Locked in…..

[TheCraftsman]

How do you deal with getting “locked in” to a riff or progression when you’re writing and jamming? I feel like I have these noises in my head that won’t let me go until I get them down so every time I’m picking up the guitar it’s always there on the fingers, sure it evolves and it develops but how do you manage to “close the book” and think I’ll come back to that later with some fresh ideas / ears etc…

 

[Black Plaid]

I try not to let it bother me, just go with the flow.

That said, the easiest way to get "done" with something is to put a ton of effort into recording it, eventually you just get tired of working on it and end up moving on.

 

[TheCraftsman]

Yeah I’ve got two or three tracks that are all different that I keep pushing every night, multi tracking in Logic and sometimes it’s great but sometimes it just feels like “I need to back burner this for a while and come back to it”

 

[Lola]

Self discipline and change your pattern of thought. If I get an invasive thought in my head I just redirect my thinking. It works. It’s just a matter of forcing yourself to do it. You have to or that song will grind your gears for a while. Just don’t let it happen.

 

[markd21]

I record everything when I am working through ideas. I was in the studio last night starting Part IV of my epic song. I have Parts 1-3 done. The goal is to create a continuous song that nears an hour in length. Here is the process that I used to start building riffs and ideas.

1. I picked a topic/concept. Knowing that the concept is dark, I chose to work in a set of different tunings than I normally would use. I set my guitars up for C# Standard, Drop B, and Open B (open G in C# Standard). Then, I chose a key to work in - C#m.

2. Next, considering the dark concept, I chose a genre to work with. Being a rock guy, I decide on the doom/stoner genre. Blues riffs sound killer in C#.

3. Next I chose a tempo. This had to be a tempo that "fit" genre parameters, and allowed me the freedom to move up/down in feel based on adding or subtracting to the subdivisions in the beat. I chose 105BPM.

4. From there, I (sorry to be mildly insulting - this step is obvious, lol) create my Pro Tools project. I already have a template setup that gives me all my drums on their own tracks, the subgroups, aux buses, and mono audio tracks assigned to the proper interface inputs. This saves a TON of time. I highly recommend this step if you wanna be able to create on the fly.

5. At this point, I start looking for a groove to inspire me in EZDrummer. For this piece of music I decided to experiment with swing time.

6. Once I have a groove that "feels" cool, I start riffing. I always hit record at this point. I am looking for a riff that jumps out as something that could hook people in.

7. Once I have a riff that meets that requirement, I activate a second track and play variations on the riff to see if I can "improve" on it. Sometimes this is adding embellishments, other times it is only tightening up the playing. Once the riff is "improved" I record the second track.

8. At this point I go back and record over the first rack with a tighter take of the riff. I keep those riffs doubled.

9. Here I go back into EZDrummer and add another 4-8 bars into the song. Basically, this is a repeat of step 6.

10. At this point the task is to find a riff or progression that can build off the opening riff(s) without changing key or being too boring (i.e., I-IV-V) and predictable. Those "predictable" progressions work great for a chorus or hook. Save them! Unless the music calls for it...

11. From here I repeat steps 6-10 until the song structure is completed. At this point my project looks messy because every section is on different tracks, so I consolidate the riffs into one continuous track. I might have 12-15 individual riffs doubled - so 24 o 30 tracks that get bounced to 2. Much easier to look at and manage!!

12. Next step is laying down the bass guitars. To get going on this, I loop sections and play. I try NOT to always follow the guitar riff - but sometimes that's what is easiest. If I DO follow the guitar, then I will go back and try to work a riff variation on guitar to go on top of what's already there.

13. Here are some "extras" that I do in certain cases. If I want to modulate keys within the song, I go back to my key signature and look at available scale degrees/chord options. I come off the riff/progression and try different chords/degrees until I find something I like. Most of the time it is a standard half-step or whole-step move.

However, with the piece I am currently working on my movement between Parts is based on modal movements. I am looking at the various modes and the tonalities they impart of the music I am creating for the concept. I know each will work since they are scale variations off C# minor.

And to give an example of what I am talking about, here is Parts 1-3 of my epic. Beware - the sub sonics (sub bass) on this mix are awful. If you run your monitor system with a lot of bass or have a sub, PLEASE turn it down. I have a sub on order to help me get it under control when I do the final mix. This is a test run, lol....

https://soundcloud.com/hallowed-illusions%2Fdreams-of-life-before-death-parts-1-3

 

[Lola]

Wow you are beyond creative! I just have a very simple creative process. I sit, I have a song in my head, I play it while I record and tweak it where necessary.

I should get into more of the technical aspects of recording but this works very well for me.

