Core CE Tremolo replacement / repair

[CEnoodler]

I've got a 1996 CE22 with tremolo that I've owned for 20 plus years now. I'm getting back into my guitar playing a little bit after many years of not so much and so I'm trying to get my old CE into good reliable playing condition. I just had a fret level and re-crown done along with a "setup" but I am still having poor tuning stability. I have always been wary of my guitar being messed with over the years as I have read about the knife edges getting messed up on these trems. Despite my efforts vetting the luthier, in the end I chose to trust them with the guitar and sure enough got it back with the fulcrum screws having been messed with and the trem installed incorrectly despite me wanting them to leave it alone!! When I went to pick it up the trem plate was obviosly not even seated into the grooves in the screws! I had them try again insisting they use the John Mann video for installation. I then also checked it myself later at my next string change.

All told tuning stability was not great before I dropped it off and knowing how I treated the whammy back in the day it might be expected that my trem was shot anyways.

I just installed a Tremel-no as I am sick of the lack of ability to hold tune and I also have a desire to be able to change tunings sometimes. I've enjoyed playing it with the trem locked out but there is a little bit of a soft tiny "thunk" in the bridge when doing bends and using wide vibrato. To me, this is further evidence I may need a new bridge. I haven't disassembled it yet as this is my only electric and I want to have parts and a plan before I take it apart.

It looks like my options for a replacement are the John Mann two piece for $200, PRS replacement which is selling for $290, or keep watching for a used trem which of course will be hard to guarantee the condition of. It looks like the Mann 2000NOS is maybe the best unit to get but I don't see any available online. Any reason to go for the PRS branded unit? I would prefer to keep the guitar as original as possible and don't love that the Mann unit is engraved with the brand name although I can probably get over that since that is probably a silly concern.

I had replacement fulcrum screws on order with the thought of replacing those and hoping that maybe my trem plate is still ok although not sure I can count on that. Any thoughts?

Further advice needed in that while I was re-checking the fulcrum screw heights per the John Mann installation video, one of the screws turns far too easily in it's hole in the body. It is not firm enough to trust that the screw won't walk around on it's own. It is not stripped and don't know how it could be, but I think something needs to be done to firm it's grasp in the hole. I am kind of nervous about this situation because of course the last thing I want is to mess up threaded holes in the body. My thought is to lightly coat a screw in some wood glue, maybe with some sawdust and run it into the hole and remove it, let it dry, then check a screw threads properly and then do the final install. Thoughts? I still don't love this plan because maybe then I could have too much difficulty threading a screw and I really don't want to strip the threads in the body.

Lastly I am wondering if anyone has any ideas on how to get the trem plate perfectly flat with the body on a carved top guitar for the fulcrum screw installation? The Mann video describes installation on a flat-topped SE model. I held my bridge as flat as I could while setting up the screws but it was hard to be confident that I had it perfectly flat and stable as I went, it seemed like it had a tendency to rock around a little bit... Sorry this is so long-winded but this guitar is one of my prized possessions and I can't see any reason it can't be brought back to 100%! Big thanks if you read through and are able to help any!

 

[Alnus Rubra]

I believe the most common culprit for tuning issues is the nut in many cases.

I also think that the area underneath the tremolo will be flat.

As far as the other things you speak of, I’ll let someone else chip in.

 

[CEnoodler]

I believe the most common culprit for tuning issues is the nut in many cases.

I also think that the area underneath the tremolo will be flat.

As far as the other things you speak of, I’ll let someone else chip in.

I don't disagree about the nut. I am still on the original. My biggest problem is after bending strings they return quite flat sometimes. This still happens after they should be stretched in I would think, maybe I need to look more at that? Sometimes all strings are a little off. I have lubricated the nut with D'Addario lube and pencil graphite. I have wondered if light passes with abrasive cord might do anything good for the nut?

 

[SGH5150]

Where are you located? If you are anywhere near the greater Baltimore area I highly recommend swinging by Bill’s Music in Catonsville and ask for Ron to take a look at it. Dude is a wizard. Found him after a recommendation from a band mate and his work is absolutely flawless.

 

[Rider1260]

First the body is flat between the pickups so just remove the strings and springs, Then I would remove all the screws for a full inspection of the knife edges on the trem and the screw slots, the unit is much tougher that most give it credit for.
As for the nut, see if it is full of gunk. non of my PRS need and lube to have stable tuning.
If I have not played one of mine for a bit it takes some heavy trem use and tuning up to pitch to get it settled in again
The screws on all my PRS that I have ever adjusted move really easily, I have never had one move under string tension
If your near Chicago I can look at it for you

 

[CEnoodler]

To answer the previous two posts I am in central Missouri, so almost close to Chicago but still a bit far, but thanks for the offer to look at it! I imagine there has to be a good shop in St. Louis but it seems the problem without third party recommendations is that you never really know what you are going to get. I get the impression that many out there still just assume the PRS can be handled the same way as a Fender six screw.

That is encouraging that maybe the trem is not as bad as I fear because I would of course prefer to keep the original. One other little detail I forgot is that one of the screws, in fact I think the somewhat loose one, has a kind of misshapen head on it, like a manufacturing defect. You could tell when I had the screws raised that they did have some wear to the grooves so maybe now the knife edges are just not seated in their original spots in the screw grooves. Maybe I will stick to my original thought and the recommendation here and pull the unit to inspect the knife edges and if they are even enough and not too mangled maybe try re-installing with the fresh screw set and go from there.

 

[gush]

To answer the previous two posts I am in central Missouri, so almost close to Chicago but still a bit far, but thanks for the offer to look at it! I imagine there has to be a good shop in St. Louis but it seems the problem without third party recommendations is that you never really know what you are going to get. I get the impression that many out there still just assume the PRS can be handled the same way as a Fender six screw.

That is encouraging that maybe the trem is not as bad as I fear because I would of course prefer to keep the original. One other little detail I forgot is that one of the screws, in fact I think the somewhat loose one, has a kind of misshapen head on it, like a manufacturing defect. You could tell when I had the screws raised that they did have some wear to the grooves so maybe now the knife edges are just not seated in their original spots in the screw grooves. Maybe I will stick to my original thought and the recommendation here and pull the unit to inspect the knife edges and if they are even enough and not too mangled maybe try re-installing with the fresh screw set and go from there.

I'm in SE Iowa. If you ever get this way I can take a quick look at it.

I've installed mann trems on a couple of my guitars. I've got a couple of tips on setting up trem screws.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Call John Mann, do not email him, call him, and ask when you can buy a 2000 NOS trem. He’s kinda old school, mercilessly generous with his time (when he has it) and will help you out getting a trem and/or parts.

There is zero benefit to buying the PRS replacement (for more money). If you are gonna pony up cash for a trem get the best: 2000 NOS. It’ll come with all the parts you need.

May as well buy a new nut (pack of 2) while you’re at it. It’s easy enough to replace if you’re mildly handy and have sandpaper and superglue. You can widen the slots with a folded piece of sandpaper and/or massage the slots with the next size up strings by sliding them back and forth (gently).

CE’s (old) are rad guitars, get it working properly.

 

[John Mann]

Call / email me directly.
If your bridge is damaged, most times I can fix it. Otherwise I have replacement option available.

BTW... another batch of 2000NOS bridges is in process and should be available Q1 - 2022

 

[John Mann]

well... things running a bit behind... June 2022 hopefully...