prof at the university my daughter had always wanted to go to (Miami of Ohio) and that she could probably get a scholarship if she got in their vocal program. My daughter set up an appointment to audition with the school but it was months after that as the concert was in spring and the next auditions weren't until the new school year started in fall.

That professor left Miami for another job and my daughter didn't know it. My daughter shows up for the audition and there are 12 other students there. She is supposed to go 5th. The first 4 people get up and sing opera tunes. It's her turn and she goes to the professor and tells her that she does not sing opera, that the former prof knew this and had heard her sing and personally invited her to come... but she didn't sing opera. And she showed her the song she brought with her to sing for the audition. The teacher told her to "go ahead and sing it, but we're only auditioning for our classical music program." Meaning, go ahead and sing but you aren't getting in. The song my daughter took to sing for the audition... "At Last" by Etta James. She said it strangely put her at ease knowing that she wasn't really under the microscope any more, so she cut loose. She said when the song started the other students were all looking around like "what is going on" but by 30 seconds in they were all cheering for her, after sitting in compete silence while the others sang. She sang her song and the prof wrote her a very nice thank you and even recommended her to a couple other schools where she knew the professors. She was very nice and very complimentary though, unlike my theory prof who was a jerk.

 

[Moondog Wily]

At that point, I could still play piano quite well although I had quit practicing.

I left a few things out because the story was too long, but it was not the first or last time I encountered the "if you don't play classical music you are not a legitimate musician" mindset. Worse, I'm not the only one in my family to experience it. When my daughter was 16 we had a professional group sing at our church and one of their singers had heard my daughter sing at church camp, and actually asked her on stage to sing with them during the concert. After the concert they were discussing college and she told my daughter that a friend of hers was a music prof at the university my daughter had always wanted to go to (Miami of Ohio) and that she could probably get a scholarship if she got in their vocal program. My daughter set up an appointment to audition with the school but it was months after that as the concert was in spring and the next auditions weren't until the new school year started in fall.

That professor left Miami for another job and my daughter didn't know it. My daughter shows up for the audition and there are 12 other students there. She is supposed to go 5th. The first 4 people get up and sing opera tunes. It's her turn and she goes to the professor and tells her that she does not sing opera, that the former prof knew this and had heard her sing and personally invited her to come... but she didn't sing opera. And she showed her the song she brought with her to sing for the audition. The teacher told her to "go ahead and sing it, but we're only auditioning for our classical music program." Meaning, go ahead and sing but you aren't getting in. The song my daughter took to sing for the audition... "At Last" by Etta James. She said it strangely put her at ease knowing that she wasn't really under the microscope any more, so she cut loose. She said when the song started the other students were all looking around like "what is going on" but by 30 seconds in they were all cheering for her, after sitting in compete silence while the others sang. She sang her song and the prof wrote her a very nice thank you and even recommended her to a couple other schools where she knew the professors. She was very nice and very complimentary though, unlike my theory prof who was a jerk.

I have 3 friends that graduated from Miami Of Ohio in the 80's! Sounds like that teacher handled your daughters situation with a bit of professionalism, but the whole "you don't know opera therefore you won't fit into our program" is still a craw in my side. If someone can sing well, it matters not what form of music, they can likely learn such nuances, which is what teachers are for.

So did your daughter find a program she liked? I wish her the best in her musical pursuits ;~))

 

[veinbuster]

I appreciate that some teachers are crap and some are excellent. Students can suffer if they get a bad teacher at the wrong time.

I do, however, believe that it is worth putting some of the burden of learning on the student. I would never let a bad teacher deprive me of learning something that I was interested enough in to sign up for the class in the first place.

 

[RossF]

Warning. Long story!

I told part of this before, but here is my story about learning theory in college. My friend from previous story (singer in the band I was in during college, owned the Mesa Mark II, was a great front man, was in the college music and theater programs, that guy...) talked me into taking a music theory class in college. We had to take a certain amount of "arts" classes and I was BEYOND done with real "art" classes because I can't draw or paint ANYTHING!

So Dave convinces me to take a music theory class. We show up the first day of class and the teacher spends about 30 minutes going over the class objectives, what we'll cover, what we'll do, all that stuff. In front of the class is an upright piano and an acoustic guitar and Yamaha keyboard. After his 30 minute introduction, he goes around to each student asking what their primary instrument is, what other music classes they've had in college, what their "background" is in music, and how many instruments you can sight read music on. What prior classical training they've had, etc. (Anybody know where this is going?)