 

[deathworlder]

How do you deal with getting “locked in” to a riff or progression when you’re writing and jamming? I feel like I have these noises in my head that won’t let me go until I get them down so every time I’m picking up the guitar it’s always there on the fingers, sure it evolves and it develops but how do you manage to “close the book” and think I’ll come back to that later with some fresh ideas / ears etc…

I don't with original material. I have a frame-work, but it's always a work-in-progress. I've just come to accept it.
It kind of of surprises me, as one of my favorite genres is symphonic metal.
It's not above my ability to play it with exacting percision each time; it just gets boring and stale. I think it keeps it fresh and exciting for me.

 

[Greywolf]

We all hit ruts and walls in our playing . I typically grab a different instrument and lay down a track from that perspective (drums, bass, keys, fiddle, harp,kalimba)

 

[Lola]

I don't with original material. I have a frame-work, but it's always a work-in-progress. I've just come to accept it.
It kind of of surprises me, as one of my favorite genres is symphonic metal.
It's not above my ability to play it with exacting percision each time; it just gets boring and stale. I think it keeps it fresh and exciting for me.

Old Night Wish is amazing symphonic metal. This is my absolute favourite song of theirs. What a voice!!

 

[markd21]

I love Nightwish!!! Personally, Ever Dream is the tune that moves me!

 

[TheCraftsman]

I record everything when I am working through ideas. I was in the studio last night starting Part IV of my epic song. I have Parts 1-3 done. The goal is to create a continuous song that nears an hour in length. Here is the process that I used to start building riffs and ideas.

1. I picked a topic/concept. Knowing that the concept is dark, I chose to work in a set of different tunings than I normally would use. I set my guitars up for C# Standard, Drop B, and Open B (open G in C# Standard). Then, I chose a key to work in - C#m.

2. Next, considering the dark concept, I chose a genre to work with. Being a rock guy, I decide on the doom/stoner genre. Blues riffs sound killer in C#.

3. Next I chose a tempo. This had to be a tempo that "fit" genre parameters, and allowed me the freedom to move up/down in feel based on adding or subtracting to the subdivisions in the beat. I chose 105BPM.

4. From there, I (sorry to be mildly insulting - this step is obvious, lol) create my Pro Tools project. I already have a template setup that gives me all my drums on their own tracks, the subgroups, aux buses, and mono audio tracks assigned to the proper interface inputs. This saves a TON of time. I highly recommend this step if you wanna be able to create on the fly.

5. At this point, I start looking for a groove to inspire me in EZDrummer. For this piece of music I decided to experiment with swing time.

6. Once I have a groove that "feels" cool, I start riffing. I always hit record at this point. I am looking for a riff that jumps out as something that could hook people in.

7. Once I have a riff that meets that requirement, I activate a second track and play variations on the riff to see if I can "improve" on it. Sometimes this is adding embellishments, other times it is only tightening up the playing. Once the riff is "improved" I record the second track.

8. At this point I go back and record over the first rack with a tighter take of the riff. I keep those riffs doubled.

9. Here I go back into EZDrummer and add another 4-8 bars into the song. Basically, this is a repeat of step 6.

10. At this point the task is to find a riff or progression that can build off the opening riff(s) without changing key or being too boring (i.e., I-IV-V) and predictable. Those "predictable" progressions work great for a chorus or hook. Save them! Unless the music calls for it...

11. From here I repeat steps 6-10 until the song structure is completed. At this point my project looks messy because every section is on different tracks, so I consolidate the riffs into one continuous track. I might have 12-15 individual riffs doubled - so 24 o 30 tracks that get bounced to 2. Much easier to look at and manage!!

12. Next step is laying down the bass guitars. To get going on this, I loop sections and play. I try NOT to always follow the guitar riff - but sometimes that's what is easiest. If I DO follow the guitar, then I will go back and try to work a riff variation on guitar to go on top of what's already there.

13. Here are some "extras" that I do in certain cases. If I want to modulate keys within the song, I go back to my key signature and look at available scale degrees/chord options. I come off the riff/progression and try different chords/degrees until I find something I like. Most of the time it is a standard half-step or whole-step move.

However, with the piece I am currently working on my movement between Parts is based on modal movements. I am looking at the various modes and the tonalities they impart of the music I am creating for the concept. I know each will work since they are scale variations off C# minor.

And to give an example of what I am talking about, here is Parts 1-3 of my epic. Beware - the sub sonics (sub bass) on this mix are awful. If you run your monitor system with a lot of bass or have a sub, PLEASE turn it down. I have a sub on order to help me get it under control when I do the final mix. This is a test run, lol....

https://soundcloud.com/hallowed-illusions%2Fdreams-of-life-before-death-parts-1-3

Epic breakdown man, thank you. It seems our methods don’t vary too much in laying stuff down, also I tend to record most stuff as more than once I’ve hit a riff and by the time I’m done I’m thinking what was that?

My main issue is going down the rabbit hole of the song / track getting a hold of me and not letting me go or play other things, it just drags me back like an unfinished argument, not always, but when it does man it’s tough to break out of it and think I’ll come back to this with a fresh mind …

 

[Lola]

I love Nightwish!!! Personally, Ever Dream is the tune that moves me!

I like that one too but this really showcases the singers dynamic talents IMHO.

My oldest son turned me on to this band. He loves metal. He’s always searching for obscure European metal bands and when he finds a gem he will send it to me to see what I think.

 

[gush]

I get "attached" to a riff sometimes and I try REALLY hard to not do that.

I try to remember that not everybody will appreciate the riff as much as I do at that moment.

I usually camp out at that riff for a while and give myself time to really decide if it's worth hanging on to.

I will mute that track and explore other ideas to see if something else clicks.

I can't recall how many times I've put together a bunch of tracks thinking they'll flip when they hear this one only to not hear that track in the final product.

Hurts a little but I never let it bother me too much.....it's just business.

 

[deathworlder]

Old Night Wish is amazing symphonic metal. This is my absolute favourite song of theirs. What a voice!!

My favorite symphonic metal band.
I tend to favor the Floor-era music, though. I believe Tuomas's compositions flourished in leaps and bounds with her vocal ability. This is not to say, Tarja is/was not a badass. My ear just can't do the operatic inflection for every song.

ETA-Annete-era Nightwish compositions were more to my tastes as well. It's my belief, freeing one's self from expectations, whether self-imposed or external, leads to avenues of creativity one would have never explored, otherwise.
You can never have enough tools in the toolbox; sometimes you have to retire the old ones. It doesn't mean they weren't great tools.

 

[Juan Luis Vidal]

For me putting some distance is the key. Sometimes it's hard to differentiate between something fun to play and something fun to listen. I grew attached to certain riffs or ideas just because they were challenging or involved some smart tricks, whereas I was eager to dismiss certain other riffs jut because they were not demanding or "guitar-show-off" enough. So I'd usually record the track, forget it for a while and listen back to it under a listener point of view and sometimes I'd find surprises regarding what would be fun to listen and what would not.

And in any case, as with writing or painting, you never really finish a song...you just decide it's ok to release it as it is.

 

[Juan Luis Vidal]

Old Night Wish is amazing symphonic metal. This is my absolute favourite song of theirs. What a voice!!

Great memories! I saw them live in...98? 99? One of the very first concerts I attended...they had just released Ocenborn and were the opening act for a legendary German metal act, Rage. Great moments for being a metalhead

 

[CandidPicker]

If ever it feels like being stuck in a rut, my choice is to hang up the guitar and turn off the TV, gear, and music, and go for a long walk or a scenic drive.

It's a valid technique described in a book called, "The Artist's Way", by Julie Cameron.

Spending time outdoors with your local bike trail, or walking path allows your frontal and medial cortex to take in the sights and sounds of nature. Doing this every so often rejuvenates your visual memories, as well as your "creative juices." A drive works likewise, but if you're like me, my mind can't process things moving past me at a good rate of speed easily, so driving to a scenic area and walking for 25 to 40 minutes stimulates the endorphins and helps clear the head of residual stress or "mental clutter" one might have experienced on a busy day.

It's vital important that we all try this every so often, because not doing so can lead to job burnout and dissatisfaction with life. Combine that with any notable health problem and that's a recipe for calling it quits.

Not on my watch. As weather cooperates, spending time taking in the sights and sounds of life can and will recharge your creative batteries.

 

[Lola]

If ever it feels like being stuck in a rut, my choice is to hang up the guitar and turn off the TV, gear, and music, and go for a long walk or a scenic drive.

It's a valid technique described in a book called, "The Artist's Way", by Julie Cameron.

Spending time outdoors with your local bike trail, or walking path allows your frontal and medial cortex to take in the sights and sounds of nature. Doing this every so often rejuvenates your visual memories, as well as your "creative juices." A drive works likewise, but if you're like me, my mind can't process things moving past me at a good rate of speed easily, so driving to a scenic area and walking for 25 to 40 minutes stimulates the endorphins and helps clear the head of residual stress or "mental clutter" one might have experienced on a busy day.

It's vital important that we all try this every so often, because not doing so can lead to job burnout and dissatisfaction with life. Combine that with any notable health problem and that's a recipe for calling it quits.

Not on my watch. As weather cooperates, spending time taking in the sights and sounds of life can and will recharge your creative batteries.

I agree totally. I went roller skating for an hour this aft after we finished the yard work. Just me, my favorite tunes and my roller skates. So rejuvenating. I also take the dogs for marathon walks now that the weather is getting nice. Being active and doing things for me is where I am at atm. I have paid my dues and then some. I have to also go get my busking permit for the beach again. When I play at the beach every problem just melts away. I play exactly what I want to(don’t have listen to the other band members b*tch and complain because I am not in a band anymore) it’s just about enjoying life now and I don’t work right now. A mini vacation. And I am loving. My husband is in the kitchen making home made pizzas while I hang out with my pups. Life is so much better now without the stress of my toxic job and my bimbo of a boss.