When he gets to me, I tell him that I've had no other music classes in college (this was my soph. year), that I'm not in the music program or the theater program and that I play guitar but I can only read music on piano. He looks at me and says "why are you in this class?" I said "to learn music theory." He says "but you can't read music on guitar?" I answered that I could actually figure out any of it, but no I could not just read it and play it while reading it. He asks how I got in the class... I said "what do you mean how did I get in the class. I signed up for it just like any other class." And he laughed at me. (This is where things go south, for those keeping score at home).

He said "so, you don't even have a basic understanding of music and you thought you could take a college music theory class so that you could start to learn music?" I replied "no, I took classical piano lessons for 10 years and was advanced for my age, but I switched to guitar a couple years ago." He very sarcastically said "so you took piano lessons as a child and thought you could take college level music theory class?" Needless to say... now I'm PISSED! I said, "by the time I was 12-13 I was playing Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, etc. I wasn't playing Mary Had A Little Lamb." Now he knows I'm pissed and he's embarrassed me, but he doesn't seem to mind. He says "But you can't even read music on guitar?" I said again "no, I said I can't sight read and play a song. I know basic chords, and can figure out anything but I play by ear so I normally don't even look at written music."

Well now I had said the magic words... "by ear" must be the magic words for a music professor. He laughed out loud. He called me to the front of the room and handed me the guitar and said "play a G chord." I did, then A, then D, then C then F... anyway, then he said "play a C major scale. I did. Then he said Am9 or something and I said I didn't know what version of the A that was, but could play it if I heard it OR could figure it out. Then he said MY magic words... he said "well, you appear to have at least a basic grasp of how to play guitar, but I still don't know why you think you're ready for a college level music theory class, and unfortunately they never should have let you sign up for the class without verifying that you were advanced enough to take the class." Then he said the magic words again... "you're a beginner level guitarist and aren't advanced enough to even take this class. What did you hope to gain by taking it?"



Story is too long. Sorry. But I was completely DONE with being embarrassed and called out in front of about 35 other students, most of which I knew. And, I was sitting there with his guitar in my hands. I said "well, maybe you can help me" and I played Eruption on the acoustic guitar. ( I know it's cliche' now but that's what you did in 1980 to show off on guitar. LOL) At the end, I got a big ovation from the class. I handed him the guitar and said "I was just hoping you could teach me how to play guitar. Sorry for wasting your time" and walked out of the class. He tried to call me back but I kept going.

That was my last experience with learning theory.

And will probably remain my "last" experience with learning theory.

Wow, talk about an environment that is not conducive to learning and unprofessional academic conduct. Theory Snobs Gone Wild.

As a result I believe you may be suffering from PTSD. Post Theory Stress Disorder. Hang in there and try to forget. ;-)

 

[RossF]

I would never let a bad teacher deprive me of learning something that I was interested enough in to sign up for the class in the first place.

Neither would I. I would immediately drop the course and sign up in another prof's section.

 

[RickP]

I don’t read, though I’d love to know more than I do, and be more rangey in my playing. More words in the vocabulary help when the conversation gets complicated or technical. It’s clearly not necessary, but as clearly useful and beneficial to have all the theory under your belt. I’d like to continue learning as long as I’m drawing air.

 

[veinbuster]

Neither would I. I would immediately drop the course and sign up in another prof's section.

Unfortunately, that is often not an option.

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

I appreciate that some teachers are crap and some are excellent. Students can suffer if they get a bad teacher at the wrong time.

I do, however, believe that it is worth putting some of the burden of learning on the student. I would never let a bad teacher deprive me of learning something that I was interested enough in to sign up for the class in the first place.

The gist of it was, there is a certain level of knowledge you’re supposed to have before you’re allowed to sign up for the class and I didn’t have it. If he had said that nicely, I would’ve understood. but when he said, I was a beginner guitar player

When he first called me up there, I thought that he was calling me up to see how much I knew to see if I should be in the class or not, and maybe he really was. But there’s no question in my mind that the “by ear” part triggered him. And the “beginner “triggered me.

 

[veinbuster]

The gist of it was, there is a certain level of knowledge you’re supposed to have before you’re allowed to sign up for the class and I didn’t have it. If he had said that nicely, I would’ve understood. but when he said, I was a beginner guitar player

When he first called me up there, I thought that he was calling me up to see how much I knew to see if I should be in the class or not, and maybe he really was. But there’s no question in my mind that the “by ear” part triggered him. And the “beginner “triggered me.

I got that from the earlier post.
If someone chooses to have low expectations of me, I can choose to be offended, or take it as an opportunity to greatly exceed those expectations. Of course I have the advantage of not giving a **** what idiots think of me. It frees my mind to make an independent decision regarding whether or not I can learn something from them - granted, not always what they think they are teaching.